its all a bit outdated now, and id like to fine-tune it so its tailored more to modern use, (read streaming music).

pic is current set up in lounge.

in the cabinet is an arcam delta 290 amp, good quality in its day (got my amp and speakers from my hi-fi buff dad when he emigrated) but these days i have to bang the top of it to make the LH speaker work some days 😀

2 floor standing mordaunt-short MS50 speakers, great quality sound but i know nowt about hi-fi so i dont know if the great sound is the amp or speakers, and what the result would be if i changed one. the only info i can find on the speakers is in this ebay listing and even then like i say, i dont understand hi-fi terms so it means nowt to me.

the speaker plug behind also seems to have lost one of its plastic covers, does that matter? should i get another?

bluray player on the top, a samsung BD-F6500. never use it, tried using the apps the other day to see if it was worth using it as a ‘deezer player’ but it was sooooo slow it wasnt worth it so went back to ‘phone and chromecast audio’ which is on the top too. im not bothered about the bluray at all, its only there ‘in case we ever want to watch a dvd’ which we never seem to do.
oh and we also have a normal chromecast plugged into tv too.

android box on top of speaker.

it has my back-up portable drive plugged in so we could look at photos on tv or play flac albums say, but…… we never do 🙂

so…….. as the amp actually seems flakey these days, that may be the only thing i need to replace, but what to? something that supports streaming?
our music usage is purely streaming these days, deezer for now. ideally id use something other than my phone for deezer (such as the bluray but its apps are sh1t).
if i downsize the speakers id only have a load of spare space with cables to hide so dont think id gain owt from that, altho if there were some smaller set up that sounded as good and did everything id maybe bite the bullet and just re-arrange stuff.

itd be nice to just sit on settee, and have the option to either play deezer, dab radio (no biggie tho as we have a decent pure portable) or stream youtube on tv through speakers, in fact all tv through speakers. oh and through a remote control.

what would stw do? 🙂

thanks

dont know why theres a duplicate, mods, please delete one.

I had a surprisingly similar set up to you which needed upgrading a few months back. I decided to go for the Sonos system. I paired two S1’s in the lounge and an S3 in the kitchen/diner. 6 months on I could not be happier. I have R6Music streaming all the while during the day (set as an alarm to get up to) and then when I settle down in the evening I use it to stream from Spotify. (I chose Spotify as Sonos had a special offer at the time which I have continued with as they integrate so well. Deezer might too, I’ve never used it)

Total outlay was about 500€ and it all runs off a fairly basic French internet connection controlled by Mac/iPad/Phone which ever is closest at the time.

As good as the Sonos things are, for me they are much more about conveneance than sound quality.

Everybody that knows me and has one raves about it for quality – until they hear a similar priced proper hifi, when they go quiet 😉

If I was in your shoes sadexpunk, I’d take the top off the amp and see if there are any quick blow glass fuses in the amp. These are there to protect the output stage and do deteriorate over time, giving symptoms you describe.

I had exactly the same in my Arcam Alpha 6+ amp, and replacing the fuses sorted it. Might not work, but for £2 or so it has to be worth a try.

Then the speakers ideally want sitting on small floor spikes or rigid stands and moving away from the corners and enclosed space. I’m suprised they don’t boom away like mad where they are now.

If you can lose the cabinet on the right (tall one), bring the speakers in and out a bit, and centralise everything up it should give a much better sound.

Then some form of audio box / server thing with analogue out to feed into the amp will do, as that can be controlled via mobile devices.

BB, didnt really want to pay the sonos premium, was hoping to get something at a more ‘reasonable’ price, but…… never say never 🙂

twonks, the speakers are actually on little spikes. as for changing their positioning, i certainly dont have an ear for good quality sound, my username should tell you that 😀 the sound they produce right now is plenty good for me and i have no trouble other than that amp issue. ill have a fiddle with it, but its a faff taking it in and out of the cabinet as it only just fits and i have to take shelves out, angle it down and then it only just comes out. i thought if theres a suitable streaming type jobbie itd be bound to be smaller and more suitable 🙂

thanks

😆 In that case you might be well sorted with something like the below.

