Went out yesterday to Bolton Abbey which means going on part of the TdF route. Came across lots of groups of 2 to 4 people, all doing their own thing on a wide range of different bikes and abilities.
Mrs FD and myself both commented how great it was to see so many people out on bikes.
Then we came up against a 'group' of riders. They were riding 2/3/4 abreast strung out down the road for about 100 yds. You could some of the back ones were struggling with the pace of the front, and the front were wanting to move on.
For about 5 minutes we were stuck behind them as it wasnt safe to overtake.
Not at one point did any of them try and move over, speed up or slow down to make either 1 compact big group, or 2 smaller groups.
We just thought they were being arrogant, and actually quite dangerous.
IMO there does need to be some major education of cyclist, they quite clearly didnt know how to ride on the road in a group!
Just thought I would share 😀
5 whole minutes? Poor you
sad potato is sad
[URL= http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/PicsOfMax/sad_potato.jp g" target="_blank">
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/PicsOfMax/sad_potato.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
[quote=FunkyDunc ]
IMO there does need to be some major education of [s]cyclist[/s] some drivers, they quite clearly [s]didnt know how to ride on[/s] don't know how to share the road
FTFY
Oh teh ironyJust thought I would share
I agree with the OP.
For about 5 minutes we were stuck behind them as it wasnt safe to overtake.
Diddums. What was so important about where you were going that you could't wait a few minutes?
It's like deja vu all over again.....
They should pay bloody road tax too......
Ok since you have bitten.
What if I were to drive my 100 yd long lorry along the same road at 10 mph.
People would be hooting, cyclist would be trying to cycle past.
(Sorry forgot cyclists are 'special' )
I got held up by some cars once. F ecking outrageous.
I got held up by some cars once. F ecking outrageous.
You can over take cars as they leave gaps between them.
[i]They were riding 2/3/4 abreast strung out down the road for about 100 yds[/i]
Would you have been prepared to wait even longer for the 400 yard gap to pass a single file riders safely?
[i]Sorry forgot cyclists are 'special'[/i]
No they're not, they're just road users that should be afforded the same courtesy as any other road user.
For about 5 minutes we were stuck behind them as it wasnt safe to overtake.
Are you transporting organs? working for MI5 chasing terrorists, late for dogging?
Would you have been prepared to wait even longer for the 400 yard gap to pass a long string of riders safely?
Decent club riders ride compact in a group, I have certainly never seen any strung out like that around are way. In fact they even let cars know when its safe to pass.
Were they wearing helmets?
[i]Decent club riders ride compact in a group[/i]
Nah, they're all on 53/39, every one knows compact is for sissy's
Are you transporting organs? working for MI5 chasing terrorists, late for dogging?
Nope thinking about their safety, as cars over took me, and then them diving in when cars came.
I just obviously have to learn that when riding on the road its ok to not give a stuff about other road users or safety 🙄
the group I've been riding with a few times seem to make a point of not riding in one massive group - split into groups of 15 or so max, never more than 2 abreast. When there's a car coming and its been a little while they'll call up through and either move to let it through - it's just common sense and polite, surely? Why aggravate drivers more than they are already? Where's all this "why the rush" business coming from?
Were they wearing helmets?
You know what, I was too busy watching the clock to notice if they were wearing helmets...
Where's all this "why the rush" business coming from?
It's the usual knee-jerk response to anyone who has the temerity to suggest that cyclists should be considerate to drivers.
[quote=FunkyDunc ]
You can over take cars as they leave gaps between them.
molgrips to the forum....
I just obviously have to learn that when riding on the road its ok to not give a stuff about other road users or safety
Your obligation as a driver is not to kill people.
Attention seeking troll tries multiple attack vectors to get attention.
STW delivers.
We just thought they were being arrogant, and actually quite dangerous
Maybe we'll never know about the arrogance, but curious about the dangerous bit, what were they doing that was dangerous?
they quite clearly didnt know how to ride on the road in a group
Given the apparent difference between the front and back of the group as you observed, maybe the back markers were out in a group for the first time, trying to learn how to ride in a group?
there does need to be some major education of cyclist
Wouldn't disagree, eduction and training can be a great thing, there's bikeability deliverd in schools, but its also available to adults in most areas, curious on your ideas for how to improve take-up of this as it's something we struggle with.
