For arguments sake say the “used to be” era can be 10 or more years ago.

It wasn’t that hard 20 years ago

Depends on the institution

It was hardest in 1990.

Yes. Also, policemen are getting younger, this modern music is all just noise, and Waggon Wheels have shrunk. Now get off my lawn, damn kids…

20 years ago my degree was a doodle. All I had to do was usually turn up.

Only those “make-believe” degrees like Meeja Studies and Sports Physio. Real degrees like Physics are really tough and worthwhile.

It’s certainly harder to get into any of our courses than it was when I studied there… Much more competition for places, 20% up for us from last year. I don’t know how universal that is, I’ve got a bit of paper on my desk at work that’d tell me but I wasn’t paying attention 🙄

Once you’re in… I can only speak for scottish unis but the independant and internal assessments I’ve seen all say much the same thing- that the subjects are as hard and that the degrees are as valuable, but that it’s often a little easier to complete a degree just because of improvements in teaching methods and learning resources. Also that there are more efforts to keep people in a course once they’re in.

I’ll give you an example there, we switched from a 3-term to a 2-semester teaching structure. No changes in overall course objectives and only minor changes in subjects. Across the uni we saw improvements in grades the following year, but obviously not because of dumbing down, just because it’s a better way to teach.

Hons Degrees = A levels (these days)
Masters = career qualification

My degree was not hard I made it hard by having a lazy attitude, I should have worked for a year or two first. I also took the wrong degree and the lecturers were not always there. The reason why Cambridge is so good is that you have 1 lecturer to 3 or 4 students.

I think you’ll need to go back more than 10 years to find degrees harder.

It’s going to be harder to afford it now.

It’s odd – when I was at Uni entry requirements were BBC/BCC – now A*AA. No firsts in my dept for previous 10 years and in my year. Very few 2:1’s – 90%+ Desmonds. Now lots of first, lots of 2:1s and a few 2:2.

Maybe we were all just not very intelligent in the old days????

Agree with NW on competition and intensity. No doubt my son has to work much, much harder than I did.

I’ll give you an example there, we switched from a 3-term to a 2-semester teaching structure. No changes in overall course objectives and only minor changes in subjects. Across the uni we saw improvements in grades the following year, but obviously not because of dumbing down, just because it’s a better way to teach.

Funny – our uni went the opposite way.

It’s going to be harder to afford it now.

Affordable, just harder to justify.

Why shouldn’t it be easier? We have access to so much more information at our fingertips that there is less of a need to remember or totally understand.

Surrounded By Zulus – Member

Funny – our uni went the opposite way.

Heh. Give it 10 years and maybe we’ll switch back Some of our departments don’t like it, the numbers suggest it’s better for physical sciences, maths and BE but not so great for our psychology and languages guys. But they’re the red-headed stepchildren anyway so I don’t think anyone listens to them.

Why shouldn’t it be easier? We have access to so much more information at our fingertips that there is less of a need to remember or totally understand.

Which is why it should be skills based not knowledge based

davidjones15 – Member
Why shouldn’t it be easier? We have access to so much more information at our fingertips that there is less of a need to remember or totally understand.

if its easier, it likely to be of less value in the ‘real’ world unless your specialising in something.

Is it easier to get a degree than it used to be?

No, anything less boring/trolling to talk about?

Spin – Member
Why shouldn’t it be easier? We have access to so much more information at our fingertips that there is less of a need to remember or totally understand.
Which is why it should be skills based not knowledge based

Why are these incompatible? Isn’t knowledge simply having the skill to interpret the mass of info correctly?

I did a part time degree in the early noughties. It felt stupidly easy to pass – missed a 2:1 by a couple of points – but that was while working full time, getting married and starting a family.

It obviously depends on the course, but I remember one evening I was the only one who turned up for lectures, and had a heart to heart with two of the lecturers, who were moaning that the first year of a course was teaching people what they should have done in their A levels, and they were fed up of failing people only to have them reinstated. Their (admitedly cynical) view was failed students didn’t pay fees, and it was all about bums on seats = fees received

No, anything less boring/trolling to talk about?

I’d say the onus is on you there.

if its easier, it likely to be of less value in the ‘real’ world unless your specialising in something.

Why waste time learning how to draw a break even analysis chart when you can just fill in the correct amounts in someone else’s spreadsheet from the internet?
Is that going to be less value in the real world?
Were people valued less because thet used scientific calculators rather than log tables in book form?

