[Closed] SuperStar Narrow Wide - For those who can't wait.

The video will no doubt go down well here 😉

If I buy a NW ring though, I reckon it'll be from him. Is that not cheaper than On-One were quoting?

Just ordered a Hope one yesterday. For the money had I seen these (think they have only just gone up for sale today though??) I would have tried one. Not had much luck in the past with any Superstar kit (except pads, pedals are reasonable too), but I can't seem to stop buying their tack..

Are they allowed to have what I think is footage of a canyon rider riding in that video?

Is that not cheaper than On-One were quoting?

jtintheuk - Member

On One £20 when in stock.

pfft sweat-shop junk

😉

tempting - anyone tried a narrow / wide on a 9 speed drive (without clutch?)

3 dropped chains today

Er, you might want to edit the link, OP - I clicked on it was able to look at all your account details, shopping basket, etc.
Lucky I'm not a criminal mastermind...

For some reason when I clicked on the link in the first post I'm automatically logged in as someone and I can view his basket and all previous transactions. Not sure I should be able to do that?

Yup same here. Tried logging him out and closing browser but can still re-access account through that link. Reported to mods to remove the link

Me too.

Mods - delete the link.

That's me done with Superstar, if that's how secure their site is. (Well, that and their brake pads)

Thanks to those who reported the thread by using the report button or we'd not spotted the issue.

It's a very worrying thing that you can access someone else's account just by clicking a link.

Has that not happened before with Superstar?

Blimey, thank you for spotting that. Have now changed my password details for superstar. Deffo give them a phone call tomorrow and try and find out why this happened!!

Yes it has. I tried logging him out too but could still see his account. I won't be using them at all.

loved the bit about good support in that video 😆

and yeah that has happened before with accessing people's details.

Has that not happened before with Superstar?

Certainly has.

DT78 - I'm running a 30t Race Face NW ring on my 1x9 hard tail, with a 34t XT cassette and a Saint mech.....no dropped chains yet in 4 weeks of use. I'm running the chain quite tight, and the Saint mech has a fairly stiff spring which helps.

9sp + NW ring here too. Hope Retainer 32T, 11-32 cassette and XT Shadow (non clutch) mech. One drop in 140 miles, and that was in a relatively innocuous situation. Stayed put in much worse. Chain pretty tight too, but still some spring left in mech when on biggest cog.

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front. I know I should MTFU and I intend to try and run a single ring up front, but just in case I decide to go back to a double does anyone have experience of using a front mech with a narrow wide front ring? I'm guessing that shifting between granny and one these rings may be an issue.

I need a new front ring anyway so not sure whether to try one of these.......

I've got a 34t race face narrow wide with a 9 speed deore mech and deore 11/36 cassette on the HT. Not ridden to hard but not dropped a chain since I put it on about six weeks ago.

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front. I know I should MTFU and I intend to try and run a single ring up front, but just in case I decide to go back to a double does anyone have experience of using a front mech with a narrow wide front ring? I'm guessing that shifting between granny and one these rings may be an issue.

It won't shift. That's the point.

Fair play to them for borrowing a load of cash to buy the machines

Would be a good company if not for previous misdemeanours

You can't use them with a double. Or rather, you probably can but it'll be awful at best. Buuut, if you run them without a chain device, you [i]can[/i] fit a granny ring and have it there as a "manual shift"- ie you get off and move the chain by hand. Purely an emergency option obviously

Might get bad press on here, but they're obviously doing something right, book value from nothing to a million quid in 6 years and 200k to a million quid in the last 2 of those.

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

nickdavies - Member

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

Though, in this case he's mostly competing with Hope and Works Components who both make almost all their stuff in the UK 😆

Tempted by the 32t SS but may hold on for OOs £20, 30t option if it might arrive any time soon...

It is good IMO that cheaper NW rings are appearing and making 1xN a more viable option.

Neil! It's only bloody Neil!

DT78 - Member
tempting - anyone tried a narrow / wide on a 9 speed drive (without clutch?)
3 dropped chains today

Yep, hope ring, standard xt rear mech, v worn chain, no drops in the last 400 miles & I've deliberately tried to!

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

Much as I admire your sentiment.

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)
A CNC macine needs very little opperator input, that's what they're there for.
All he's done is copy an idea and have a CAD/CNC file developed for it.

