[Closed] SuperStar Narrow Wide - For those who can't wait.

The video will no doubt go down well here 😉

If I buy a NW ring though, I reckon it'll be from him. Is that not cheaper than On-One were quoting?

Just ordered a Hope one yesterday. For the money had I seen these (think they have only just gone up for sale today though??) I would have tried one. Not had much luck in the past with any Superstar kit (except pads, pedals are reasonable too), but I can't seem to stop buying their tack..

Are they allowed to have what I think is footage of a canyon rider riding in that video?

Is that not cheaper than On-One were quoting?

jtintheuk - Member

On One £20 when in stock.

pfft sweat-shop junk

😉

tempting - anyone tried a narrow / wide on a 9 speed drive (without clutch?)

3 dropped chains today

Er, you might want to edit the link, OP - I clicked on it was able to look at all your account details, shopping basket, etc.
Lucky I'm not a criminal mastermind...

For some reason when I clicked on the link in the first post I'm automatically logged in as someone and I can view his basket and all previous transactions. Not sure I should be able to do that?

Yup same here. Tried logging him out and closing browser but can still re-access account through that link. Reported to mods to remove the link

Me too.

Mods - delete the link.

That's me done with Superstar, if that's how secure their site is. (Well, that and their brake pads)

Thanks to those who reported the thread by using the report button or we'd not spotted the issue.

It's a very worrying thing that you can access someone else's account just by clicking a link.

Has that not happened before with Superstar?

Blimey, thank you for spotting that. Have now changed my password details for superstar. Deffo give them a phone call tomorrow and try and find out why this happened!!

Yes it has. I tried logging him out too but could still see his account. I won't be using them at all.

loved the bit about good support in that video 😆

and yeah that has happened before with accessing people's details.

Has that not happened before with Superstar?

Certainly has.

DT78 - I'm running a 30t Race Face NW ring on my 1x9 hard tail, with a 34t XT cassette and a Saint mech.....no dropped chains yet in 4 weeks of use. I'm running the chain quite tight, and the Saint mech has a fairly stiff spring which helps.

9sp + NW ring here too. Hope Retainer 32T, 11-32 cassette and XT Shadow (non clutch) mech. One drop in 140 miles, and that was in a relatively innocuous situation. Stayed put in much worse. Chain pretty tight too, but still some spring left in mech when on biggest cog.

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front. I know I should MTFU and I intend to try and run a single ring up front, but just in case I decide to go back to a double does anyone have experience of using a front mech with a narrow wide front ring? I'm guessing that shifting between granny and one these rings may be an issue.

I need a new front ring anyway so not sure whether to try one of these.......

I've got a 34t race face narrow wide with a 9 speed deore mech and deore 11/36 cassette on the HT. Not ridden to hard but not dropped a chain since I put it on about six weeks ago.

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front. I know I should MTFU and I intend to try and run a single ring up front, but just in case I decide to go back to a double does anyone have experience of using a front mech with a narrow wide front ring? I'm guessing that shifting between granny and one these rings may be an issue.

It won't shift. That's the point.

Fair play to them for borrowing a load of cash to buy the machines

Would be a good company if not for previous misdemeanours

You can't use them with a double. Or rather, you probably can but it'll be awful at best. Buuut, if you run them without a chain device, you [i]can[/i] fit a granny ring and have it there as a "manual shift"- ie you get off and move the chain by hand. Purely an emergency option obviously

Might get bad press on here, but they're obviously doing something right, book value from nothing to a million quid in 6 years and 200k to a million quid in the last 2 of those.

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

nickdavies - Member

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

Though, in this case he's mostly competing with Hope and Works Components who both make almost all their stuff in the UK 😆

Tempted by the 32t SS but may hold on for OOs £20, 30t option if it might arrive any time soon...

It is good IMO that cheaper NW rings are appearing and making 1xN a more viable option.

Neil! It's only bloody Neil!

DT78 - Member
tempting - anyone tried a narrow / wide on a 9 speed drive (without clutch?)
3 dropped chains today

Yep, hope ring, standard xt rear mech, v worn chain, no drops in the last 400 miles & I've deliberately tried to!

He's pumping money into CNC kit, which can only be a good thing if it brings manufacturing back into the UK. Fair play to him.

Much as I admire your sentiment.

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)
A CNC macine needs very little opperator input, that's what they're there for.
All he's done is copy an idea and have a CAD/CNC file developed for it.

The machines, the alumnium and the CNC file may have been made in the UK, but equaly maybe (probably?) not.

Anyway, when someone gets the 50 rings I ordered on their account can you send them on 😉

I'm considering one of these new superstar narrow wide rings, but I currently run a double up front.

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)
A CNC macine needs very little opperator input, that's what they're there for.
All he's done is copy an idea and have a CAD/CNC file developed for it.

does this apply to hope/works components too?

seems to be developing into the usual superstar slagging thread. yawn

The "R&D" work on N-W rings was done by SRAM (not in the UK)

is there a patent?

does this apply to hope/works components too?

seems to be developing into the usual superstar slagging thread. yawn

^^This. It only seems on STW that there is so much venom towards SS. Was before my time but from what I can see is summarised as follows:

"Young lad launches a company out of uni. Makes a few mistakes as young lads do in the way he handles things in the early days. Bunch of miserable old geezers on one website hold grudge forever."

Cheer up. Move on. It's old news and Superstar are obviously doing something very right to have expanded and reinvested to the capacity they have.

And no before the tin foil hat brigade get on it, I am not Neil, nor do I work for or have any other association with them other than using their parts and having ridden with Neil (and a few of the toolsetting company who helped set up his machine centres) at FOD a couple of times.