Teaching has improved – i wasn’t a lecturer ten years ago.

Why are these incompatible? Isn’t knowledge simply having the skill to interpret the mass of info correctly?

They’re not incompatible. Knowledge in this context is being able to pull something out of your head. Recall, if you like. This was the cornerstone of education for a long time when access to info was limited. As pointed out above this is less important nowadays.

The skill element lies in being able to interpret new information or apply your knowledge to knew contexts. That’s what’s important in todays information rich world.

Either it’s easier now or else I was a lot thicker than I remember, aged 21

(good students remain good but IMO you can “pass” a degree easier now so I reckon more poor ones get through – modularisation, coupled with allowing students to resit only parts of a year rather than the whole lot, masses more support from staff – oh, and the cash value of not booting people off a course)

ooh teacher here, worked in schools and at unis so hey feel free to ignore me

1 kids today work much much harder than we did as a rule
2 it is easier to get grades at GCSE level, A level and also at Degree level – lets not debate what % of each year should get a etc but there was no need for A stars before was there and no one got 11 A stars at O level
3 yes grades required are harder because everyone gets better results – whether we have got brighter or better at teaching is a debatabe point but I would say NO we have not.
4. It is easier IME though the best are still as bright as before.

I used to teach remedial maths to students we had people doing a science degree who could not work out an average 😯
i once asked a class to sum a series of numbers [ teaching them to do averages] one person stuck their hand up and without irony told me how many numbers there were there rather than adding them – they got a science degree as well.shocking
I once marked apaper where someone got every single fact wrong in an essay describing something but somehow cited the correct paper..the tutor over ruled me and passed it. They only wrote 3/4 of a page when the average was 3 ish.

Unis are just factories that churn out degrees and the commodity is of less vaue these days

davidjones15 – Member

Why waste time learning how to draw a break even analysis chart when you can just fill in the correct amounts in someone else’s spreadsheet from the internet?

Because if you get caught, you are in deep doodoo. Our University Court has its list of punishments, and copying, plagiarism and passing off are all punishable by keelhauling. And that’s bad enough when you’re on a ship never mind a building.

Ah no wait, it’s expulsion, always get those 2 confused.

Hons Degrees = A levels (these days)
Masters = career qualification

Haha what a stupid sweeping statement

JY – in your experience, has the fact that schools, unis and even exam boards now “compete” on the basis of exam grades had any (adverse) impact?

My dept, prided itself on not giving firsts out. It was seen as a badge of honour/quality. Imagine that now, nobody would do the subject?!?

Unis are just factories that churn out degrees and the commodity is of less vaue these days

I worked with a guy whose dad had some sort of technical job at a nuclear power station. He had a handful of o-levels. When he retired he was replaced by a PhD.

Hons Degrees = A levels (these days)
Masters = career qualification

I pretty much thought this 20 years ago when I decided to do an MSc – well, so many had a degree even back then.

Maybe we were all just not very intelligent in the old days????

We weren’t, as much as everyone likes to moan about how qualification are easier to get these days our children are smarter than us, just as we are smarter than our parents.

that’ll be that pesky Flynn Effect

wish mine was easy or that I was brighter! 😥

I’m not so sure that teaching quality is better, but the additional resources such as Blackboard make it much easier to collect information.

I did a degree as a mature student finished it 4 years ago, treated the thing like a job and found it pretty simple to be honest just had to be disciplined. Got a 2:1 which I was chuffed with.

Funny about the masters comments, the one masters course I had anything to do with was just utter bobbins, quite shockingly so.

They do a masters version of our course – contains less that the undergrad course does and teaches none of it in any more depth.

our children are smarter than us, just as we are smarter than our parents.

Or maybe they’re just better at passing IQ tests which are very much disputed as a measure of true intelligence or smartness as you call it.

There is a huge difference between Degrees which are required to do a certain job (such as law/Engineering/proper sciences/medicine) and degrees which are a standard of education (mosts arts/humanities/etc)

The level of effort required to get a 2:2 in a ‘soft’ subject is tiny compared with the effort you have to put in to get a 1st in a ‘tough’ subject.

…I got a first in an Engineering/design Technology BSc 6 years ago, and worked my arse off!

The level of effort required to get a 2:2 in a ‘soft’ subject is tiny compared with the effort you have to put in to get a 1st in a ‘tough’ subject.