The machines, the alumnium and the CNC file may have been made in the UK, but equaly maybe (probably?) not.

Anyway, when someone gets the 50 rings I ordered on their account can you send them on 😉

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front.

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)
A CNC macine needs very little opperator input, that's what they're there for.
All he's done is copy an idea and have a CAD/CNC file developed for it.

does this apply to hope/works components too?

seems to be developing into the usual superstar slagging thread. yawn

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)

is there a patent?

does this apply to hope/works components too?

seems to be developing into the usual superstar slagging thread. yawn

^^This. It only seems on STW that there is so much venom towards SS. Was before my time but from what I can see is summarised as follows:

"Young lad launches a company out of uni. Makes a few mistakes as young lads do in the way he handles things in the early days. Bunch of miserable old geezers on one website hold grudge forever."

Cheer up. Move on. It's old news and Superstar are obviously doing something very right to have expanded and reinvested to the capacity they have.

And no before the tin foil hat brigade get on it, I am not Neil, nor do I work for or have any other association with them other than using their parts and having ridden with Neil (and a few of the toolsetting company who helped set up his machine centres) at FOD a couple of times.

Interesting video... Wow he has spent A LOT of money on machinery. He must have a fairly serious investor on board. Gonna need to shift a heck of a lot of product over the next few years to make that pay off...

nearly a patent, they have started to license the design. It does sound like it could be patentable as it's a fairly different approach.

I thought I read somewhere that the narrow wide idea was an old one? Previously used by motorbikes many years ago I think. If so surely not patentable by SRAM.

SRAM has filed numerous patent applications on narrow-wide / thick-thin tooth geometry.

“Over the last two years SRAM has filed many patent applications on narrow-wide / thick-thin tooth geometry. Our engineers invented narrow-wide / thick-thin chain retention and we continue to improve on it. As soon as our patent applications are granted we plan to enforce them.”

SRAM official statement

Don't forget that patents aren't global. In the US you can patent all sorts of silly things that you shouldn't be able to - eg Horst Link designs - that existed already by maybe weren't quite worded in the same way or exactly the same application.

As such, unless for example SSC sell to the US, they're unlikely to have any problems selling NW chainrings.

I doubt Superstar would do anything to upset SRAM given they are named on the dedicated SRAM XD site as a compatible & authorised hub for their XD bodies:

http://www.xddriverbody.com/

[i]COMPATIBILITY

SRAM Rise 60, SRAM Roam 50, SRAM Rail 50, SRAM Roam 60, DT Swiss, Mavic, Campagnolo, Fulcrum, Bontrager, Easton, Industry Nine, FRM, Wilderness Trail Bikes WTB, Hope, Tune, Ritchey, Stan’s Notubes, American Classic, The Hive, Crank Brothers, Acros Sport, Quality Bicycle Products QBP, Formula Engineering, Studio Riva SRL, Rolf Prima, Berleau, Project 321, Full Speed Ahead, Atomlab, Wheelbuilder Inc., Choosen, New Prismabike, Zefiro Italia SRL, Ten on Ten, Alchemist SRL, Alex, Hadley Racing Products, Velocity USA, SyntaceKT, Bartime, 3T, FRM, ISON(Halo), Kappius, Superstar Components, Bike Chile, Velo Atelier, Carbon TI by LLS, Onyx Racing Product, MICHE, Soul Kozak, Parts of Passion, Yu Hub Industrial, WFG Studio, ACSE, Wei Da Trading Co., South Jersey Running and Triathalon, Formula SRL, Reynolds, Modus, Spinergy, Novatec Wheels, Glory Wheels[/i]

Don't forget that patents aren't global

You Can actually apply for "International Patents" or file with multiple offices in different countries/regions I believe

But as I understand it SRAM's Patent is rather a specific one, they are not attempting to patent all alternate tooth profile chainrings/sprockets, but rather the application of alternate tooth profiles chainrings for the purpose of improving chain retention on a bicycle.