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-16125-denon-ceol-piccolo-dra-n4-networked-micro-system.aspx

We have one in our bedroom powering some Kef floorstanders and it sounds very good for what it cost.

Combined with network capability and digital/optical in at the back (for your TV if needed), it’s a cracking bit of kit.

Hi Twonks. TBH I am sure you are right about the quality of HiFi systems V Sonos. But I am not an audiophile, I love music and as I said I have it on from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed. So for me it’s perfect.

I agree there is premium to the brand but at the time they were the main player, perhaps others have joined the market which are better value.

The big plus point is that they just work, straight out the box.

twonks, thats the sort of recommendation i was looking for thanks. googled it and that led me to all sorts of links to similar items from cambridge and the like 🙂 would you say thats the best one at that price (found one at £200), or would a little more money buy me something noticeably better? bearing in mind that like bianchi boy….

But I am not an audiophile,

thats me too, and i want something simple, so sonos probably would still be fine for me, but i dont want to pay the sonos price 🙂 plus i havent looked deeply enough into them to know if theyd do everything i want.

The big plus point is that they just work, straight out the box.

again, another plus point i read about sonos. i always seem to be faffing with stuff 😀 my chromecast audio kept stuttering so i took it out of the display cabinet and its better now which surprised me as i thought wifi would easily pass through a glass door.

not that its really relevant to my music, but i also seem to faff around with the normal chromecast too, try casting and it says ‘screen mirroring’ rather than casting and just seems to show my laptop screen rather than open the chromecast apps. when it does work i find it better than the android box but it just seems a bit faffy to me.

like i say, irrelevant really as my questions about the music but im agreeing that something that ‘just works’ is obviously desirable too.

thanks

Not got much time as we are waiting to catch a plane, but yes I didn’t find much better unless spending silly money.

The Denon works well and sees phones, Internet etc with a few button presses.

Sonos is a lot better functionality wise as it always just works, and of course for multi room use it cones into its own.

For me though the Denon covers all I need.

Pure Jongo A2 (£20 from Amazon) attached to hifi and Plex Server/Client set up. Client should be on a tablet or phone bluetoothed to the Jongo and you’re all set to play all the music on the server or Internet radio from iTrip app or similar.

thanks twonks, enjoy your holiday if thats where your planes taking you 🙂

sandwich, that just totally baffles me, ive no idea what it means at all 😀
is it something else that needs connecting to an amp (so id still have to buy/fix my amp) for me to play music from my phone?

and if so, why would that be better than my chromecast audio?

which leads me to another question…… if i have a song on my phone and play it on my speakers via wifi, will it sound better than playing it over bluetooth? (and if wifi’s better then why would i consider a bluetooth jongo?)

thanks

been googling the pure jongo and does indeed seem to be an add-on to connect to an amp, so still interested in what that would give me over a ‘chromecast connected to an amp’, if anything. also seems to be a fair few people struggling with setting it up and dropping signals etc.

also i wouldnt mind a definitive answer on the wifi/bluetooth quality question please, is wifi superior?

thanks

Wi-fi suffers less drop-outs, but I doubt you’d be able to tell audio quality apart. I got fed up with Chromecase audio needing to be plugged in all the time, so now run a cable from the headphone socket in my laptop to the Aux in my hi-fi. Modern technology eh? 😆

If you have Facebook have a look at North Hill Audio. He’s helped a few of us on Retrobike (there’s a thread there too) resurrect old hifi. He should be able to fix the amp and maybe a few practical upgrades.

dez, why would being plugged in all the time be a prob? its sposed to be plugged in isnt it? certainly no prob for me as nowts mobile in my setup so just plug stuff in and leave it. i think id be more p1ssed off plugging me laptop in 🙂

kaiser, ive messaged them thanks.

