[Closed] Salmond on Newsnight

I am sure there will be unrealistic expectations on both sides. England will want the oil, Scotland will want the carriers....

I didn't, but about this independence mullarkey…. I’m Scottish, I qualify directly to play for Scotland, etc etc, not through residence, but through my father and his father and his back as far as you can go. Due to no fault of my own I live south of the border. In the meantime Terry Butcher, as Suffolk as you like and an Ex England Captain can.

Whatever way you spin it this decision has a profound effect on me and mine, either as a Scot, or as a citizen of the Union, either way it does. So how come I have no say?

That’s not democracy!

Overall, I probably favour less centalisation, and if I had my way the system would work in layers from the lowest level up, so say Parish councils reporting to and being represented at local boroughs, reporting to and being represented at Regional authorities reporting to and being represented at National government reporting toand being represented at Europe. So for my money if we are going down this route that’s the way foreard with Northumbria, Wessex and East Anglia getting the same deal stylee.

What in particular Capt John?

Due to no fault of my own I live south of the border

You don't have any say in the matter?

So for my money if we are going down this route that’s the way foreard with Northumbria, Wessex and East Anglia getting the same deal stylee.

Except the regions decided it was a ridiculous idea a couple of years ago and quite rightly threw a bag over it.

Oh and I'm a former lancastrian holed up in Scotland FWIW

Scotland will want the carriers....

Interesting - I'd not considered of this before - would Salmond's intention to be to have separate armed forces as well, autonomous and funded entirely from the Scottish budget?

The SNP policy on armed forces is to have a small national defense force and some troops available for UN peacekeeping. No carriers required.

Of course an independent Scotland would want independent armed forces. However Scotland would be neutral and not in NATO thus not be involved in imperialistic adventurism overseas and would not have any colonies to defend so would need armed forces of a very different make up to the current UK forces

Just throwing this out there...

Surely going into any negotiation you say you want x,y,z, with the expectation that in reality you'll come away with only x and y.

Isn't this just standard negotiating procedure?

I felt like posting on here immediately afterwards!! It was spectacularly awful. Perhaps the vote should be put back even further because Salmond was painfully exposed by Paxman. It was embarrassing. After all this time, he is still so ill-prepared on simple (if awkard) questions.

Paxman's decision to go the "expose by ribbing" approach worked in spades. And it was clear who came out looking a clown!

Capot John - I didn't see the interview so I am interested to know what areas were

Salmond's arrogrance about what an independent Scotland would definitely get, not what they might negotiate for independence

If we had a vote south of the border I'd just vote for whatever Salmond didn't want. He's a proper chubby little cock of a man.

And it was clear who came out looking a clown!

and

He's a proper chubby little cock of a man.

The really sad thing is that he is the best there is from any political party in Scotland.

....although are there any decent political party leaders in the UK?

So Eck says Engerlund will be better off with an independent Scotland.

Now does Dave say he's talking ****e and infer Scotland costs the UK tax payer money or agree with him and defeat his own arguement about unionism?

Salmond once again shows how to get the English voter to come down on his side and back Dave into a corner.

deadlydarcy - Member
If we had a vote south of the border I'd just vote for whatever Salmond didn't want. He's a proper chubby little cock of a man.

Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

Obviously being a Southern Irish ex-pat living in Bristol, Scottish indy is a burning issue to you MacDarcy

TJ it will be on BBC iplayer.

Salmond is a horrendously arrogant little toad of a man! But then who can blame him. Look at the so-called opposition he's got. Woeful, the lot of them! In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king - never better illustrated!

He's been running rings around everyone. CmD is playing right into his hands for a start. And Ed Milliband and the Scottish labour party.... sweet jesus!

I think that may be about to change though. His policies will now be given some closer scrutiny, for the media for a start. I hope so. Because his economic policy - such as it is - is frankly laughable

Just watched a it. Clearly not the same programme as teamhurtmore did. Good performance by Salmond in the face of extremely hostile and biased questioning focussing on trivia. How will the gold reserves be transported - in an armoured train. thats really a core issue, (Paxman has previous history as a very strong unionist) Comparing Scotland to Zimbabwe FFS.

Scottish indy is a burning issue to you MacDarcy

In the words of Rhett Butler, frankly my dear... Hence, my lack of involvement in the weekly Scottish independence debates on STW.