Interesting video... Wow he has spent A LOT of money on machinery. He must have a fairly serious investor on board. Gonna need to shift a heck of a lot of product over the next few years to make that pay off...

nearly a patent, they have started to license the design. It does sound like it could be patentable as it's a fairly different approach.

I thought I read somewhere that the narrow wide idea was an old one? Previously used by motorbikes many years ago I think. If so surely not patentable by SRAM.

SRAM has filed numerous patent applications on narrow-wide / thick-thin tooth geometry.

“Over the last two years SRAM has filed many patent applications on narrow-wide / thick-thin tooth geometry. Our engineers invented narrow-wide / thick-thin chain retention and we continue to improve on it. As soon as our patent applications are granted we plan to enforce them.”

SRAM official statement

Don't forget that patents aren't global. In the US you can patent all sorts of silly things that you shouldn't be able to - eg Horst Link designs - that existed already by maybe weren't quite worded in the same way or exactly the same application.

As such, unless for example SSC sell to the US, they're unlikely to have any problems selling NW chainrings.

I doubt Superstar would do anything to upset SRAM given they are named on the dedicated SRAM XD site as a compatible & authorised hub for their XD bodies:

http://www.xddriverbody.com/

[i]COMPATIBILITY

SRAM Rise 60, SRAM Roam 50, SRAM Rail 50, SRAM Roam 60, DT Swiss, Mavic, Campagnolo, Fulcrum, Bontrager, Easton, Industry Nine, FRM, Wilderness Trail Bikes WTB, Hope, Tune, Ritchey, Stan’s Notubes, American Classic, The Hive, Crank Brothers, Acros Sport, Quality Bicycle Products QBP, Formula Engineering, Studio Riva SRL, Rolf Prima, Berleau, Project 321, Full Speed Ahead, Atomlab, Wheelbuilder Inc., Choosen, New Prismabike, Zefiro Italia SRL, Ten on Ten, Alchemist SRL, Alex, Hadley Racing Products, Velocity USA, SyntaceKT, Bartime, 3T, FRM, ISON(Halo), Kappius, Superstar Components, Bike Chile, Velo Atelier, Carbon TI by LLS, Onyx Racing Product, MICHE, Soul Kozak, Parts of Passion, Yu Hub Industrial, WFG Studio, ACSE, Wei Da Trading Co., South Jersey Running and Triathalon, Formula SRL, Reynolds, Modus, Spinergy, Novatec Wheels, Glory Wheels[/i]

Don't forget that patents aren't global

You Can actually apply for "International Patents" or file with multiple offices in different countries/regions I believe

But as I understand it SRAM's Patent is rather a specific one, they are not attempting to patent all alternate tooth profile chainrings/sprockets, but rather the application of alternate tooth profiles chainrings for the purpose of improving chain retention on a bicycle.

They Cite similar previous patents using alternate tooth profiles in different applications, Its perhaps tenuous when the broader concept already exists, but patents based on the application of an extant concept to a new field have been granted I believe, and SRAM's 'X-Sync rings would meet that measure. AFAIK nobody else used the idea on a bicycle chainring before SRAM did, and SRAM patented it before publicising...

the Patent only appears to have been filed in the US, despite having been developed in Germany... How hard they fight for licencing fees depends on:

1: Getting the Patent(s) granted
2: Having enforcable patent(s) in the country where other NW producing companies operate.
3: A bit of a cost/benefit analysis on the cost of chasing revenue -Vs- monies likely to be recovered -Vs- possible negative publicity/backlash for daring to implement their IP and that actually impacting SRAM's future sales...
4: a judgement as to whether SRAM's "Stolen IP" being used by 3rd parties is helping their competitors? i.e. Shimano end up selling more after-market drive components than they would do if there weren't 104 BCD NW rings available from RF, E13, SS, OO, Vectoix, etc, etc?

I'm not sure how far they will actually go to defend 'X-Sync' as there are pro's and con's to both courses of action...

Plus I think SRAM are perhaps more interested in positioning themselves to be the first to market with more new features. X-Sync is probably rather old news internally. They managed to land the the first 11 speed MTB group, also the widest range 1xN Cassette, looks like they'll leapfrog Di2's offering by putting out a wireless leccy road group soon, and who knows how far behind that CX and MTB versions might be...

does this apply to hope/works components too?

To a large extent, yes, although some/most of hopes stuff has some thought and R&D put into it.

is there a patent?

Nope (although the tooth profile of the SRAM sprockets is apparently different, so arguably they could be better than the open art versions from eveyone else), but that's not the point. SRAM took an idea (parented or not) and probably spent a few hundred/thousand hours developing it. That paid someones wages, which is ultimately what you want to do when you say "buy british".

Superstar (on-one, RF, Works, Hope, et al) didn't invest much at all in it, they just skipped to the few steps of the design process by reverse engieering someone else product. Presumably there's been some prototyping, but a lot less than SRAM probably had to do.

Now if Superstar, Works, etc had employing a team of engineers to design their chainrings it would be a different matter, or rather they wouldnt have designed N/W chainrings as that already existed, they'd have come up with the next big thing, and contributed to the economy in a bigger way.

I can't believe you are blaming Superstar components for your stupidity.

If you are stupid enough to paste the entire URL (including the session id - the bit that makes no sense at the end) into a forum you deserve to have your session hijacked.

And the session would have only lasted for 10/20/30 mins or whatever they have set it at.

Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_hijacking

Only watched the vid, thought everyone had gone to edgecam by now.
As i teach powermill and cnc on haas machines why are they complicating things. When i made my narrow wide ring i just did one tooth and repeated the program with the datum rotated.

Bet with a bit of head scratching you could do multiple tooth profiles in a macro.

Remind me a student has programmed his own NW ring and we need to finish it this term.