Just connected to the mains all the time, sitting there like a little round out of place thing with it’s little white light glowing. But yeah, I do have my laptop pretty much plugged in all the time 😆

just looking at maybe buying that denon ^^^ twonks linked me to. before i click buy tho, can i make sure i can plug everything i want into it? and some understanding of the other connections please?

im just a bit wary cos theres no aux on it, so where would my chromecast audio go? or would i now not need it as the denon would replace it?

so….. speakers into the er…. speakers section, then what goes into the digital connection, my tv? at present the tv goes into the back of my amp with red and white plugs, is this just a better way of connecting tv to the digital socket?
so what about analog connector and the subwoofer out, whatre they all about? also i can see the network connection but whats the WPS and IOS connections for?

thanks

Its a nice little amp, but I would want something with a few more connections for the Living room, such as HDMI/ARC and a couple more analogue inputs.

It might be fine if your TV has an optical output, as that Denon has an optical input. I think the Chromecast would then use the Analog input, but that means you can’t connect anything else directly to the amp.

I would recommend something by Yamaha, they generally have more inputs than you’ll ever need, bluetooth and a few having Airplay too. Just make sure it fits as the Yamaha’s can be quite big.

I can add some info on the Pure Jongo system – basically don’t do it! It’s not what you’re looking for, as you correctly identified it still needs to be plugged into an amp and it is essentially the same as Chromecast.
The benefits are it does multi-room fairly well, I have 2 x A2’s in the house and an T6 (has speakers built-in) and they sync up pretty well and can also stream internet radio. The downsides are you pretty much have to do everything through the Pure App and they have stopped doing any updates and I suspect it’s already a dead format.

thanks v8, id pretty much decided i wasnt going down that route.

Its a nice little amp, but I would want something with a few more connections for the Living room, such as HDMI/ARC and a couple more analogue inputs.

what would i need more connections for milkie, why would i need HDMI? (dont know what ARC is)
my tv has 4 HDMIs (android box, chromecast and bluray being used at present), why have them in an amp?

It might be fine if your TV has an optical output, as that Denon has an optical input. I think the Chromecast would then use the Analog input, but that means you can’t connect anything else directly to the amp.

id guess my tv would have optical, id take it off the wall and check first, i just use the red/white plugs as thats what the old amp has. in fact the amp may even have optical i dont know, i just wouldnt have known to use them over red/white 🙂
would i still need the chromecast? isnt this amp doing what the chromecast is doing, ie streaming deezer over wifi?

I would recommend something by Yamaha, they generally have more inputs than you’ll ever need, bluetooth and a few having Airplay too. Just make sure it fits as the Yamaha’s can be quite big.

thats all i need, more choices! 😀 got any suggestions/links?

ta

EDIT: current amp doesnt have optical.

Got an hour or so whilst the wife is out running on the beach.

Inputs depend on what you’re going to ultimately need.
Always nice to have more, but if not needed then I wouldn’t worry.

If your tv does the source switching and you’re not bothered about surround sound etc, I’m sure it will have some form of digital out to go into the Denon. Will likely need enabling in settings, but is a relatively easy thing to do.

Have a look in the to manual or google ‘make and model digital audio out’ and see what it has.
If it’s coax digital out you’ll need a £20 box to convert it to optical that goes between the TVs and amp.

Arc in hdmi means audio return channel and means you can use the same lead to send audio back into the amp, but this isn’t something you need to worry about at the moment.

Your arcam definitely won’t have digital audio in and would have used line level phono, hence the red and white leads.

After all that, if you can connect the tv to amp using digital, and others via Bluetooth/ wifi, what else needs to go into it?

The Bluray can use the analouge connection if there is nothing else needed.

Others, including Yamaha amps offer loads more inputs and configuration options but if not needed now or for the foreseeable future I’d question the need.

And finally, if it does all change in future, the Denon isn’t too expensive to chop in for something else, or move to a second room.