Have you ever had any formal cycling education or training for riding on the road?
Attention seeking troll tries multiple attack vectors to get attention.STW delivers.
maybe it is a troll, but we need entertaining somehow, and you never know, might get a tiny sliver of sense out of some of the replies!
Ok
How about big group coming towards you!
On a narrow country road 2 or 3 abreast.... They make no attempt to slow down but require the car driver to do so, using the old palm down gesture.
In a car coming towards car both would slow and move to the side so that each could pass.... but these cyclist don't even try to make it easier.
Is this arrogant ?
Mike - Is it really, well every day is a school day.
What is your obligation as a cyclist? To not give a stuff about anyone else, as long as you are enjoying it and being self righteous about how bloody wonderful you are being on a bike 🙂
Attention seeking troll tries multiple attack vectors to get attention.
Is it, tho? Why couldn't a big group be set up to allow both themselves, and drivers, to occupy the same bit of road with the least inconvenience to either party?
Joking aside, Pedroballs comment seems to be the sensible middle ground approach that avoids the overly combative "what about my rights...." approach that drivers and cyclists are prone to getting into. Horse riders, tractor drivers etc usually pull in when it is appropriate to do so, cyclists should be willing to do the same when necessary.
What is your obligation as a cyclist? To not give a stuff about anyone else, as long as you are enjoying it and being self righteous about how bloody wonderful you are being on a bike
Be sensible but still as a driver you don't get to kill people
Can we have a wheel-size debate? They are so much more interesting.
Is this arrogant ?
A bit yeah, but no more arrogant than the drivers that do the same in a narrow lane.
Some people are arrogant, they use various modes of transport, and in the above example it might only have been the lead rider/riders being arrogant and the others following the group, there's a certain amount of having to have trust in the head of the group to make the call, doesn't mean they're always right though.
If we start playing whatabboutery then this will escalate very quickly into ever more preposterous scenarios.
Why couldn't a big group be set up to allow both themselves, and drivers, to occupy the same bit of road with the least inconvenience to either party?
They could, that's how our (and most) club work. Our Sunday bun run this week had over 35 riders turn up, so we did the sensible split into 3 groups, head off with a big gap between, and we had to pull over several times on Sunday in the lanes, including for a tractor that then didn't pull in for the queue of cars behind him!
Decent clubs will try and be organised and deal with this kind of thing, if it's just a bunch of mates or loose association of riders it can be a different matter.
Can we have a wheel-size debate? They are so much more interesting.
Here you go:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-wheel-size-debate-the-theory
...it seemed to die too early, so why not revive it?
You should have mowed them all down. It was the only other option.
You didn't so now we all suffer with pages of this crap. Can you get any more selfish?
Can we have a wheel-size debate? They are so much more interesting.
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
Horse riders, tractor drivers etc usually pull in when it is appropriate to do so, cyclists should be willing to do the same when necessary.
Nice idea but you try communicating that to even a group of 12 cyclists.
1) Ride leader/person at front needs to realise there's a problem, scan ahead and find a suitable size layby that can accommodate the group.
2) Spot layby, ascertain suitability, communicate intention to rest of group (all while travelling at 20mph)
3) Coordinate the pulling in move to get everyone off the road without bumping into each other.
4) Get everyone setting off again.
Nightmare. I've done plenty of ride leading (inc a couple of LEJOGs) and that process is never the correct way to go about it in a big group, it will almost inevitably end up in an accident and mass frustration on the part of the riders stopping and starting.
I don't like groups of more than 12, it's too difficult to control although a [b]good[/b] clubrun can sometimes get up to about 18/20 without too many issues.
I'd have split the group down personally but there's no law on that - maybe it was 2 or 3 groups who happened to come together and one group were trying to pass another?
Horse riders, tractor drivers etc usually pull in when it is appropriate to do so, cyclists should be willing to do the same when necessary.
In fact, it's even given as advice in the [url= https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169 ]Highway Code[/url] (No. 169).
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
Can't see why this shouldn't apply to cyclists, whether they be in a group or not.
