Biggest issue is the US doesn’t have the infrastructure to manufacture consumer goods on that scale any more.

Didn’t Michael Moore do a documentry on this (with a huge anti-capitalist slant) to do with Nike trainers and found it was actualy possible, and make a profit, but as the price of the trainers was essentialy fixed high then it wan’t a case of asking people to pay more for them (because if you took it out of the profit margin they didn’t have to), it was the shareholders money, so they were only ever made by the cheapest factory in the East and still sold at the premium price.

Our politicians are quite happy the way large corporates avoid paying tax as they all hope to get a nice job on the board once they retire and do very nicely for themselves like Tony Blair (although he prefers to be paid by genocidal dictators rather than CEOs).

Until we change our politicians to some with morals, nothing will change wrt tax avoidance.

Don’t blame the player, blame the game. (Change the law).

This.

If there was any will whatsoever within governments to put a stop to this type of tax avoidance, they could stop it tomorrow. How keen do you think George and chums are, despite making the occasional noises when the natives get restless at the obvious injustice of it? A lot of the tax avoidance hot spots are British territories. London is now essentially a tax haven for non-doms and their funny money, which the City is quite happy to rinse for them. This hasn’t happened by chance.

The track record of the newly appointed head of the European Commission, Jean Claude Juncker, says it all. This was the man who, as Prime Minister of Luxemburg, was instrumental in establishing it as the worlds premier destination for massive corporate tax avoidance. He was the only candidate put forward for the job by the EU, and duly crowned.

So what do you reckon the chances of the EU having a crack down on corporate tax avoidance any time soon then?

Our politicians are quite happy the way large corporates avoid paying tax

Are they? From a quick read it’s just Al Gore on the Apple board. The issue is not single country it’s the fact that small countries will give silly offers to big companies to shuffle their cash for a small tax rate. It’s the somebody will do it approach, I don’t think you would find a single politician that wouldn’t mind decent tax being paid. Just there are plenty of smaller countries pocketing more than they would under a fair system to move the cash.

Look at the bike industry.
Where are the majority of bikes and bike bits purchased in the uk actually made?
You all know that some companies pricing has gone astronomical in the last 10 years. Have manufacturing costs really increased in line with the final purchase price?

people are missing the point here. It’s not that they avoid tax its that in doing so the don’t get off scot free they instead replace one burden of tax with the burden of hoops and hurdles and work arounds linked to offshore money which don’t seem to benefit them too much either.

Which is one reason why I don’t do Apple, because if I did, I’d feel really stupid paying out so much for something that cost so little to produce.

Well you ride a bike I assume?
Do you really want to know how much stuff like gear cables and inner tubes cost? I can assure you the profit margin is a lot higher than 58%

EDIT
I’ve just worked it out. You wouldn’t believe me.

It is a disgrace.

I agree. Corporate tax avoidance is wretched! Once the employees have been paid a good wage, share holders paid out too. Then paying 25-35% of the remaining profit should be viewed as a duty of Apple. They shouldn’t even have to be chased for it. But then again, while I don’t buy Apple, there appears to be no general appetite to boycott the brand.

Pretty much how I feel about it. A company makes huge profits, selling over priced toys on the back of modern day slave labour and paying hardly any tax.

“But have you seen the iphone 6!”

Ah, ok, all is forgiven. Carry on. Just as long as I have my shiny new phone that works no better than the one I bought 18 month ago 🙄

Apples business model sums up a lot of what is wrong with the world. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the people in the middle don’t give a shit as long as they have fancy new toys to play with.

Modern day bread and circuses.

I really don’t fall for this, ‘Apple StarbucksAmazon’ not paying tax bollox, every transaction they make here is taxed at 20% by this bloody Government, it’s called vat. contrast that with 8% in Washington State.

In fact contrast it with the 8% that vat started out at or 15%, then 17.5% and now 20%.

To do what with?

Feed a veritable army of bureaucratic waste and an unbelievably bloated Public Sector stretching from here right up the gravy train to Brussels.

Pay Tax after a fifth of the retail value has already gone – **** them, I wouldn’t pay either.

