Longer working hours and/or lower benefits: that's the dilemma facing liberal democracies like ours. Back in the 50s people did a six day week, that's probably why they lived shorter lives, along with the smoking.

if you have only been there a week or so and are having such chats about issues already, as MD i'd be thinking 'what sort of knobend have i employed'

My neighbour had been out of work for 7mths. He is middle management with loads of experience in a big setup. He got a job with a smallish company as a manager/second in comand to the md kind of thing a few weeks ago.

All went well for a couple of weeks then he started trying to 'manage' the MD by giving advice and dissagreeing with him on matters the MD had dealt with for years. Within a week he was given a letter and told things werent working out. Bye Bye.

TJ – don't forget the fact that some people LIKE working a lot.

What about those who enjoy the work part of their life – i.e. they get a personal satisfaction from working that they cannot get in a personal life context. What would your argument be about that? (non offensive post btw – just always interested in other views on this matter)

no other country bar America would accept this

While I agree with you that people should not be expected to work unpaid overtime, that's simply not true.

Japan is probably worse than America – from what I've read – and I seriously doubt that many Asian factory workers enjoy a 37.5 hour week with hour-long lunch breaks.

Cynic-al – I'm not sure whether you are saying you're happy with the hours your boss expects you to put in or not? Do you think the long hours that you presumably work have anything to do with your constant negativity?

Hi Flipiddy – seems like the quality of the STW advice line remains good – there's some useful stuff up there. FWIW you seem to be handling stuff well so far, in particular I'm impressed that you have been clear in setting out concerns and speaking directly to your MD about issues you are having. It's always difficult when personalities are involved and IMH experience this is when get things can get most stressful. I work for a small company and took a risk three years ago that the slightly flamboyant director would be OK to work with. It payed off for probably about 2 1/2 years which isn't bad going. For about the last year the cranky side of the personality (inconsistent, micro-management interchanged with laissez faire attitude, rude, blaming – arguably bullying behaviour) has increasingly come to the fore. I find this incredibly stressful and it undermines you professionally and personally on equal levels. My tactics are to keep the peace while I hunt for something new. I guess what I'm saying is it's absolutely right to use your head and be logical about how to approach stuff, and talking to other people, getting advice is sound – but trust your instincts too. Good luck with it.

Cynic-al – I'm not sure whether you are saying you're happy with the hours your boss expects you to put in or not? Do you think the long hours that you presumably work have anything to do with your constant negativity?

I don't put in particularly long hours, my point is that TJ makes blanket statements but does not accept that his view is irrelevant to many careers.

Anyway, I don't particularly like my job for other reasons, but my negativity is a lifestyle choice 😎

getting advice is sound – but trust your instincts too.

Wise words.

I know it doesn't help to say this now, but it sounds like the OP let his optimism overrule his instincts in the first place.

In my old job, I had defined hours, and used to do a LOT of compulsory overtime, but at very good overtime rates (used to up my wages by about a third) – it was an expected part of the job, but we had to bloody well work for it, very little slacking.

in my new job, I do a fair amount of unpaid overtime, occasional weekends at trade shows etc – nearly as much overtime as I did when I was getting paid for it… at the same time, I don't get any grief for doing stuff like going on singletrackworld in works hours- as long as my work is done, I'm trusted to be my own boss!

Swings and Roundabouts! – its not always about the number of hours spent in the building!

Some very interesting points of view here, what I was looking for really – particulaly people's tolerance levels and expectations of management in the workplace.

FWIW – I think I come across to most people as a sincere and level headed chap. Which is probably why I didn't get booted out of the door. But yeah, Van Halen you are probably right, he no doubt thinks I was a bit of a nob-head. But a useful, straight-talking and honest one.

ART – That's the kind of situation that I wonder would come about. Useful advice and insight though, so many thanks for sharing.

Littlest Hobo – It did cross my mind that my point may not go down well, but I had more to win than lose by being upfront and candid. With regards to your friend, I wonder if that was entirely legal? Shouldn't there be more of a disciplinary process in place?

Cheers.

Al – I'll try once more. Once again you fail to see my point.

You personally may chose a profession knowing it has a culture of long hours but there is no reason why you have to work excessive hours – its because of your bosses choice and the culture that has built up in your trade. You are not providing emergency cover or 24 hr cover. Either more staff or longer deadlines or more efficient working would remove the need for it.

Working beyond 50 hrs a week your productivity drops and mistakes rise – certainly if you work a series of 50+ hour weeks. Don't work more hours – work smarter use your time well and be well rested alert and ready to go.

Why are lorry drivers limited in hours? 'cos if they do excess hours they make mistakes. Just their mistakes kill people – yours just mean more work which is why the long hours culture is actually counterproductive.

Long hours are associated with high stress, high rates of divorce alcoholism and ill health mental and physical. Its simply not good for a person to do this. No matter the trade.

It is perfectly reasonable in some professions to work long and / or unsocial hours for limited periods. I do for example the worst being a 24 hr shift and a number of 60+ hour weeks. Chasing briefs, working to deadlines all than sort of thing ( although at some point going home and sleeping and returning once rested is better) However without compensatory rest then you are risking serious issues

A friend of mine – lawyer died recently partly of overwork. Worked himself into a grave in his 40s.

A couple of references for you

It is concluded that there is currently sufficient evidence to raise concerns about the risks to health and safety of long working hours. However, much more work is required to define the level and nature of those risks.

http://oem.bmj.com/content/54/6/367.abstract

Conclusions: Excessively long working hours are associated with an increased risk of health complaints. Reducing working hours may be the first step to improving physicians' health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703240/

Sudden death is the most extreme consequence of working excessive hours. Physical and psychological fatigue is common. There is an increased risk of heart disease, and victims suffer from sleep difficulties, sexual disorders, gastric disturbances, headaches, backaches, dizziness and weight loss. Accidents become more frequent. There is a range of psychological and behavioural problems: apathy, depression, disorganisation, feelings of incapability, irritability, intolerance, boredom and cynicism. Burnout, defined as exhaustion, underachievement and the inability to handle personal relationships, can result. In the later stages signs of mental illness can appear. All these effects have knock-on consequences for family and social life (Alfredson et al 1993; Karaki 1991).

http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/books/hl/hl02_02.htm

Work-related stress accounts for over a third of all new incidences of ill health.

http://smallbusiness.uk.reuters.com/2009/01/30/c4de9438dc7b4d9632f96936fed897c1/

You personally may chose a profession knowing it has a culture of long hours but there is no reason why you have to work excessive hours – its because of your bosses choice and the culture that has built up in your trade. You are not providing emergency cover or 24 hr cover. Either more staff or longer deadlines or more efficient working would remove the need for it.

It ain't that simple in the advertising/design world, trust me, I've been in it for long enough. Especially with agencies disappearing down the tubes, clients have all the power now. We get pushed and pushed on deadlines and costs. As much as I hate it, sometimes it means long hours and just doing what it takes to get it done.

I'll agree more efficient internal workings would help solve some of it, but not all of it. If most of your clients kick off large campaigns at once and a big pitch is on the go. You just gotta suck it up. UK is guff for not being paid for pitch work and ten of thousands can be spent on them, so only so much freelance help is allowed in some situations.

Still, the parties are good…

C'mon TJ – you're still not answering my point. The fact is that some people thrive on the mental and physical workout that employment gives them.

I mean, imagine taking all that googling and argueing that you do on STW, and then getting paid for it. You'd easily be doing more than 50 hours/week.

And just to prove my point, I'm still at work!