Possibly, although we still have far more civil liberties in this country than most others.

but why compare yourselves to other countries.. set your own benchmarks.

We all die – yes but before then we get to live, have families, see them grow up, ride some bikes in some nice places. Put simply we get to live and then we die. That’s not nothing – that’s a very big something.

bloody hippies….

my GF is iranian… and she’s beautiful…. some of her cousins, well… stop staring, put ya tongue away material….

it was quite funny when some of them cam e to visit here in Munich. took them to a few bars and clubs. they didn’t know what had hit them. standing there gawping. they could not comprehend that women were running around, drinking, having fun, approaching blokes and touching them!!!

nice people though.

i think some of the younger ones were rluctant to return home. one of the lads had his parents give the state the deeds to their house in order to assure his return.

the GF spent three months there learning the language. she was glad when her time was up. i was glad, too…

there is still a lot of resentment towards the british. they feel that we raped them for their oil. at the same time there is a lot of resentment towards the regime.

at the time of the Shar lots of people wanted change, but they now regret the result of the revolution… there are not that many people who are happy with the current regime, but many are scared of the consequences of speaking up against it.

the population is young. whether that will change the country’s politics in the future, i don’t know. but we can hope…. assuming the seppos don’t do it for them…

That’s all very well alpin, but should we bomb them ?

yeah.. go for it…. sod em… muslim feckers

the population is young.

This is the main point, regime change will happen in Iran naturally, they don’t need us to interfere and force our ‘democracy’ on them.

This is the main point, regime change will happen in Iran naturally, they don’t need us to interfere and force our ‘democracy’ on them

But thats America’s main export isnt it? Democracy. Or is it war?

And Macca D’s. But at least they give us mountain bikes aswell !

Geniuenly stunned by kennyp “nuke ’em” attitide. Either a brilliant troll or your not running a full set of spokes…

But thats America’s main export isnt it? Democracy. Or is it war?

Well as long as democracy votes the way America tells them to

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/8860951/US-withdraws-Unesco-funding-after-it-accepts-Palestinian-membership.html

But thats America’s main export isnt it? Democracy. Or is it war?

don’t forget porn and obesity.

there is still a lot of resentment towards the british. they feel that we raped them for their oil

who can blame them ?

i still won’t eat pizza after what those feckers did to boudica.

don’t forget porn and obesity

And Macca D’s. But at least they give us mountain bikes aswell !

Bike porn that is 😆

Geniuenly stunned by kennyp “nuke ’em” attitide. Either a brilliant troll or your not running a full set of spokes…

At no time did I say “nuke ’em”. I said I’d like to see Iran, and countries like it, being prevented from developing nuclear weapons. Ideally that would be by peaceful means, but if all else fails then use the military. Not an ideal solution, but sadly necessary for the greater good of everyone on the planet.

Why?

what moral grounds do we have for saying we can have this but yo cannot?

Sadly “real-politik” trumps moral idealism as regards this topic. In theory you are right; in practice it comes down to “we can be trusted; you can’t”. Might not be the PC thing to say, but it’s essentially true.

So we can be trusted despite invading other countries and killing millions but peaceful Iran cannot?

Just who is responsible for more deaths the last few decades?

We could of course just go and hug them and ask them to be nice and play nice in future!

What on earth do you think can be done if not military action?

You have to look to the wonderful possibilities for a peaceful future on earth. The current administration of Iran and several other countries really are not helping the world towards such a time.

I do not support war without good cause. Libya was a very bad idea and it’s going to come back to haunt us in years to come (the US knew what they were doing bailing out early there – on top of not wanting to appear to be a world aggressor again – I think a lot of politicians in Europe realised too, but appearing to be so weak was not an option).

Iran is very much a step in the right direction. And yes… Pakistan have nukes and so do some of their neighbours. So we have two options:

We ask them to be nice and really really really hope that they do so… forever and ever.

Or we try to deal with the situation rather than pat the nasty fetid dog in the corner on the head and hope it only bites us when it is very hungry!