Yeah, I know personality shouldn't get in the way, so I most likely wouldn't vote anyway. But I'm sick of the sound of Salmond. He's an arse. And he was exposed on newsnight last night. That is all. 🙂

Slightly off topic, but from the same programme, Dr.Hans Rosling was brilliant on last night's Newsnight.
If anyone does decide to go back and watch this on iplayer, his presentation was well worth watching. It was the last article on the programme so worth waiting/skipping forward to.
Great use of visual statistics showing different global development rates, focussing on income and health, comparing UK, China and all.
His enthusiasm, optimism, and "bigger picture" really made Paxman appear quite small minded.

Can't believe I'm saying this...
But I agree with TJ - I know nothing of the political issues but Paxman came across as very hostile and did himself no favours.
(EDIT) - I saw that loam and yes he was very good.

I've been trying to understand myself why Salmond and the idea of Scottish independence makes me so angry. I confess that it might still be an unfounded emotion.

The answer I keep coming up with though is that Salmond and the idea of Scottish independence is both hugely selfish and arrogant. If I believed it were possible for Scotland to cede from the union with zero impact on everyone else, then I would feel fine about it.

But I don't feel that this would be the case. I think it would have a huge impact on those left in the Union and to our detriment. You just can't unpick everything fairly.

You also run the risk of having a basket case country on your doorstep, which has big implications for the rest of us having to pick up the pieces in the event it goes spectacularly wrong.

Let's say that Scotland has become independent in 2005, had adopted the Euro and then in 2007 everything goes belly up. RBS needs a massive bail out, Scotland ends up like Greece in bankruptcy and you have mass unemployment. Then you have a massive influx into the rest of the UK because suddenly our benefit system is in far better shape.

It's just a possibility; I'm not saying it would happen, but it could.

Sure there are plenty of arguments to counter this but that's not the point.

Playing to the little englanders and unionists - successfully as can be seen from the above responses

Is the issue of Scottish independence all a bit moot anyway?
By definition devolution is a one way process.

Oh seriously TeeJ. Change the record will you. FFS. Little Englanders. 🙄

DD - its what he was doing. Paxman is not neutral on this issue.

Have you ever watched Newsnight before Uncle Jezza?

While you're on iplayer, could you have a trawl through the archives and find an example where Paxman has had a nice leisurely, non-agressive little chat with ANY politician?

We live in a democracy. Its the job of the media to hold politicians to account. Salmond has had an unbelievably easy ride so far. Due to the afore-mentioned feebleness of his political opposition.

Thats about to change. And what a surpise: he doesn't like it

Mainly - as I've pointed out on literally countless occassions to you - If Salmond had had the power to impliment his often-stated economic policies, Scotland would presently be making Greece look like Switzerland (Oil or no oil!). And we would ALL be dealing with the resulting shit-storm. Not just the Scottish!

It's comin' yet fer a' that

Cowardly SNP would indeed withdraw from NATO. Just like they opposed NATO action to stop Milosovic in Kosovo which they still wring their hands about.

Young Scots will do what we always did.....leave Scotland to serve in the British Army.

Playing to the little englanders

Erm yeah! That'll be the Big Scotlanders up there then? 🙄

Let's just remember whose little country wants independence because it can't see past the end of its own nose.

Paxman ended up asking silly questions but that was an old interviewers ploy to prevent the interviewee hiding behind prepared responses. And Salmond looked very uncomfortable when he was forced to apply himself to important questions phrased in an unusual manner. He is normally better than that. Pretty crap interview all round though.

Them the round table with the two economists and Horlick where the latter seemed to make a bit of a name for herself or should I say of herself?

So let me get this straight - you don't care about Scottish independence, yet opt to start, and participate in, endless threads ploughing repetitively through the same lame attempts to score meaningless 'points'.

Let me give you an example - RBS (it doesn't use the Royal Bank of Scotland moniker anymore, much like BP isn't British Petroleum) is a British company, which happens to be headquartered in Edinburgh. It's not Scotland's 'national bank'; that function is performed by the Bank of England, same as for the rest of the UK. It was bailed out, after some spectacularly bad management decision making put it in serious trouble - and before anyone crows about Alex Salmond congratulating Fred Goodwin, please bear in mind that it was the Westminster government who made him Sir Fred, for services to banking!