I agree with the op. There's a large number of road cyclists that are arrogant ****wits constantly antagonizing car drivers. A few seem to have managed to get themselves on a mountainbike forum by the looks of the comments above.
What they seem to be able to not comprehend is the that yes, some drivers are in a rush, maybe with an emergency for a loved one who's in hospital, wife in labor etc, etc. but these ****wits are too busy with their "**** the driver" attitude to even start to be a little compassionate towards a fellow human on the same piece of road as them, who may not be out for a leisurely little ride.
Also the same ****wits don't seem to realize they're putting their lives in danger by riding like dicks around a few tons of metal traveling at twice there speed. regardless of whos to blame the cyclist will come of far worse than any car driver in a collision, whats the point of risking your life for some ****ed up selfish attitude.
I reckon the above post should calm the feelings of all concerned, and is in no way incendiary and likely to escalate things.
Well done, Travo.
I see your point smett72, but...
define long queue
define slow
define safe place to pull in
and if you're in a group, even when riding together, you're still individual riders and communication is not always possible/easy.
Like I said, our club, and most others, will do this, but it is actually quite tricky, and just because you see a layby doesn't mean it is appropriate or possible to stop in.
Can't these threads just be closed as trolling/repeats?
^ 😀 Bravo travo, bit of something in that wee rant for everyone. Why you so angry?
travo, need a hug? you've got some anger going on there.
Can't these threads just be closed as trolling/repeats?
...because the forum would be mostly:
[img] 
[/img]
travo just cheered my day up no end
When I drove tractors I always pulled in eventually....
While I wasn't there so cannot comment on the actual situation the description in the post sounds more like you were a bit impatient. I wonder what the real actual time you lost being stuck behind the riders who were "3 abreast". My experience of such events are usually the bikes aren't actually doing anything wrong and only really holding people up for a minute or two. In fact, I get fed up with reading about cyclists "holding me up" when they're just out on the road.
Whenever I commute into the city I am held up by cars who really are taking up the whole road (both sides) and causing real danger to others.
So the groups of 4 were ok, but any more was annoying you? This really does sound like a "some of my best friends are cyclists" type of post.
Just thought I'd share.
Tractors in Wiltshire pulled over for nobody irrespective if you're on foot, bike or car! They OWN the road and they're working, not like you lot. 😀
Can't these threads just be closed as trolling/repeats?
Sorry I havent previously read this type of thread on here before, I do work (ocassionaly, I am one of those useless management types in the NHS), oh shit I've done it now.
So if this thread has been done a number of times before, then surely that DOES mean that some riders are arrogant tozers, or it wouldnt keep being repeated. 🙄
or obvious trolls have limited imagination
Doesn't sound like a traditional run organised by an established road club to me. Sounds more like an informal group, with some more experienced riders than others.
or obvious trolls have limited imagination
Nope it was real and it did happen.
and yes it was 5 minutes. One driver behind hooted me. One waved he his hand up and down in a fist type shape as he over took me (before having to create a gap in the cyclists)
I see your point smett72, but...define long queue
define slow
define safe place to pull inand if you're in a group, even when riding together, you're still individual riders and communication is not always possible/easy.
Like I said, our club, and most others, will do this, but it is actually quite tricky, and just because you see a layby doesn't mean it is appropriate or possible to stop in.
I completely agree that it's not always easy/appropriate/safe to stop. But in the interests of trying to be considerate and not antagonizing other road users I would like to see people try.
...because the forum would be mostly:
Might not be a bad thing.
I know I can choose not to read it, but why let the forum become a vehicle (pun intended) for ignorant views like these? There's plenty of other places on the internet where they can thrive.
everyday, i get held up by slow-moving cars because the drivers have decided to gather in such large numbers that the (already generous) dedicated infrastructure cannot cope.
i get over it.
maybe i've got super-human resources of patience?
Agree with the OP.
A tractor or artic would be expected to pull in.
But as there is no actual need to ride in a "peleton" then several small groups would be better for everyone; easy to overtake, and probably no need to pull over.
It's just more fuel for the "it's cyclist's own fault that drivers try to mow them down" fires. Posting it here is bound to piss people off which is presumably your intention.