Have a look in the to manual or google ‘make and model digital audio out’ and see what it has.
If it’s coax digital out you’ll need a £20 box to convert it to optical that goes between the TVs and amp.

googled sony KDL40EX403 digital audio out
that tell you what you were after?

After all that, if you can connect the tv to amp using digital, and others via Bluetooth/ wifi, what else needs to go into it?

The Bluray can use the analouge connection if there is nothing else needed.
no need for the chromecast audio any more? and the bluray would still go HDMI into tv wouldnt it? so still same quality video but audio can now come from speakers, have i got that right?

took your advice from first post and looked inside amp 😀 er….. now where do i look for those quick blow glass fuses? 😀

I had a pure jongo – I didn’t like it at all, convenient to stream to but the sound was sort of muffled and I cold change it at all.

Just bought a cheap Philips Bluetooth adapter for hifi (£24 I think)

I’d not got rid of my original onkyo amp and decent speakers – so now I can get shot of the jongo for streaming and just use my hifi.

I’m sure there are better more expensive ways of doing this – but it’s fine until I really decide I want to change everything

TV lists optical audio out so no problem.
Sorry, wasn’t thinking, course the bluray can go into the tv via hdmi and sound out back down digital audio.

I’m not really up on the chromecast and what it does. Basically you’ll have one analogue input to decide what to plug into.

Doesn’t look like it has any glass fuses. Doh. Could start looking at tracing and metering channel outputs but if it isn’t immediately obvious like a loose board mounted component, I’d leave it or drop arcam a line. They’ll probably suggest a £200 service and replace all capacitors as they are getting on a bit.

After all that, if the fault isn’t immediately obvious, a new amp could be the best option.

Ps. If you want to stream via Bluetooth, make sure it is using aptx or some other high quality connection. Generic Bluetooth audio mostly sounds pants and as dull as dishwater, even to non audiophiles

The shonky left channel might be just down to bad speaker connections, that terminal looks, well, terminal.
Getting some new banana plugs and cable, QED 39-Strand is the budget standard, and re-wiring them might well be all you need; over time the connections oxidise and get dusty, brand new connectors and wire can’t hurt.
That’s about as cheap as you can go for trouble-shooting.
The fault might be a dry joint on a board, perhaps where the speaker outputs are soldered on, difficult to say, but that’s another possibility.
Arcam make good amps, it would be a shame to bin it if the fault is a relatively minor one.

thanks again chaps

Basically you’ll have one analogue input to decide what to plug into.

sorry, when i said i know nothing about hifi i meant it 🙂 whats the implications of just having one analogue? and am i right in thinking that any digital equipment can plug into an analogue input using red/white plugs, but itd be inferior quality?
what would the average user of that amp be plugging into it? i assume theres a general ‘well thought out’ layout for the equipment most people would have at home?

Could start looking at tracing and metering channel outputs but if it isn’t immediately obvious like a loose board mounted component, I’d leave it or drop arcam a line. They’ll probably suggest a £200 service and replace all capacitors as they are getting on a bit.

naaaaaah, tracing and metering channel outputs? youre maybe getting a general idea that i havent a scooby 😀
good idea about contacting arcam, nowt to lose, but i wouldnt spend a significant amount of wedge on it, may as well just buy new and modern.

If you want to stream via Bluetooth, make sure it is using aptx or some other high quality connection. Generic Bluetooth audio mostly sounds pants and as dull as dishwater, even to non audiophiles

what am i making sure is aptx, my phone/chromebook that does the streaming, or the ‘denon/whatever i buy’ that does the receiving? or both?

The shonky left channel might be just down to bad speaker connections, that terminal looks, well, terminal.

you can see something on that picture that looks a bit shonky?

Getting some new banana plugs and cable, QED 39-Strand is the budget standard, and re-wiring them might well be all you need; over time the connections oxidise and get dusty, brand new connectors and wire can’t hurt.

my mate who has a media business sorted me with my cables, so im assuming theyre decent. is it viable to chop the ends off and strip sheathing back much the same as you can electric wires in your house? the ends that go into the amp are just bare wire that feeds into a clamp rather than plugs, the plugs are at the speaker end.

thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Good luck with your upgrades, sadex.

