I agree.
Microsoft have a far greater challenge than Apple do, because as Cougar says there is far more crap out there. It's a completely different open market and always has been. Do apple still vet every device and driver and control what can be produced for Mac?
When you take into account what they have to deal with, MS have done an amazing job.
... eventually. (-:
Please, please, please;
There's a pic of a lovely bottom up there (How did that happen???) ^, and you lot are arguing abut Logic Gates or something (Are they? I bloody hope not).
Please.
You can't compare an entry-level laptop with a Macbook and then in one breath go "gosh, the Macs are really expensive" and in the other "this laptop is cheap crap and falls apart." It should be fairly self-evident what's going on here.
Yeah of course, I said that the macbook is more robustly built but I was comparing it to what is probably considered to be a high quality windows laptop (I'm open to experiences that say otherwise), not an entry level machine. I could have compared it to an even cheaper, same spec, poorer built, HP but I thought I'd try and make the comparison as realistic as possible. As far as I can find, there isn't a windows laptop of equivalent build quality to a MacBook Pro but I personally don't think the better build quality is worth the extra £1000+. I am also fully aware that companies cut corners with motherboards etc. but again, a slightly cheaper motherboard for a £1000+ saving? Yes please! Who's to say the parts in a Mac are of better quality than a Vaio anyway?
If a company brought out a windows based laptop in an apple style case of comparable quality, I'd jump on it as, although it would be a premium price for a windows laptop, I'm sure it would still cost far far less than the mac equivalent.
Like, erm.... ^
Like, erm.... ^
Sorry I'm a bit behind, posted it too late!
My cuz got a Sony Viao the screen cracked under gaurantee, Sony amitted the problem was on thier part but it's been a ball ache getting a replacement from them.
want one? buy it then.
don't want one? buy something else.
it's not that difficult.
i looked into getting a p.c.laptop but couldn't find anything suitable.
powered Firewire 800 port for a digital back.(not 4pin unpowered)
run another hd monitor and hold a calibrated profile for main screen and external screen without software/hardware workarounds.
metal construction but still slim/lightweight.
long battery life.
option of a matte screen.
couldn't find anything that was suitable.
i was thinking about running final cut too so it had to be a macbookpro, plus the capture software is better supported on the mac and the dual monitor calibration issues would have been an annoyance.
i don't care what anyone else buys. it's a tool for a job.
(the fact it looks nice and is easy to use is a bonus.)
Had an original iMac, last of the G5's just before they went to intel chipsets. It NEVER recognized my iPod Photo, but my Windows NT laptop had no trouble! Apple discontinued support for that OSX and I couldn't run the Blackberry software as the G5 can't be updated - backwards compatible you say? Then it died. So I moved to W7 on a laptop and think it's great. I also have Ubuntu on an IBM T40 and love that too - Kids use Openoffice which is good enough for Sun. My view of Apple is somewhat tarnished to be honest...
Elfinsafety - Member
Please, please, please;There's a pic of a lovely bottom up there (How did that happen???) ^
I know, took me ages to avert my gaze.
It was designed to calm everyone...
I know it's probbly sexist and degrading and that, but it is a very nice bottom.
Just a reminder that there is a 'real' world out there too....
I tend to buy new ones tax-free at the airport
I do like the Ubuntu logo
I'm guessing all the Mac advocates must all be getting paid a lot more than me. If I add up all the time (not very much really) I spend making my Windows laptop work because it's not a Mac which just works, I'd have to be on a ridiculously high hourly rate for it to be worth working overtime and getting a Mac instead. I'm surprised to find I also have another unique point at this stage of the thread - on various forums I frequent, I see lots of posts moaning about sw not working on Macs or asking about how to make it work (I wonder how much time people waste trying to make PC software work on Macs), but I don't think I've ever seen a similar post about trying to get Mac sw to work on a PC.
As for Linux - I use it in work, and really quite like it. So much so that I have a Linux partition on my home laptop. Can't remember the last time I used the Linux partition (on which I can't run most of the sw I use on a daily basis).
What Ubuntu logo?
The one up there, silly! 
Nope, still can't see it.
Macs (and indeed Apple products generally) have shiny cases and their own flavour of unix; for that you pay a 100% premium.
ftfy - your post going on about cheap laptops with windows on therefore must have substandard hardware (while inferring that macs don't cut costs and give you a really strong spec) is just myopic. macs and the majority of everything else has intel chips on, similar bus speeds and the same board controllers etc so the comparison of the vaio and the macbook is quite valid.
I have used windows and linux and mac OSX and guess what? none of them are perfect operating systems. do your homework, try all the operating systems out and make a sensible decision on what hardware you want to support the operating system that gives you the access to the applications that you will use.
elfinsafety has the right idea, this thread was boring without pictures, I'm going back to page 3
Can you help me find the Ubuntu logo?
I only speak from my own experience. Two time VAIO owner. One time MacBookPro owner.
I'm nowhere near an IT bod or computer tech whiz so all this defrag talk goes right over my head.
As a lay user - skilled in the use of software packages such as Excel and such but not in OS's - I had a nightmare with both VAIO's. I lost count of the times I did clean installs of Windows on my last VAIO and still the speakers would only work when they felt like it - amongst other annoyances.I just wanted a computer that did what it said on the tin and I can't say my experience with VAIO gave me that.
By comparison I've had no such issues with the MBP. When I close the screen, it goes to sleep. No tantrums like I used to frequently get with the VAIO. The VAIO would frequently refuse to go to sleep and just cook in that closed state until it reached near nuclear temperatures.
The MBP cost more than both the VAIO's put together but it always does what it says on the tin. And their customer service is awesome. I just had the top cover and screen replaced 11 months out of warranty for free. That's a £500 repair gratis.
