why the goverments greens policy sucks!!

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why the goverments greens policy sucks!!

31 posts & 19 voices | Started 2 years ago by enduro-aid | Latest reply from molgrips

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enduro-aid - Member

Going to fort bill world cup in june and with the price of fuel flying throught the roof I thought, as its just me and the misses we could get the train or bus from glasgow up to fort bill

save money?
not have to drive!
better for the enviroment

Glasgow to fort bill and back (in my car) 1 tank of fuel = £40 quid
Glasgow to fort bill and back by bus....not possible no services running
Glasgow to fort bill and back by rail...2 adults saver returns...£164

think i'll be taking the car again this year then

untill the public transport in this country sorts itself out the so called gree policys will fail and the goverment have no real intrest in them getting any better because they will lose tax revenue on fuel!

Posted 2 years ago #
aP - Member

Does it really cost £40 in fuel to drive 216 miles?

Although we were looking at getting the Caledonian Sleeper from London up to Rannoch Station and cycling back to Penrith over the course of a week - until we found out it was over £300 one way... That'll be well over £1,000 of my money that won't be coming to Scotland this summer.
How come it's all so expensive?

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

rail companies are privatized, and many trains are overcrowded, anyone with a grasp of economics can see that the privatized companies have been very clever in working out how much to charge based on getting the overcrowding exactly right.

Any more and people wont pay
Any less overcrowded and they won't sell sufficient bacon and cheese* panini** to pay for the christmas party.

*apparently, smells like 4y.o. todler vomit
**made in the microwave, not a grill

FWIW, costs me identical ammounts to get arround in a 1975 MG Midget as it does on the train, and I prefer the smell of petrol to the smell of todler vomit.

Posted 2 years ago #
GrahamS - Member

Erm.. that doesn't sound right.

I just had a play on National Rail Enquiries and an Advance fare on Friday 4th June from Glasgow Queen Street to Fort Bill is £12.10

Posted 2 years ago #
enduro-aid - Member

I can average 50 mpg on the A82 so 250 miles at 50 mpg is 5 gallons and a gallon is 5.50ish so i rounded up for traffic and stuck behind a truck etc

my figures were from the trainline.co.uk and we are travelling up sat am and home mon as neither of us can get off work on the friday

but cheers i'll look at NRE

trains in scotland are very expensive I feel I commute by train and it costs £80 per month for a 13 mile journey!!

Posted 2 years ago #
uplink - Member

Have you tried the £12 tickets?

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

why are you criticising the govertment green policy for the charges of a private company?Are you advocating stste subsidies by the Scotish parliament?

Posted 2 years ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Remember to check for single fares as well - sometimes cheaper to get two singles than a return.

Posted 2 years ago #
rs - Member

Also a bit lame to complain about the cost of public transport to some obscure little station in the highlands, fair enough if its a commute into a big city but seriously, if you want to bleat on about saving the environment stay home and watch it on the tv/internet!

Posted 2 years ago #
Wiredchops - Member

Yup, just done a search too for that weekend, £36.50 each return on specified trains, £42.20 anytime return. So £40 compared to £80, still not great, suppose it depends how much you dislike driving

Posted 2 years ago #
enduro-aid - Member

Im saying that I dont understand how the goverment can tax the car so heavily be it by fuel tax or road tax or insurance tax and use the excuse that we should all be using public transport when its not a viable alternative

they should be applying pressure to the rail and bus firms to give better service and better price to make it an altentive, after all it is the goverment who hand out the rail franchises

I was sitting on my commute the other day and a plack infront of me commemorated the "introduction of this train" in 1978!!!

Posted 2 years ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Cars are not taxed heavily is the answer - there is far more subsidy from the general public on road transport than rail transport.

Motoring is too cheap. the road lobby ( AA/ RAC / Road hauliers ass) are too powerful.

Posted 2 years ago #
rs - Member

Green policy while obviously has the aim of shifting as many people as possible out of the car and onto sustainable modes of travel, it is focussed on the commuter trips. I would argue that $35-$40 isn't a bad price for a return train ticket into the middle of nowhere! Maybe your car is too cheap.

Posted 2 years ago #
porterclough - Member

The government doesn't have any green policies, just green sounding excuses for other policies.

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

they should be applying pressure to the rail and bus firms to give better service and better price to make it an altentive, after all it is the goverment who hand out the rail franchises

What by asking them to run at a loss ?
Basically as other say the car is far too cheap and we dont subsidise rail travel to the same extent. Once fewer people use the service it becomes more expensive as the fixed costs get divided between fewer people. Only way to reduce cost is to subsidise the industry via higher taxes ...now there is a popular option.
In this country we want the best of everything but we dont want to pay tax so pick one or the other unfortunately.
Also democrcay limits their good intentions [any party here] imagine the effect on voters if a government doubled VED and also increased fuel by 50 p a litre to subsidise public transport - would they win an election?
We cannot blame the governement for the lack of green policies if the electorate actually gave a sh1t there would be plenty

Posted 2 years ago #
hainey - Member

What by asking them to runa at a loss ?