I won’t do the usual as you’re on a budget and so on, but I hear good reports about Sonos/Spotify streaming from people who aren’t fussy about audiophile quality reproduction.

In my own system, the streamer comes with Spotify and Tidal locked in. I tried Deezer and Qobuz for “lossless” files but could only lever them in by using a Chromecast dongle.

I found that the audio quality suffered unacceptably, so I wouldn’t recommend this as a useful method.

I would suggest going for a “WiFi router/streamer/amp” solution without any intervening adaptation boxes and the like, though. The less interruptions in the information path the better, IMO.

You’d also be well advised to get rid of the cabinet and put your boxes on a proper hifi stand.

Don’t forget the angel-hair directional speaker cable. It makes all the difference! 😉

Hiya,

I use a chromecast audio and it is using a optical connector as I can wee in your above picture. Chromecasts support optical. To be honest they are OK but not great but still better and cheaer than some alternatives.

BR
Jerry

In my own system, the streamer comes with Spotify and Tidal locked in. I tried Deezer and Qobuz for “lossless” files but could only lever them in by using a Chromecast dongle.

I found that the audio quality suffered unacceptably, so I wouldn’t recommend this as a useful method.
i havent got an audiophiles ear, and to me the chromecast audio sounds good enough for me. thats from deezer tho. i assume you mean youre using your cc to cast flac files then? so you have all your lossless files on pc and cast them to the hifi am i right? interesting that that loses so much quality, id be interested in the whys and wherefores of how that happens, bandwidth constrictions or whatever…..

I would suggest going for a “WiFi router/streamer/amp” solution without any intervening adaptation boxes and the like, though. The less interruptions in the information path the better, IMO.

so you mean that denon system yep? ^^^
i dont think ive had a definitive answer yet about the need for chromecast with that, could you confirm that the chromecast wouldnt be needed as the amp/system does the same job?
and just thinking about the above comment about losing quality with flac, would the same still be true of the denon as theyre both streaming over wifi? would it still have the same constraints as a chromecast dongle?

You’d also be well advised to get rid of the cabinet and put your boxes on a proper hifi stand.

why? i mentioned im no audiophile, i really cant imagine that the type of stand/shelf that an amp would sit on would make any noticeable difference to me at all, im surprised youve recommended that.

Don’t forget the angel-hair directional speaker cable. It makes all the difference!

not sure if you were taking the p1ss with that so actually googled it and got no results so i guess you were? 😀

thanks mate

EDIT:

I use a chromecast audio and it is using a optical connector as I can wee in your above picture. Chromecasts support optical. To be honest they are OK but not great but still better and cheaper than some alternatives.

not sure which pic youre referring to but my chromecast feeds into amp using red/white plugs, so not optical?
if the musics all digital, i struggle to understand why a chromecast say would be inferior to any different equipment, as to my simple brain theyre just sending 1s and 0s down a cable to something that then arranges those 1s and 0s into a sound 🙂

@ sadex.

so you have all your lossless files on pc and cast them to the hifi am i right?

I burned all my then CD collection to a USB which is plugged into the streaming box. Everything else is on a lossless Tidal account which I stream directly via my Note 4 mobile using a NAIM app.

I’m not familiar with the Denon streamer, you’d need to investigate if it was completely open to all services or if it comes embedded like my NAIM. If it’s open then you’ll not need the chromecast. If embedded, it might be best to stick with what’s on offer.

I’d also recommend hard-wiring your router to the streamer via an ethernet cable “Cat7” rather than relying on the in-room signal.

I think you’d be surprised with siting your boxes differently. Why not try a quick experiment?

Put them along the top of the cabibet supported by three small nuts (as in nuts and bolts) with each nut resting on a bit of blutack.

I’d be interested to read about the outcome.