Big groups of roadies being disorganised and not making it easy to pass them might be slightly annoying for the impatient bellend. Or very annoying for the self-important driving ****ers who think they own the road. Which are you OP?
It's just more fuel for the "it's cyclist's own fault that drivers try to mow them down" fires. Posting it here is bound to piss people off which is presumably your intention.Big groups of roadies being disorganised and not making it easy to pass them might be slightly annoying for the impatient bellend. Or very annoying for the self-important driving **** who think they own the road. Which are you OP?
Ah. I see Sir is using petrol to put out that fire.
I don't recall starting this particular bun fight 🙂
everyday, i get held up by slow-moving cars because the drivers have decided to gather in such large numbers that the (already generous) dedicated infrastructure cannot cope.
I approve of this comment
I don't recall starting this particular bun fight
That didn't stop you from lobbing in your own dough based grenades 8)
Indeed not, I confess to getting cranky. Being considered "an obstruction" rather than "a person" tends to have that effect.
So wait.. I'm a **** for wanting to drive my caravan around at 50mph, but the cyclists can hold up drivers at 10mph and that's okay?
Big groups should split, as Crazy-legs said 12 is enough in one group, with a leader for each sub-group who knows the route and arranged stopping points. Just common sense really.
To add to the above:
I was leading a ride on Sunday, 10 of us, all well behaved and competent. Behind us was a car that just HAD to get past. He tried for about 30 seconds even in places where not even a motorbike could have safely overtaken.
Eventually he got passed, roared off and...
The road ahead was closed for a Remembrance Day service in the village. Whole village closed off completely, streets outside the church full of people all singing a hymn.
We walked our bikes round the edge. He had to do a 7 point turn, he was well pissed off. 😀
Tractor drivers are too busy looking at their phones to notice any queues of traffic behind them
cloudnine - MemberTractor drivers are too busy [s]looking at their phones[/s] skinning up to notice any queues of traffic behind them
edited to more accurately reflect my experience of reality.
Yeah but without you holding him up crazy-legs he'd have been able to turn around at least 43 seconds sooner, you bastead!
It sounds like they were sportive riders rather than proper roadies 😆
(emphasis added)I'm a **** for wanting to drive [i][b]my caravan[/b][/i] around at 50mph
Yes. 😉
everyday, i get held up by slow-moving cars because the drivers have decided to gather in such large numbers that the (already generous) dedicated infrastructure cannot cope.
Another +1 vote for this, very well put
Could have deleted "at 50mph" as well, BD. 😉
I agree with op to, some large groups of cyclists and i'm talking twenty plus which happens around where i live most saturdays and sundays on winding minor roads cause major safety issues for everyone using that road.
Going back to when i was in a road club we used to have three groups, the fast, the medium and the slow group so you ended up with ten riders per group. It was a lot safer for everyone. I guess most well run club runs still do this.
Considerate use of the roads applies to everyone, it literally is a two way street 😆
here's a 'winding minor road'
[img] 
[/img]
it's difficult to pass 1 cyclist, never mind 10, or more.
surely these large groups of roadies are doing everyone a favour? - they've got together so that there's only one slow 'vehicle' (instead of 10, or etc.)
OP
Next time you see a big group,just imagine it's one of these in front.
[img] 
[/img]
It sounds like they were sportive riders rather than proper roadies
There is only one way to be sure...
*MrSmith to the thread*
And as usual, we've ended up digging into our respective row of trenches and started lobbing self righteous hand grenades st each other, instead of accepting that every situation is different and every road user should be considerate of others, regardless of their mode of transport.
Rather than putting the same amount of energy into campaigning for better driver and rider training, better infrastructure etc.
Forgive me if you've heard me say this before.....
winding minor roads cause major safety issues
Have you considered using the main roads, just thinking if you're really in a hurry they're probably faster.
You don't know that the group of cyclists involved hadn't already pulled over several times that day. How often should they do this? Every 5 minutes? 3 minutes? 1 minute? As soon as there is one following vehicle? If I'm cycling on a narrow road I will occasionally pull in to let other traffic past but I have a right to "make progress" too.
here's a 'winding minor road'
That looks EXACTLY like a bit of road I ride often! On the way in to the Wallops.