I think you will find that the train companies are making a nice tidy profit at the moment!

Posted 2 years ago #
BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

a return train ticket into the middle of nowhere

exept fort william isn't the middle of nowhere, it's a fairly major tourist destination being a start point for journeys into the middle of nowhere - the west highlands, climbing the highest mountain in britain, the world mountain bike chmapionship, the caledonian canal and loch ness, the road to the isles, one of the major ski-ing venues, and on and on..
unless i'm mistaken are we not trying to encourage tourism?

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

are we not trying to encourage tourism?

Surely that is why we have a royal family?

Posted 2 years ago #
ooOOoo - Member

Rail fares are a nonsensical pisstake.

Posted 2 years ago #
hainey - Member

Rail fares are a nonsensical pisstake.

Always were always will be.

Nothing will change unfortunately so its reliance on the car once more.

But then that is their plan right!?

Posted 2 years ago #
soulrider - Member

Try live in the countryside and survive without a car.. Local town only 5 miles from my house.. work 11 niles away

I have done it.. cycling everywhere really eats into my spare/Leisure time - and when I do get some freetime it is then spent ensuring the bike is in working order..
Plus my time riding offroad is reduced as I am
a, Knackered
or
b, my mates have already gone out riding while I was riding home from the shops.

Posted 2 years ago #
enduro-aid - Member

Have to back up BBSB here Fort william is one of the biggest centres in the highlands and during summer it can rival some of the bigger towns in the central belt for population, with the tourist influx

so its hardly in the middle of nowhere

Posted 2 years ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

Do some research on integrated transport policies, watch the Yes Minister episode on it, and read the Transport 2000 plan and its associated criticism.

Integrated transport, for the little tax we pay in the UK, is just never going to happen.

Posted 2 years ago #
ooOOoo - Member

maybe, I'd love to know what they were like 50 years ago hainey.
You'd think after inventing the railways, and having 150 years to get our heads round it, this country would have a nice, simple, cheap, logical system.
But no! You have to book 3 seperate tickets to get a cheap price, it costs more than flying, and why is a single never just ½ a bloody return?!
I'm with the OP

Posted 2 years ago #
hainey - Member

And don't get me started on the cost of the tube!!

Posted 2 years ago #
rootes1 - Member

Although we were looking at getting the Caledonian Sleeper from London up to Rannoch Station and cycling back to Penrith over the course of a week - until we found out it was over £300 one way.

i got a 1st class single bought the day before for £140 - london to dundee.. cheaper than the flight to dundee

you can get std berths for £39 if you book far enough ahead - or a seated sleeper for £29

would have been great apart from the massive air compressor unde rmy berth... 6.5hrs is a long time...

Posted 2 years ago #
rs - Member

exept fort william isn't the middle of nowhere, it's a fairly major tourist destination being a start point for journeys into the middle of nowhere - the west highlands, climbing the highest mountain in britain, the world mountain bike chmapionship, the caledonian canal and loch ness, the road to the isles, one of the major ski-ing venues, and on and on..
unless i'm mistaken are we not trying to encourage tourism?

Ok, middle of nowhere might be an exaggeration but its not the middle of glasgow or edinburgh either, trains are far from perfect as has been discussed every other day on here it seems. Tourism trips are not the focus of anybody's green polices. The fact that the OP's trip can seemingly be made for around $35 seems quite reasonable to me. Green policy while ideally wanting all trips to be made by sustainable modes will always focus on the commuter trips. Now if you complain about the price of those trips I'm with you all the way.

Posted 2 years ago #
rootes1 - Member

of course for car journey you have to factor in tyre wear/car wear, tax, insurance etc etc..

but normally still works out cheaper that flight/rail i did Woking to Aberdeen and back for 1/2 the rail cost driving and that was in a hire car... tiring though ZzzzZZzzz

Posted 2 years ago #
geoffj - Member

would have been great apart from the massive air compressor unde rmy berth... 6.5hrs is a long time...

The name Caledonian Sleeper should be outlawed under trades description legislation. At best it should be called the Caledonian Dozer. And why do they have to do all that **** shunting at Crewe

Posted 2 years ago #
mt - Member

Personally I blame Stephenson and his Standard gauge, if we had listened to Brunel we would all have much less over crowding.

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

How come it's all so expensive?

Supply and demand clearly. The "govt green policy" can't totally revamp the entire rail network to produce enough supply and increase demand to the levels that it would take to get fares down to similar costs to driving - in most cases.

Don't complain about the government for that, it's really not their fault.

This is the weakness of democracy...

Posted 2 years ago #

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