They Cite similar previous patents using alternate tooth profiles in different applications, Its perhaps tenuous when the broader concept already exists, but patents based on the application of an extant concept to a new field have been granted I believe, and SRAM's 'X-Sync rings would meet that measure. AFAIK nobody else used the idea on a bicycle chainring before SRAM did, and SRAM patented it before publicising...

the Patent only appears to have been filed in the US, despite having been developed in Germany... How hard they fight for licencing fees depends on:

1: Getting the Patent(s) granted
2: Having enforcable patent(s) in the country where other NW producing companies operate.
3: A bit of a cost/benefit analysis on the cost of chasing revenue -Vs- monies likely to be recovered -Vs- possible negative publicity/backlash for daring to implement their IP and that actually impacting SRAM's future sales...
4: a judgement as to whether SRAM's "Stolen IP" being used by 3rd parties is helping their competitors? i.e. Shimano end up selling more after-market drive components than they would do if there weren't 104 BCD NW rings available from RF, E13, SS, OO, Vectoix, etc, etc?

I'm not sure how far they will actually go to defend 'X-Sync' as there are pro's and con's to both courses of action...

Plus I think SRAM are perhaps more interested in positioning themselves to be the first to market with more new features. X-Sync is probably rather old news internally. They managed to land the the first 11 speed MTB group, also the widest range 1xN Cassette, looks like they'll leapfrog Di2's offering by putting out a wireless leccy road group soon, and who knows how far behind that CX and MTB versions might be...

does this apply to hope/works components too?

To a large extent, yes, although some/most of hopes stuff has some thought and R&D put into it.

is there a patent?

Nope (although the tooth profile of the SRAM sprockets is apparently different, so arguably they could be better than the open art versions from eveyone else), but that's not the point. SRAM took an idea (parented or not) and probably spent a few hundred/thousand hours developing it. That paid someones wages, which is ultimately what you want to do when you say "buy british".

Superstar (on-one, RF, Works, Hope, et al) didn't invest much at all in it, they just skipped to the few steps of the design process by reverse engieering someone else product. Presumably there's been some prototyping, but a lot less than SRAM probably had to do.

Now if Superstar, Works, etc had employing a team of engineers to design their chainrings it would be a different matter, or rather they wouldnt have designed N/W chainrings as that already existed, they'd have come up with the next big thing, and contributed to the economy in a bigger way.

I can't believe you are blaming Superstar components for your stupidity.

If you are stupid enough to paste the entire URL (including the session id - the bit that makes no sense at the end) into a forum you deserve to have your session hijacked.

And the session would have only lasted for 10/20/30 mins or whatever they have set it at.

Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_hijacking

Only watched the vid, thought everyone had gone to edgecam by now.
As i teach powermill and cnc on haas machines why are they complicating things. When i made my narrow wide ring i just did one tooth and repeated the program with the datum rotated.

Bet with a bit of head scratching you could do multiple tooth profiles in a macro.

Remind me a student has programmed his own NW ring and we need to finish it this term.

I can't believe you are blaming Superstar components for your stupidity.Hello

" I have passed on your concerns to the tech guys to see what has
happened. It seems a little strange that the session IDs have been swapped.

I can assure you that no sensitive data has been lost as we do not have
anything to do with the payment side of things. All your payment, card, and
other sensitive data is dealt with by paypal and we have access to
absolutely none of it. All we get is a confirmation that you have paid. If
there is any fraud it is 100% Paypals fault.

If you are logged into another account all you can do is pay for goods and
ship it to them rather than yourself, but you would have to go through the
process of confirming that you want it shipped to the other persons address
which im sure you are unlikely to do! Nobody can charge anything to your
card, as there is no payment functionality on the site.

We are in the process of launching our new site which will remove any
glitches such as this, hopefully lanching in a couple of weeks. It has been
made by a professional UK software company over the past year and we have
added several layers of extra security again. Again for this new website we
do not handle or store and card details so physically cannot be responsible
for any fraud

I don't know why everyone is saying he hasn't done any R&D, didn't you watch the video, he has clearly made a big breakthrough to produce a 33 tooth N/W chainring.

You posted the URL from your address bar right?

I didn't see your first post, but I can guess you posted a link to NW ring on Superstars site by copying the URL from your address bar and posting it into this forum right?

From Neil's response:
"It seems a little strange that the session IDs have been swapped."

For the answer, reread the start of this post.

I'll email Neil and tell him about the starnge happenings on this forum, his guys are probably worried they've been hacked unless they are reading this.

Good on him.

I didn't see your first post, but I can guess you posted a link to NW ring on Superstars site by copying the URL from your address bar and posting it into this forum right?

