Forum menu
Just seen latest on Roadcc.
Controversial opinion there.
erm thanks for sharing
Lance is in the shit up to his ears and he knows it.
If I were him I'd just tell USADA (very pubicly) to go and * themselves. He's got the money and had the glory. * 'em.
then what? he can't just wash his hands of it.
Why not? What does he need from them?
I'd hazard a guess that he's a very wealthy man. I wouldn't waste another penny on the legal team nor another thought for USADA. Move somewhere nice and enjoy what's left. Bye bye USA (and USA taxes).
because his legacy means nothing to him 😕
His colossal ego wont let him do that- Livestrong is just an extension of that
If he just tries to walk away he'll be banned from competing - pretty much everywhere, including the triathlons he was doing to try and race in Hawaii...
Fair point Junky.
Personally I'd enthusiastically swap any legacy/reputation for happiness in paradise. Couldn't give a flyer what peoples opinions were.
I suppose it's not exactly a surprise that Lance is somewhat different to me/us.
tbh I think he has built up this persona as being the awesome cancer survivor who was unbeatable on a bike and he did it without cheating.
I think very few people with knowledge of cycling believes that but it is what defines him to everyone else.
he would go from coveted ubber celeb with life affirming story to just another drug cheat who won by cheating.
I dont think he will actually accept any decision that says he was guilty or ever admit it even if found guilty.
My opinion : He is still an awesome achievement but no way was he beating drug cheats and having them within his team without being one himself ...I think they all were at the time tbh and it is what he had to do to win. if one thing defines LA it is his desire to win at all costs
if one thing defines LA it is his desire to win at all costs
Well I suppose it worked for him.
We all pretty much think he cheated so none of this is really going to change our opinions of him is it?
I'd rather see the money spent dragging him through the courts/whatever spent on something more positive(!).
I'd rather see the money spent dragging him through the courts/whatever spent on something more positive(!).
Given that Armstrong used public money to do some of it I doubt that's going to happen.
I hope he gets exposed for what he is
If / when he is found guilty he won't be able to move somewhere nice and forget about it, as a lot of companies, government agencies etc etc will be after their money back.
If he is found guilty I can see him spending the rest of his life in court fighting various lawsuits...
Whole thing seems very political, whether you think he took drugs or not.
“There are troubling aspects of this case,” maintained Judge Sparks, “not least of which is USADA's apparent single-minded determination to force Armstrong to arbitrate the charges against him, in direct conflict with UCI's equally evident desire not to proceed against him."
So....as we know that pretty much everyone in the TDF in that era was cheating, is there going to be a period of time where there were no winners? No TDF? Should the results just be scrubbed from the record?
If he is found guilty I can see him spending the rest of his life in court fighting various lawsuits...
Sod that. I'd just ask some ropey government for asylum in their nice country. Plenty about.
Move somewhere nice and enjoy what's left. Bye bye USA (and USA taxes).
Watch the extradition orders and trumped up rape accusations roll in. 😉
UCI looking increasingly compromised in this matter
There could well be a case to answer the alleged fraudulent use of public money, however... It does also smack of vendetta's both personal and organisational.
I hope he gets exposed for what he is
An interesting comment which I take to mean you don't approve of his receipt of public money and how/where it was used?
He still beat all the other dopers (seven times - consecutively), so a relatively level playing field.
I would like to read his autobiog's at some stage, does he talk of 'marginal gains' anywhere?
If I read that right - The Judge has said he has to face his accusers in court, where they will wheel out all his druggie team mates (sore losers, who were caught) and they'll fling the mud hoping it'll stick with no evidence / failed drug tests, unless the USADA have tests that the UCI, TdF didn't release?
What if he proves he didn't take drugs, the Dunking Stool to prove he isn't a witch? 😕
Surely you want all of the cyclists of the era to also be exposed for what they are?
I mean, this isn't personal right?
UCI looking increasingly compromised in this matter
McQuaid and Verbruggen are crooks, plain and simple. Until they have no involvement in the sport it won't get any better.
So....as we know that pretty much everyone in the TDF in that era was cheating, is there going to be a period of time where there were no winners? No TDF? Should the results just be scrubbed from the record?
Not a bad idea you know.
where they will wheel out all his druggie team mates (sore losers, who were caught)
oh dear, do a bit of research will you. Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vaughters. Sore losers? were they ever caught?
Though my Lance bubble was burst some time ago it does seem to be a sort of get him at any costs process now. He should be sanctioned in some way but I can't help thinking that there is now a bit of the ducking stool going on and thats just the witnesses. That Jonathon Vaughters chappy has really gone down in my estimation. They should all be punished in the same way if they were in it together. Wonder what the job prospects are for the guy(s) that got Lance. The US seems to have a history of politically (with a small p) motivated prosecutions that undermines there justice system. For the Lance haters not saying he should not held accountable, just suggesting the ends do not justify the means.
were they ever caught?
Was Lance?
[i]What if he proves he didn't [/i]
You expect him to prove a negative?
Is a failed drugs test the only acceptable proof of doping to you?
What about Marion Jones?
Surely drug tests most days of his cycling life are proof enough? What's the point otherwise?
Surely you want all of the cyclists of the era to also be exposed for what they are?
I mean, this isn't personal right?
