and I’ve made a couple really, really good female friends.

Do tell us more! or is this the sort of thing some of the women don’t like? 😀

Brant – how can you say such a thing? I got into bikes by watching my kids have so much fun and thought ‘I want some of that’. It started off as cross-training and took second-place to my former main sport. My ex certainly did not ride bikes … and couldn’t understand why a woman wanted to 😳

I was the ‘uncool’ mum at the school gates on a filthy mountain bike, no way could I be a ‘yummy mummy’ 😆

This is a great place to hang out – feel as though I’ve met half the forum now!

I don’t post on here that often because of some of the things I read I find offensive.

As so aptly demonstrated by Drac’s post just above yours – I did wonder how long it would take!

As I said, you have to develop a thick skin 😉

Drac’s alright though, he answered a thread the other day with some useful info for me.

I thought this was a women’s forum?

Brant – how can you say such a thing?

Because you were the uncool mum at the school gates. As you say. Exception.

I’m not saying you don’t exist, and I’m sure you don’t need “helping out” with a “women only” forum as you’re a cyclist as much as the rest of us.

Maybe the answer is to have a separate “women’s” section to the forum, but to mix the threads in with the bike and chat threads on the front page. That way those like me who tend to just browse the forum front page will pick it up anyway, so it will get input from all, but the women specific threads will also be collected together if you so wish. Whoever starts the thread then has the option of selecting “women” instead of “bike” or “chat” if they want. Democracy* at work – if the separate forum works it will get used, if not it won’t and will die a natural death.

If you go for that option, it would be handy to enable paging of the combined forum page so that we can go back through the combined bike/chat/women threads in the same way we could in the old days.

* not that I’m the biggest ever fan of democracy.

No. No. No.

Mrs splatz works as a mtb guide. She has always been an athlete. We started biking at the same time and on good days I can just about keep up with her.

We go for the bike forum mostly not the other stuff so don’t need to be segregated.

What is point separate groups?

Well the consensus from the emails we’ve had and here on this thread seems to be to not create a womens’ forum. But I don’t want the discussion to stop. Thanks for everyone’s input on this so far.

A women only forum is only valid if womens’ thoughts and perspectives on mountain biking differs so much from mens and cannot be answered on an open forum. I wouldn’t like to see this site and forum members “united in mountain biking but divided by sex”.

However, a womens’ bike related technical forum might be amusing. 🙂

crap idea, and solving a problem that you “think” exists, but I don’t think does.

Someone hit the nail on the head earlier, it’s the nerdiness that’s off-putting, it’s the “show me girls on bikes cos I’m in love with them” etc type that suggests people have nothing in their life other than bikes and riding, and can’t understand why others don’t regard bikes as the be all and end all.

There’s some sharp people on here, some with great humour, some with humour bypasses, and there’s without doubt some utter ****ts – it’s them you need to deal with to make this place more open to everyone.

I wouldn’t like to see it. I still don’t think I like the fact that off-topic and bike chat got divided! The beauty of STW is its simplicity.

It’s clear that men would still read the women’s chat from time to time so this would still put off the same people afraid to post here. There’s no point publishing anything on the internet unless you’re comfortable with the world seeing it. I think the only people using it would be the same girls who already post here. And a bunch of nosey blokes.

And are there really enough female specific topics about biking other than what clothes/kit?

What could be an idea is to have a label on posts which you could select for it to be highlighted as of particular interest to women – maybe appearing in pink or something? Much like the way you can set a priority tag to an email. I’ve seen it done on other forums but I’m not sure it’s an easy technical task on this software.

highlighted as of particular interest to women – maybe appearing in pink or something?

Erm… 😯

and there’s without doubt some utter ****ts – it’s them you need to deal with to make this place more open to everyone

There are still too many blokes making unacceptable sexist comments. Even on something like ‘Friday A+A’; saying something like ‘ooh, she’s a healthy young lady/has a very nice bottom’ is fine, no need to go any further, really, I think we all know what’s implied. Stuff like ‘go out for a bike ride’ is way ott. Some blokes need to put their dicks away, and start thinking with their brains, if they can possibly manage that. Just shows immature inadequacy, really. Don’t see any of the ladies making similarly vulgar and disgusting comments on ‘Friday Sexy Bloke’.

Same goes for the homophobic attitudes of some people, as well. Some of that is just plain ignorant and nasty.

Hora needs to be gelded. I will gladly do this, for the good of all on STW.

you are on thin ice there sfb

don’t you think I was fully aware of that ?
(and RudeBoy, I said “if” advisedly 🙂

I don’t want to drag up obvious arguments about needless discrimination, but I think crazy-legs (out of the mouths of babes) summed it up very well – the simplicity of this forum is its best feature, and I like the way the new composite front page merges the posts from the 2 sections, harking back to how it used to be.

Stuff like ‘go out for a bike ride’ is way ott.

totally agree, this kind of remark demeans us all 🙁

So, tighter moderation? Crack down on the inappropriate comments like that? Is that the way to go?

Stuff like ‘go out for a bike ride’ is way ott.