Yes that's what he did. Are you honestly suggesting that people shouldn't be able to share links to superstar products without fear of their home address being stolen?

I haven't got a problem with SS, I use their products and they've never done me any harm but seriously this is bad and I can't believe it hasn't been fixed yet. What if I checked different session IDs, happened upon someones address and went to that persons house and stole their bike?

It's probably a one line fix as well - why is it sending that info in the URL anyway? Surely it should just create a session and be done with it?

No. Im not "honestliy saying that people shouldn't be able to share links to superstar products without fear of their home address being stolen"

He didn't share a link, he a shared the complete URL from his address bar. Session Id 'n' all. There's a lot of sites that do this, its probably just not brought to your attention by someone posting it into a forum.

Let's face it, this isn't your bank account and they don't store your card details anyway, probably why you can only pay via paypal, so what's the harm that can actually be done any way?

Yes someone can find out where you live, but look at a site like 192.com, type in any name and it'll give you the address. And the result is thanks to our electoral roll.

It could be put down to sloppy programming, but I'd rather they concentrated on machining some very affordable chainrings and I'll just refrain from pasting session ids into a public forum.

It could be put down to sloppy programming, but I'd rather they concentrated on machining some very affordable chainrings and I'll just refrain from pasting session ids into a public forum.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/superstar-website-wtf-is-going-on

If the website is developed and run by a third party, they will have a set of SLAs to respond to a reported issue, estimate fix time and then get it done.

Given the priority was the usual SS bashing by the usual STW members rather than reporting to them with screenshots etc (as admitted on the other thread), there has actually been less than one working day to investigate and resolve the issue.

If you are worried, hang fire till the new site launches or create a new SS account with delivery to your work instead. But let's stop the very boring anti-SS griping on here eh? It's old and the majority of users on here are meant to be men not old fishwives.

He didn't share a link, he a shared the complete URL from his address bar

is there a patent?
Nope

[url= https://www.google.com/patents/US20130139642 ]What's this then? - Filing date: Dec 6, 2011[/url]

[s]Are they allowed to have what I think is footage of a canyon rider riding in that video?[/s]Is there anything at all in this video that I can latch onto and use to bash Superstar Components?

FTFY
😉

and another patent, from 1979
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US4174642

A chain drive includes a sprocket rotatable in a plane and comprising an even number of wide and narrow tapered teeth and a flexible chain comprising successive links having alternate wide and narrow tooth-engaging link openings, with tooth width and link-opening width being measured in a direction transverse to the plane of sprocket rotation. The arrangement ensures proper registration and engagement of the link opening of each oncoming link with a tooth of appropriate width despite displacement of the oncoming chain flight from the plane of sprocket rotation and thereby prevents disengagement of a loose chain from the sprocket or breakage of a tight chain by the sprocket.

Awesome - Google search "Superstar components narrow wide" and this STW thread ranks 6th!

So all the STW bashing has backfired.

Superstar Components Narrow Wide XX1 style narrow wide (or narrow/wide) chainrings look like they are very good and could be a market leader. Excellent value, high spec parts for peanuts.

What's this then?

A Patent pending.

Like saying I have a Ferrari, well actualy the garrage in town has one, but one day it'll be mine, hopefully.

Annnnnndddddddddddd.............
As I said if you were less selective in quoting, there's more to the SRAM patent than thick/thin, IIRC the teeth are asymetric so you can't reverse the ring, but it allows the mud to be pushed out allong the back of the tooth not contacting the chain, whereas on a normal ring it would go out the wider gaps. So if challenged SRAM may well not be granted or lose that patent, but retain the other details.

Awesome - Google search "Superstar components narrow wide" and this STW thread ranks 6th!

So all the STW bashing has backfired.

Not really, google knows you, you could type BNP and it would probably rank STW in the top few pages.

As they say, any publicity is good publicity. Already backorders on a couple of sizes/colours. Ha Ha.

If you are stupid enough to paste the entire URL (including the session id - the bit that makes no sense at the end) into a forum you deserve to have your session hijacked.

If their idea of security is to "secure" a users details based completely on a URL based session ID then Superstar deserve every bit of vitriol (and more) ever heaped on them by the rock-bashing, octopod loving STW masses.

Always amusing for a Friday afternoon......