As for apple, it’s now the modern day Microsoft, contrast it to the early days as the rebel alliance, Yosemite absolutely sucks, the iPhone 6 is absurdly to big and they’re quietly falling behind computing products like the windoze 10 thing that clips in and out of a keyboard dock forget its name.

But I wish I’d bought shares in it all those years back

Yes, they’re not on £30k a year for a 35 hour week and all driving BMWs, but relative to their families it’s a pretty good deal.

Crikey – do people really survive on that little?

Selling shiny clever things, that nobody really needs,

Its incredible that they make so much money and yet don’t sell anything that’s mission critical to running a modern economy. Apple and all their products could disappear overnight and commerce would still function, transport would continue running, hospitals would still treat people etc. Now try that if Microsoft, Oracle or SAP disappeared.

I’m sure Apple is a huge bubble waiting to burst.

What is amazing is how a single product can completely transform a company that was a bit of a lost cause in the mid 90’s.

The ipod?

To do what with?

Feed a veritable army of bureaucratic waste and an unbelievably bloated Public Sector stretching from here right up the gravy train to Brussels.
NHS, Education, Roads, subsidising good things, making people happy, fixing shit….

I’ll pop you down for a pint with Nigel shall I…..

Everyone else pays VAT – though I’d be interested to see what proportion of the VAT collected ends up paid in Tax and not accounted away.

Apple don’t pay 20% VAT on everything they sell. They charge the consumer 20% VAT at point of sale but then deduct the VAT on all their costs (parts, services etc), so only pay the exchequer on the difference…

I really don’t fall for this, ‘Apple StarbucksAmazon’ not paying tax bollox, every transaction they make here is taxed at 20% by this bloody Government, it’s called vat. contrast that with 8% in Washington State.

@derek as per @footflaps VAT is a tax paid by the consumer, ie us. Most countries also have a tax on corporate profits its just that in today’s world they are too easily avoided.

I’ve got to say, I agree with some of the comments here. What’s the point in making huge amounts of profit just to have it tied up and fairly inaccessible in an offshore bank somewhere?

@notmyrealname, but they can do pretty much whatever they want with the money, it’s totally accessible and isn’t tied up at all. That’s a big part of the the problem.

They could buy Greece.

They could buy Greece.

Pretty sure we could club together on STW and buy Greece….

I’m sure Apple is a huge bubble waiting to burst.

…and everyone was predicting Samsung would kill them off. But the reverse is happening.

I really don’t fall for this, ‘Apple StarbucksAmazon’ not paying tax bollox

Perhaps try to think of it this way. If instead of a company sitting on a huge mountain of offshore cash that nobody can use. Imagine there was a company holding vast quantity of another useful resource which others could use/need. What would people say then?
It isn’t even as if I’m suggesting that Apple should hand all that cash over. But rather that they should pay-up 25-35% in CT.

If Apple really are sitting on $200 billion, then perhaps Obama should swoop in with a wind fall tax on the US operation. Then apple would have to draw-down from it’s offshore fund.
**I’m sure it’s not that simple in reality, but you may see what I’m getting at**

I can’t see why some of it isn’t re-paid to shareholders at the very least. Seems like the top dogs are taking everyone to the cleaners at Apple e.g.

US technology giant Apple has awarded its new retail chief Angela Ahrendts a pay package in 2014 was $73 million (~64M in shares).

and

When Cook succeeded co-founder Steve Jobs as CEO in 2011, he received compensation of $378m, one of the biggest pay packages on record, boosted by $376.2m in stock awards that he will get in over a decade. On top of that Tim Cook was paid nearly $10M in 2014.

They make Bankers and Footballers look positively poor 🙄

http://www.cityam.com/208133/apple-earnings-five-things-show-just-how-massive-those-numbers-are?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Email&utm_campaign=150128_CMU#

Is an interesting read!

3x as many iOS devices now than PCs when windows 95 launched.

Forget Greece. Numbers are almost Denmark’s GDP.

Imagine if Apple did create it’s own state…… It would be wonderful, everything…. would just work!
😀

and a pint would cost 5x that of a half…

I’m astounded that they can make so much money be selling such mediocre kit.