Though is part and parcel of the furniture of the forum now, along with “pwn him with bombers” and “piss in his shoes”, “what tyres for”, “ur bik is Saracin” and “Inbred”

Doesn’t mean it can’t be moderated though. Every day’s a new day.

A phrase used as a euphemism for an explicit sexual act is hardly the same as something silly like ‘wee in his shoes’, is it? Would ‘f- her up the arse’ be any more acceptable? I don’t see why such terms should be part and parcel of the forum. Besides, it breaks forum rules, actually!

No need to be Victorian, but I think most people would accept there is a standard of behaviour that we would adhere to in a ‘real’ situation, and therefore should on here.

It’s about striking a balance between having fun, and not offending people. I do believe that a certain amount of self-moderation can work; I do remember a period where certain ignorant, racist and bigoted comments were made on here, without much challenge. Not really really bad, but still offensive. This was challenged frequently, and I’m glad to see that such comments are very rare, these days, as it seems most people have agreed there is no place for such language or attitude. I think the same efforts need to be made to make women, and indeed any other ‘minority’ user group feel welcome and safe.

STW does a bloody good job at keeping things within a happy medium. But there’s always room for a little improvement.

So, if fellers can praps be a little more thoughtful, then I’m sure there won’t be too many problems.

Mark – a thought about why your Facebook page attracts a higher percentage of female users than your forum. It could be simply that Facebook is a much more appealing web environment to women than a traditional web forum. You could flip it the other way and ask if the proportion of women is higher there because the men who post here are less inclined to use Facebook than the women?

Crack down on the inappropriate comments like that?

I can hardly speak for the women, but I think remarks like that should not be tolerated – they are not funny but merely brutish 🙁

brant – Member

Stuff like ‘go out for a bike ride’ is way ott.

Though is part and parcel of the furniture of the forum now, along with “pwn him with bombers” and “piss in his shoes”, “what tyres for”, “ur bik is Saracin” and “Inbred”

Doesn’t mean it can’t be moderated though. Every day’s a new day.

Agreed with Brant. Things evolve, but tighter moderation isn’t the way in my opinion. If I’m honest, reading this thread has highlighted the usual self-appointed moderators, the people that always want to say the right thing and suck up to the owners, and those that sing to the tune de jour.

In some ways the new forum appears to have broken up some of the cliques that were pretty evident, but overall, if you want to put the monster back in the cage, it’s probably too late.

the people that always want to say the right thing and suck up to the owners

I don’t think I can be accused of THAT :o)

OK, for a slightly different perspective, as a someone who has previously used the Shecycles Forum, here’s ome of my thoughts as to why, for some, a women’s biking forum was appreciated:

1. Firstly it’s not an ‘either / or situation – I used both the Shecycles and Singletrack forums in different ways

2. Sheecycles was good for being able arrange rides with other women without having go through the usual comments about ‘why do want a women’s only ride … what’s wrong with you’ etc (for the record, I ride mainly with guys or in mixed groups, therefore just occassionally it’s nice to ride with other women – let’s face it that’s quite unusaul in the UK)

3. When I asked about bikes / kit etc I’d get responses from other women, rather than replies from guys about ‘my wife / gf etc uses this’ (which although interesting aren’t the same as getting replies from women bikers themselves)

4. There was a different atmosphere, without any innuendo or sexism – I’m no delicate flower but sometimes it’s just nice to have a space / forum that doesn’t ever have that.

Overall, I’ve found the above responses rather disappointing, but unsurprising. I have no issues at all with all of you who say you wouldn’t want to use it, but why do others feel that just becuase they wouldn’t use a women’s forum, that this then means that there shouldn’t be one for those women who did use Shecycles. Would it be good for ST to host a women’s forum? Probably not if it provokes this kind of negativity and hassle.

One final thought, I consult a lot of ‘outdoor activity’ forums on a regular basis for my job – and it has to be said that almost exclusively mountain bike forums are the worse for rather juvenile, sexist comments (although ST is by far and away the ‘best’, non-peurile comment forum!). The kind of comments you sometimes get on here, you would never find on climbing or white water kayaking forums – I’m not sure why that is, given that these other outdoor activities are also ‘male dominated’?

Well, yeah, it’s objectionable but we all know that the folk who say it barely know what they’re gibbering about, let alone mean it in any serious sense, and without allowing posts like “kick ‘er back doors in”, it’ll take much longer to identify the complete tossers (in all senses of the term)

Surely that, and “She’d get it” etc translates as “I’d look at her from a distance and go home & wink myself stupid(er)”

I’m not sure why that is, given that these other outdoor activities are also ‘male dominated’?

Just my own experience but I’ve never found climbing to be male dominated, if anything I thought it was one of the most balanced sports in terms of male:female ratio. Maybe it’s just the walls/places I (used to) go to and I very rarely looked at climbing forums.

Hi crazy-legs – in terms of overall numbers, its about 75% male / 25% female, but you’re tight, a lot of women use climbing walls, plus the most recent BMC survey has found that the number of women taking up climbing is increasing a lot recently. Do you think the same is happening with biking?

sorry, that was meant to be ‘right’ not ‘tight’!