"Bunch of grumpy old ****s slag off a successful company as usual. Boost its Google rank and indirectly drive more sales"

Really is time to drop the old grudges fellas.

cookeaa - Member

What's this then? - Filing date: Dec 6, 2011

It's a patent being filed. But filing a patent and getting one isn't the same.

Er, unless you're an american bike company, in which case it seems like you can patent anything.

Really is time to drop the old grudges fellas.

I think a lot of the people have quite current grudges given recent threads on here about superstar's "customer service"

[i]you can patent anything.[/i]

Amazon just filed for a patent on photographing objects against a white background.

The American Patent office is a joke.

What's more of a joke is that Amazon, the biggest online retailer in the world, has a website that looks and feels like it was designed for a GCSE IT project arround 1999.

Amazon's website, aargh. Can't sort items unless you've chosen only one category. You have items in categories "hand tools" "DIY tools" "garden tools" and, helpfully, "tools"

I think a lot of the people have quite current grudges given recent threads on here about superstar's "customer service"

I'd be very interested to see what the emails they send to SS are like - if they are anything like the ones we see here at work (not bike industry but online retail), full of mental anger and all kinds of madness, I doubt they get off on the right foot to get help.

Just a thought. Yes you may be the customer, but I always find being polite, treating the person you are emailing as your friend and asking for help gets a better response than dick swinging and quoting your "rights" from a google search.

Anyways. these chainrings look good - hopefully some SRAM direct mount ones to follow soon as well. Then I think Superstar really could capture the market and fair play to them.

I also got affected by this, after clicking the link. My details got shared around, even though it was somebody elses session, but good old paypal stopped any wrongdoing.

What i find interesting is the amount of stuff STW posters tried to buy through my account. At least I know how honest STW posters are (not at all).

Not a big deal for me, the bits i ordered arrived, and i still havent had any failures of anything i have bought from superstar, so will continue to use them.

🙂

At least hes gone [s]after the Americans[/s] international hes like the man from Del monte

Anyone in insurance know if Neils comments RE insurance being more pricey in America are true? read the comments at the bottom

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/05/21/superstar-brings-manufacturing-in-house-with-new-io-chainrings-and-bash-guards/#more-78835

I think a lot of the people have quite current grudges given recent threads on here about superstar's "customer service"

Can't be as mental as the old grudges, I think most of them started when someone installed a crank arm by bashing it in with a rock when they lost their temper and then got shitty when superstar didn't warranty it.

Its true that I doubt the t&c included the statement "installation with pieces of strata" will void your warranty, but that seems like comment sense to me.

[i]I think most of them started when someone installed a crank arm by bashing it in with a rock when they lost their temper and then got shitty when superstar didn't warranty it.[/i]

It was fruit astroturfing on here and other forums that caused the damage.

that and the 'you must have used a pressure washer' line raised a few hackles too.

The install it with a rock thing became a meme quite quickly but most people felt the bloke with the rock was in the wrong.

Well, I ordered a 34 tooth ring and it arrived promptly with a bag of tang tastic haribo. The chainring looks nicely made, keeps the chain on, although I need to test it somewhere rocky. It seems a little noisier in the lower gears but a lot less noise than a chain device.

I think most of them started when someone installed a crank arm by bashing it in with a rock when they lost their temper and then got shitty when superstar didn't warranty it.

As wwaswas said, it wasn't just that. I got fobbed off when I had a brake pad part company with its backing on the first ride (apparently it was my fault). That combined with the astroturfing meant I've not bought from them since.

It was fruit astroturfing on here and other forums that caused the damage.

We're talking an awful long time ago though aren't we? As I have said before, young lad makes a bit of a mistake in his approach in the early days. That's all. Get over it.

I thought the rock thing was someeons crank coming loose repeatedly (a common problem with superstar cranks?) untill he was forced to righten it mid ride with a rock to get home.

So SS retrospectively blamed it on the rock.

It was fruit astroturfing on here and other forums that caused the damage.

Fair enough, wasn't that about 5 years ago though?

Fair enough, wasn't that about 5 years ago though?

And it only seems to be this site that has any real issue. Does that mean STW is grumpier and more grudge bearing as a demographic than the average MTB site?

fair play to him. Had a pair of dodgey early batch brake pads ages and ages ago, ( which to be fair I didn't do anything about ). More recently got some braided hoses and they have been brilliant. Second to that the pricing was also superb,when compared to anything else out there.