Is it not something to do with Apple being a brand that people want to own / be associated with and as such they can overlook the product to some extent?

iolo – Member
They make some great kit.
Yes it’s overpriced but it just works so well.

people that come out with the just works mantra shall be first up against the wall come my revolution! 😆

Is it not something to do with Apple being a brand that people want to own / be associated with

Eerrmmmm… what was the second question?
😯

Solo – Member
Imagine if Apple did create it’s own state…… It would be wonderful, everything…. would just work!

*name goes in the list!* 😆

Solo – Member
I really don’t fall for this, ‘Apple StarbucksAmazon’ not paying tax bollox

Perhaps try to think of it this way.
My point regarding all this misdirected enmity toward corporations like Apple,Amazon,Starbucks etc, manipulated by the Government and Party spin machines to deflect our anger away from the root cause of our problems, which is gros economic incompetence and mismanagement of the tax they do receive, across the entire public sector, profligate waste in each and every department, which they pathetically try and reduce by targeting front line services, the poor and benefits whilst telling us they wouldn’t be doing it if Apple etc paid more tax etc etc, which is pure out and out bollox.

That’s it really, trust me, even if they did pay more, you and I wouldn’t be any better off.

They make good kit, they make a profit, good luck to them, wish their management team were running this country instead of the cretins that are in place at the moment.

I wonder what percentage of journalists and online shouties ranting about nasty multinational corporations avoiding tax and screwing over us poor folk write their blogs from a Macbook?

seosamh77 – Member
people that come out with the just works mantra shall be first up against the wall come my revolution!

Oh yeah! 😀

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTTSsB92L_s[/video]

@ 52 seconds!
😆

and a pint would cost 5x that of a half…

😀

Just like Stella Artois, Apple products are re-assuringly expensive

That’s it really, trust me, even if they did pay more, you and I wouldn’t be any better off.

Yes, kinda. It wouldn’t matter how much money you gave Labour or the NHS, they’d still ask for more and heaven forbid you question how they spend it. However, I suspect that’s a new thread.
And in case you didn’t know, and to save you the hassle. I once tried to point out the difference between private sector fat cat salary and public sector fat cat salary. Sadly, if not surprisingly. It was a point some on here couldn’t understand. So my advise would be not to bother.

Back on topic, thanks Chambord. I’m free of Apple products, and proudly!
😀

Edit:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTTSsB92L_s[/video]
@ 1:51

thanks Chambord. I’m free of Apple products, and proudly!

Meh, so am I but I don’t get a hard on about it. People can buy whatever they want, I just find the hypocrisy annoying.

Solo – Member
seosamh77 – Member
people that come out with the just works mantra shall be first up against the wall come my revolution!

Oh yeah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTTSsB92L_s

@ 52 seconds!
😆

Chambord – Member

thanks Chambord. I’m free of Apple products, and proudly!

Meh, so am I but I don’t get a hard on about it. People can buy whatever they want, I just find the hypocrisy annoying.

Oh, erm, that’s a little more information than I think any of us needed to know. You do seem quite angry about your little problem. Have you tried seeing your doctor?
😉

Good vid thx Solo.

Conversely, apart from a couple of copies of Office, my business is Microsoft free.

I develop for iOS and Android, with my own money I’d buy Android, Apple is slightly nicer but not worth the mark up in cold hard cash to me.

But whatever makes people happy is cool by me.

Q: what was the previous record holder for quarterly profits?

You do seem quite angry

Not at all, I am a picture of happiness.

Q: what was the previous record holder for quarterly profits?

ExxonMobil and Gazprom, from The Guardian

1% of all the humans on Earth bought an iPhone in the last 3 months of 2014.

One of those statistics that makes me think about things for a bit.

and then I move on.

You need to remember the golden rule of business in our society, to make money. This means keeping costs low to maximise profits. It would take a monumental human behaviours shift to address this.

seosamh77 – Member
…people that come out with the just works mantra shall be first up against the wall come my revolution!

I have a computer that doesn’t work – am I saved?