Taking Sues 3rd point – I’d suggest that careful wording of a post could highlight the sort of responses required – e.g. if it’s direct experience from the girls (and not hearsay) that’s wanted, the OP should make that clear. However, that raises a whole other issue – the number of folk that can’t seem to read the initial post anyway and end up answering a completely different question.

As for “highlighting in pink” – why not use the Tags intelligently? Just add a “for the girls” tag and they’re easily found.

If I’m honest, reading this thread has highlighted the usual self-appointed moderators, the people that always want to say the right thing and suck up to the owners, and those that sing to the tune de jour.

Better that, that some people actually care about keeping the forum within the bounds of respect and decency. If those who think it acceptable to make offensive comments know they will be challenged, then maybe they’ll think twice, before posting.

I like using this forum, and have made several friends off here. Hope to meet more. I’ll certainly do me best to try and challenge offensive/disrespectful behaviour, when I encounter it, as I want the forum to carry on being an overall friendly and positive place. That takes effort not just on the part of the official moderators, but by all other users too. Just takes a little bit of effort, from each person, and things can be good.

Those that don’t like such a situation, well, they don’t have to use the forum.

Do we need a corner where the women and lecherous men congregate.

No, I don’t want to be spending my time over there!! ;0

Better that, that some people actually care about keeping the forum within the bounds of respect and decency. If those who think it acceptable to make offensive comments know they will be challenged, then maybe they’ll think twice, before posting.

I find that incredibly rich given the situation of former alteregos Fred.

PK; whatever personae I’ve had on here I’ve always strived to not resort to personal abuse, like that aimed at me on countless occasions. I’ll have a bit of banter with people, but can you really say that I am deliberately nasty to anyone?

I think the issue here is that this forum can be dominated by certain individuals with strong personalities. Some people really resent this; possibly they would like to be more dominant themselves.

It’s going to happen, as it would in any real-life social situation.

I believe that it is the responsibility of everyone that uses this forum, to try and ensure that everyone else is not made to feel unwelcome or threatened. That’s a social responsibility. It might ‘only be a forum’, but it’s stiull a social arena.

One particular recent member was particularly nasty and spiteful, and had a history of being like that. People like that seem to make others think nasty and anti-social behaviour is acceptable, and then things just descend into juvenile abuse and insults. Surely that’s not what the vast majority of us want?

And sometimes, some people might not feel confident enough to challenge such behaviour, for fear of being labelled ‘forum police’, if nothing else.

Not everyone is an insecure, egotistical attention seeking self-publicist.

Fortunately.

😉

My first thought was that, should there be a separate forum on STW for females, the top 20 posters on it would probably be pretty much the same top 20 posters as already post on the existing forums i.e. mostly male posters! Initially anyway.

I think once the ‘novelty’ wears off then the females will be able to discuss female specific kit, getting together for rides, and so on in more peace.

At the end of the day, it’s would not be a separate site like shecycles was where some effort had to be made to access the site which meant that it was more female exclusive (and where Sue_W’s points 1-4 are applicable); it would be just one click away from the existing STW forums and therefore much more accessible to males (making Sue_W’s points less applicable).

Unneccessary and divisive idea IMO and probably wouldn’t work – or at least until the novelty wears off with the ‘lads’ 🙂

Drac’s alright though, he answered a thread the other day with some useful info for me.

Thank’s trouble is with humour there’s always someone who takes offence, if at such small things as my one back there on page 2. Forums generally do have a wide mix on and often jokes and comments can be taken the wrong way, I sill stick to the principle if you find it offensive a majority of the time then move on.

the people that always want to say the right thing and suck up to the owners

sfb:

I don’t think I can be accused of THAT :o)

That was exactly what I thought when I saw that comment!

I probably suck up a bit more than you, but have also been banned under my previous persona – I’m certainly prepared to tell Mark et al they’re wrong if that’s what I believe. Meanwhile I’m with RudeBoy and sfb on how some comments are inappropriate and unnecessary – just because something is in common use doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Sue – it was other outdoor forums I was thinking of with my comments earlier. Climbing might be fairly mixed, but IME whitewater kayaking is almost if not as male dominated as mountain biking.

RudeBoy

Stuff like ‘go out for a bike ride’ is way ott.

…and yet it makes me laugh every time i read it.

and yet it makes me laugh every time i read it.

in between microwaving kittens and counting your Rohypnol supply ?

Well I loled at Drac’s comment 😆

Cheers MrsFlash like I say some will always be offended no matter what.

Nah! We should stick as we are. I also got into this because my kids were into it and now they are 30somethings I keep on going. It’s great. I have chatted to blokes and girls on this site and got and given loads of advice. Also sold stuff to guys for their wives/girlfriends. It’s all about getting out on the bike and I meet loads of both sexes out there. I don’t just talk to the girls!

Why? Apart from sizing issues (and there are small blokes, like me) and clothing, what woman specific issues are there? I don’t post a lot on many forums I read but I don’t think this one is particularly intimidating in any area. If you want to create divisions then go for it, but generally, no point.