Most of them have been. No, it's not personal. I'm ambivalent about him.
So....as we know that pretty much everyone in the TDF in that era was cheating, is there going to be a period of time where there were no winners? No TDF? Should the results just be scrubbed from the record?
Exactly - what does it solve? Nothing. Where do you end up cos with most years of the TdF, you'd need to go way down the list before you found someone who hadn't doped (or at least, someone who had no proven connection to doping).
Pointless vendetta by an agency desperate to prove it's worth. Let it go, it's not doing cycling, USADA, the UCI or Lance any favours to keep it going. The actual question of "did he cheat by using performance enhancing drugs?" has long ago been lost.
It's just a mess of claim, counter claim, allegation and rumour and I doubt anyone (except probably Lance) knows or ever will know the full truth behind any of it.
Say all of his results were removed from the history of the sport. How would the results sheets look then?
Wiggins would have a 3rd place to go with his 1st place.
Taking it to the logical conclusion and remove all of the results of all of the people who have had drugs related bans and what are we left with?
Would Wiggins have been 1st or 2nd in that earlier TdF?
Expect this has been posted before but he raced in an era when virtually everyone was dirty. Even if he was doping he was still a great rider. I think he probably did but would prefer all the effort prosecuting him was put into stopping future doping instead
[url= 
]Bigger[/url]
[img] [/img]
So we think Wiggins has never taken drugs?
Is there evidence of any of the people he's beaten having taken drugs?
That argument is one used against Lance (^^up there)
Surely you want all of the cyclists of the era to also be exposed for what they are?
I mean, this isn't personal right?
The USADA have no interest in other [non US] TDF competitors or what will happen if he's retrospectively excluded from any results
If they manage to convict Armstrong of doping whilst on Uncle Sam's payroll, he'll be doing jail time
The US has always used plea bargaining as a matter of course in order to convict all and severely punish those that won't roll over. It often not advisable to plead not guilty [even if you are] given the severity of sentencing.
My knowledge, both current and historical, of the organisations involved is next to **** all, however I just wonder if this has more to do with people within USADA, the UCI and US Cycling really not liking each other, or certainly trying to right a wrong they feel they may have been dealt by another and Lance is a mere scapegoat.
"yossarian - Member
Surely you want all of the cyclists of the era to also be exposed for what they are?
I mean, this isn't personal right?
Most of them have been. No, it's not personal. I'm ambivalent about him."
I would suggest that you'll find that most of them have not been exposed, even domestic's were at it. Lots of noise in the press and very few people actually sanctioned from the Lance era. Indurain worked with Ferrari, no sanctions there. There are suspected to be many more who understood what was required for a level playing field, shame of it in a sport I love.
What is interesting is the blood doping thing and how far it goes back, even that there are rumours of family generational involvement. Then I supose it's just a reflection of society, some people(s) will do anything to win.
Steve - need to update F.Schlek
Lance did test positive for cortisone in 99 but the UCI acccepted a backdated medical certificate against its own rules. Lance has lied about not testing positive ever since. The UCI also accepted a backdated medical certificate against its own rules when Brochard won the world champs and tested positive. Indurain too. The UCI has a history of conspiring with teams and riders to cover up positive tests that would be bad for the sport's image.
Surely drug tests most days of his cycling life are proof enough?
Except for the fact that the drugs he is alleged to take had no drug test at the time and subsequent tests [ which can test for EPO] suggests he was positive. He has refused to let stored samples be tested for the drugs for some reason.
As for witch hunt - there is too some degree but it because he is seen as the most high profile one who got away and the vast amounts of circumstantial and other evidence to implicate him.
bad for the sport's image.
😀
Yeah, a few [i]more[/i] drugs cheats would totally ruin that.
I just wonder if this has more to do with people within USADA, the UCI and US Cycling really not liking each other, or certainly trying to right a wrong they feel they may have been dealt by another and Lance is a mere scapegoat.
He's a scapegoat that really set back cycling some way in the doping fight. He punished people who spoke out either on the road or off it. He has put himself out there as a clean rider and has made his fortune from that image and if (as lots of people suspect), it's a lie, the "biggest name in cycling" needs to be shown to not be above the consequences of the lying and doping.
I'm also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where "juiced" records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don't think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.
I'm also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where "juiced" records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don't think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.
This is what they did with Riis's '96 win - given that Ullrich was 2nd and Virenque was 3rd there'd not be much point reordering that one anyway. Perhaps they'd do the same for Armstrong if the ultimate outcome of all this is against him.
Though my Lance bubble was burst some time ago it does seem to be a sort of get him at any costs process now
He has kind made himself a target for what you describe by trying to build a reputation as Mr Clean.
If there is one thing that gets most peoples backs up it's someone who seems to have cheated and got away with it. Add in the boasts about not cheating and the massive fortune built on potentially tainted wins and you're going to have a string of indignant individuals lining up to knock you off your perch.
It wasn't just Lance that was drugged up all his team were if they wanted to be on the tour team they had to be on the same programme or they were replaced with someone who would.
Lance would have you believe he passed over 500 drug tests and passed everyone , that is rubbish he has never took that many and failed at least 2 which his mate Pat at the UCI made sure never came to light at the time.
Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I'm sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.