Please feel free to discuss the issues of substance, but could you do yourselves a favour and stop repeating the same inane drivel twice a week, and before you ask, your existing tyres will still work north of the border if Scotland does become independent.

your existing tyres will still work north of the border if Scotland does become independent.

But will be taxed...(not for any worthwhile reason you understand,just to annoy you.)

The answer I keep coming up with though is that Salmond and the idea of Scottish independence is both hugely selfish and arrogant. If I believed it were possible for Scotland to cede from the union with zero impact on everyone else, then I would feel fine about it.

Hmmmm..... just watched the introduction piece and the interview. Thought the 'interview' was bobbins all ends up - no-one came out of it looking good. The intro piece raised some interesting points though - EU membership (or not) retaining the pound (or not). It appears that a lot of these detailed issues will remain unresolved prior to the referendum/until such time that a solution needs to be found..... regardless of what Teej says 😉

It appears that a lot of these detailed issues will remain unresolved prior to the referendum/until such time that a soultion needs to be found..... regardless of what Teej says

One reason for not having the referendum for a couple of years is to allow these things to be decided and debated

Paxman came across as very hostile and did himself no favours.

Let me give you an example - RBS (it doesn't use the Royal Bank of Scotland moniker anymore, much like BP isn't British Petroleum) is a British company, which happens to be headquartered in Edinburgh. It's not Scotland's 'national bank'; that function is performed by the Bank of England, same as for the rest of the UK. It was bailed out, after some spectacularly bad management decision making put it in serious trouble - and before anyone crows about Alex Salmond congratulating Fred Goodwin, please bear in mind that it was the Westminster government who made him Sir Fred, for services to banking!

Sure, we all get this.

But (and it's a big BUT), had Salmond had his day earlier, vaunting the economic policies of Iceland and Ireland, and all that Celtic tiger tosh, it would very much have been a Scottish bank, as would HBOS. If Scotland had been independent when they both went bust, it would be the 5m north of the border working out what the hell to do.

Whilst the UK economy as a whole isn't great, Scotland's would have made it look like childs' play after that.

The interesting question is however, what happens to that debt should Scotland become independent? As you say, they are companies based in Scotland - surely therefore the Scottish taxpayer should be picking up that tab. I can guarantee that if they ever rake in the profits again that Scotland would take much more interest in the banks' financial interests. Cake and eat it, I believe.

If it's everyone for themselves; how do we go about kicking off a campaign for english independence?

One reason for not having the referendum for a couple of years is to allow these things to be decided and debated

Great, and just how much public money would be wasted sorting all this out, if after all that, the Scots didn't vote for independence. And if they did, I assume they would reimburse Westminster?

What Zokes said

One reason for not having the referendum for a couple of years is to allow these things to be decided and debated

But things like EU membership - it appears there is no clear precedent to do EXACTLY what the SNP would prefer. All EU members would have to agree to allow and independant Scotland to join. This puts CmD in an awkward position now, but he may not be in charge when the time comes to vote on it and Christ knows what the next swivel-eyed-loon in No 10 will decide.... unless an agreement can be put into law...... the ifs, buts and maybes go on, and on, and on.....

By all means, rightly, have the debate but I don't see how many of the factors that extend beyond our land mass can be taken as a given. The referendum will ultimately be about the idea of separation - I don't think you can honestly say the details of even some pretty major factors will be set in stone, or all the consequences forseen.

If it's everyone for themselves; how do we go about kicking off a campaign for english independence?

Where do I sign up....?

TandemJeremy - Member
One reason for not having the referendum for a couple of years is to allow these things to be decided and debated

TandemJeremy - Member
YOu don't even understand why a referendum is not going to happen for the foreseeable future.

Its to do with eh unionist parties refusing to have one - and the unionists are the majority. Its nothing to do with the Economic situation - and anyway that makes the case for independence stronger not weaker

the SNP would have one tomorrow but they can't get support thru the parliament

Which is it?

it would very much have been a Scottish bank, as would HBOS. If Scotland had been independent when they both went bust,

apart from it would either have been a multinational and thus the failure would have needed multinational solutions as happened with other banks across europe. Or it would have been remodelled into a central scottish bank without the casino part run from London where the losses were made.

you cannot have it both ways

In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king -

[img] [/img]All hail king Gordon.