If you can’t access the angel hair cable, I hear the unicorns’ tail alternative offers reasonable results… 😉

PS: @ sadex

Sorry, I’ve re-read the thread and see I’ve assumed your Denon amp is a streamer, which of course it’s not.

Please read my advice as now recommending a separate streamer box to plug into your amp. 😳

I would also recommend visiting a good Hifi retailer with your budget and the advice you have had so far, as your next step…

sorry mate but im still confused. is the denon NOT a streaming box then? this is the bumph that to an audio doofus like me suggests it is……

The Denon DRA-N4 is a sleek and stylish Wi-Fi music system that provides a range of wireless streaming features and delivers a powerful performance at a great price.

Accessing your music collection has never been easier via the DRA-N4’s own integrated Wi-Fi and Ethernet cable connection, supporting Airplay wireless streaming and providing access to lossless streaming of high definition music files through your home network.

Bluetooth streaming is available with simple and easy NFC pairing and features Spotify Connect and internet radio. However you are also able to directly connect your iPhone, iPod and other USB memory devices using the front panel USB port. Both digital optical and analogue audio inputs are available at the rear of the system for connecting to your TV and most other audio devices.

You will be in complete control using Denon’s own Hi-Fi remote app available on Apple and Android devices providing a simple and enjoyable experience.

For a music system that hosts a fantastic range of useful wireless features and functionality while remaining sleek and stylish then the Denon CEOL Piccolo DRA-N4 is perfect.

Looks like a streaming box to me. Appears to only supports Apple devices out of the box?
Actually looks exactly like what I was looking for a year or so ago, wonder if it could stream from my NAS…

Definitely a streaming box – check the manual here. Supports Splotify too.
(tempted!)

Yeah, so in answer to your earlier post, this would be a decent box for you if you nno longer want to use turntable/cassette/minidisc hi-fi units as it’s kind of a replacement for those. For you modern, trendy streaming types.
For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say. The Denon, having the speakers connected directly isn’t really that sort of thing. ie, the speakers (and subwoofer) are the only output it has.
(Not sure what else uses optical out, apart from minidisc…)

Appears to only supports Apple devices out of the box?

what does that mean in real terms? surely its just as easy to use deezer from my android phone/chromebook? connect to wifi, open deezer, play? so how does it serve apple users better?

For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say.

so you have a decent amp and just want a box to enable streaming now yep?

sadexpunk – Member
sorry mate but im still confused. is the denon NOT a streaming box then?

YOU’RE confused. Try being me…

Double 😳

Had a look at it on the interwebs. It’s an integrated streamer and amp in one box…

I’d still recommend a visit to a decent retailer for advice and to listen to the competition (Cambridge?) available at your budget…

what does that mean in real terms? surely its just as easy to use deezer from my android phone/chromebook? connect to wifi, open deezer, play? so how does it serve apple users better?

I don’t think so. It needs some software in the box to be able to connect to the music player in your phone (and vice-versa, I believe). The Apple stuff is built in (Apple Airplay), so works.
(If you Deutsch sprechen – https://youtu.be/1khlj-uKPgQ ) At about 6 mins he shows the Denon app on his iPhone – check the Android apps see if its got one, then I’l be proven wrong. 🙂

For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say.

so you have a decent amp and just want a box to enable streaming now yep?

Maybe, or proably an amp to replace mine with the wifi/usb/bt included.

(Jeez, that German fella has got appalling music taste 😆 )

I’d be keeping the speakers if I was you. Just get the amp repaired or replaced.

Just been into superfi and been yapping to the lad in there. He recommended a Yamaha crx-n470d over the denon, just for the casting app. Ill google it all tomorrow as I’m out now.

He did mention my arcam amp fault is common, it’s the selector knob and described to a T what happens, said he had one too.

And no, I wouldn’t want to be getting rid of the speakers.

Yeah, liking the Yamaha, app supports Apple and Android. It even has a CD player 😀

Reviewed by Dogtanian here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ggMgt-fNso