My MBP is two years old but works like the day I bought it. By contrast after 6 months with each VAIO I was at the point of throwing it through a window.
On the point of getting a Mac 'just for using the web' for £300 why not look at just getting an iPad? Admittedly still over your £300 price point but not as much over as a MacBook.
Thanks for all the helpful contributions. I ended up spending a little more and getting a MacBook. It just under two years but the spec is decent enough. I was going to get an iPad but with our other laptop having 'issues' I felt better to have another laptop which can word process etc and there ain't much I can do on an iPad that I can't do on my iPhone.
I'm a long time windows user or sufferer & have a hp/compaq 2510p laptop for work and an acer something or other. I bought a macbook pro 6 mths ago and tbh I can see some benefits of the apple such as start up speed and screen, but the battery life is pretty crap and it's been back twice to get the cd drive replaced.
Overall i'm not converted. .
I use PCs because i'm...
a) computer literate
b) a cheapskate
c) a gamer
d) an anti-snob
I also like the fact that if I want to upgrade my processor, GPU or memory then I can.
Chicks dig Macs
I think I'd rather have something entertaining, practical and fun than something that looks good on a beach towel.
Same with computers.
aracer - Member
I tend to buy new ones tax-free at the airportHow does that save you money by the time you've paid taxes when you import it? Or are you funding your Mac habit by smuggling?
Nope, most UK airports (plus the Eurotunnel terminal) have a tax-free Dixons - although they seem to have rebranded as Dixons Travel now. It's not actually tax-free, just discounted so you're effectively getting close to the VAT-free price - so applies to internal and EU flights too.
Their website is being redone so you can reserve online, but I've always just called up a few days in advance, they reserve an item for you (anything Dixons stock, so no build-to-order Apple stuff), when you pass security you pick it up. If you're not away for too long they'll hold it for you and meet you once you arrive back to hand it over.
As an example, the mid-spec 15" MBP that is £1649 is £1433.91 this way. £30 over VAT-free, but still over £200 saving and below the education store price without pretending to be a student.
If you have to fly for work, do the odd trip through the tunnel to France or a weekend away in Europe it's a pretty handy way of getting a good discount off a new Mac.
For video the advantage is FCP, nothing else as good for windows without paying AVID prices
When I close the screen, it goes to sleep
*closes W7 laptop screen, it sleeps, open, it awakes*
Hey, whaddya know.
There are more crap instals of Windows out there on laptops, and there is more crap hardware. Sony are one of the worst offenders for bloated installs imo.
Apple of course don't have this problem.
My point is that just because one Windows laptop is crap doesn't mean they all will be. But of course, that's one mark against PCs really. There are dozens of manufacturers, hundreds of component manufacturers and thousands of software authors, and Windows has to keep track of them all.
This business model makes it rather difficult for the consumer at times, but it's also the very reason why PCs are so ubiquitous and cheap. In fact one could argue that it is responsible largely for the huge success and availability of personal computing in general. Until Apple re-invented itself as a niche upmarket product, Microsoft and the PCs had all but killed every one of their competitors.
molgrips... not every file system needs defragging...If by "need defragging" you mean "suffers from fragmentation," I challenge you to name one that's in widespread modern usage.
FAT - ostensibly introduced fragmentation to the masses.
NTFS - initially claimed not to need defragging by MS when it was introduced, they later said 'oops' and backpedalled. Has real-time optimisation to keep fragmentation down but still gets fragmented.
HFS+ - like NTFS, attempts to keep fragmentation to a minimum on the fly but can still get fragmented.
ext2 - needs defragging.
ext3 - can't be defragged natively (well, without converting back to ext2) but still fragments over time.
ext4 - recognises issues with ext3, proposes to re-introduce defrag."Can't be defragged" isn't the same as "doesn't need defragging." However, if when you say "need" you're arguing that fragmentation isn't a massive performance issue on a modern machine except in certain very specific circumstances, be that on Windows, Linux or OSX, I'd agree with you. It's largely a non-issue.
If as I suspect it's merely a badly researched attempt at willy-waving that "the Mac doesn't need defragging and PCs do," modern Windows OSes run a weekly scheduled defrag task on a very low system priority in order to keep fragmentation to a minimum. Most people aren't even aware of this and it can of course be disabled. The Mac, however, doesn't do this; not because it's not required but because it's not possible.
To defrag a Mac requires third party tools (not free) and requires exclusive access to the volume whist it runs - so you can't use your computer. It's also inherently risky, something Microsoft managed to fix back in the 90's.
This is fun, anyone else want to make any wildly inaccurate claims to the supremacy of their platform or have I made my point? (-: Hey I know, shall we do viruses next?
Since when did I say I use a Mac? 
"Need" in this context is from a performance perspective, not a technical statement saying it cannot be defragged. So bringing fragmentation into the Mac Vs. PC arguement is pretty pointless, as it brings very little noticable benefits for the average Joe Bloggs desktop.
Now who's waving their little friend around by listing filesystems?
In your haste to go "ha!" in a triumphant manner, you've overlooked the fact that I was replying to Molgrips, not you.
it brings very little noticable benefits for the average Joe Bloggs desktop.
... which is exactly what I said. This is true of both Mac and PC, it's a non-issue as far as comparisons go. The only difference is, with NTFS you have the option to do so, should you desire. You don't "need" to on either platform.
Chicks dig MacsOffice by the beach
How it is this is work? I not understand. Can please explain to me this with pictures?
Thank you.
It's like this kind of 'work' elfin...
No, I still is not understand. Need see more please.
Cougar.... you quoted me....
In my haste to go "ha!" in a triumphant manner, I've overlooked the fact that I was replying to you, not Molgrips.
Mia Culpa, sorry about that.
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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