Anyone still doubting that people in partnership (to put it mildly) with the Pakistan government are far more important targets that Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden or Gaddafi, really is clinging to an ideal perception of the world rather than what is real and what is going to bite us right on the arse if we aren’t watching.

I always thought that Saudi Arabia was going to be tackled before Iran. I have been very much mistaken. I am encouraged and very pleased to see this possible turn of events.

I also kind of secretly hoped that a lot of foreign policy from the west was down to a UFO grounded in Kuwait during the 1990 invasion from Iraq, leading to a determined effort by the US to retrieve the vehicle before Iraqi scientists gained the knowledge to use it to allow them to become the worlds first hyperpower.

That idea was a lot of fun but things just didn’t turn out that way! 🙂

“but peaceful Iran cannot”

Ouch. Now that is reason to be a little more serious.

You honestly do believe that an Islamist country can be peaceful?

Have you even read the Koran?

I hope you don’t cry ‘myth’ every time the BBC reports on rape victims being stoned to death because it has been written that is the only righteous justice.

Perhaps you do. Some people just believe every day is the day to hug and kowtow to someone who will do harm to others for their archaic beliefs day… and they are so damn desperate to don their post modern hippy clothes they won’t entertain the truth.

Of course an islamic country can be peaceful. Dont be such a bigot. How many peoiple executed int eh US – including people with mental illness and people with lerning difficulties?

Iran has not been at war with anyone for a long time.

How many people have been killed in by iranians since 1990? how many people killed by britons?

We have no right to lecture anyone on morals when we are responsible for the deaths of many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has never attacked any country.

It does not need nuclear weapons. Other than to deter an attack from the United States.

I don’t believe that Iran intends to acquire nuclear weapons – which is in line with US intelligence at the time of the Bush Administration. And if it did acquire them, it wouldn’t bother me anyway.

I’m more bothered about Pakistan having nuclear weapons. And as long as other countries have nuclear weapons, including one which actually used them, I’m not that bothered about Pakistan.

I would like a nuclear-free world. I don’t think Iran is an issue.

Although I do accept that “Iran is getting nuclear weapons” is an excellent excuse to attack an oil rich country which has been a pain the West’s arse. I can’t think of a better excuse, and I doubt whether the Yanks can either.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has never attacked any country.

Does that mean it never will?

How would you know? However the record on agression from Iran is rather better than ours so they have more reason to be afraid of us than we do of them.

Who has killed the most people worldwide in the last 20 years? the UK and the US in alliance. a couple of million innocent civilians

How would you know?

Exactly.

My point is that saying ‘oh it’s never happened before’ is a bit pointless.

Does that mean it never will?

I means that Iran is not a belligerent country. It means that nuclear weapons would be of no use to Iran – other than to deter an attack from the United States. I doubt whether they would bother acquiring them just for that. Besides, there better ways of dealing with that, eg, get the US to stop attacking countries.

Of course things could change in the future, but that can be said about any country. Including ones which we are apparently perfectly happy to have nuclear weapons.

If you can’t trust a country to have nuclear weapons because of what ‘might’ happen in the future, then let’s disarm all countries with nuclear weapons. I’m up for that.

It means that Iran has not been in a position so far to be belligerent. You can’t listen to dinner jacket and tell me he’s not being belligerent, surely to goodness?

It means that Iran has not been in a position so far to be belligerent.

Eh ? Where do you get that from ? Iran was pretty capable of defending itself when it was attacked, at the behest of the United States, by Iraq.

It does have an army, air force, and navy you know. Countries don’t need nuclear weapons to attack other countries.

You can’t listen to dinner jacket and tell me he’s not being belligerent, surely to goodness?

I don’t listen to dinner jacket a lot, who’s he said he’s going to attack ? I know that Israel on an almost daily basis threatens to attack Iraq – are you getting mixed up with that ?

You can’t listen to dinner jacket and tell me he’s not being belligerent, surely to goodness?

What’s worse?

A) Making fiery statements about wiping countries off the map, but not actually doing anything aggressive
B) Attacking country after country, sometimes illegally – resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands (or perhaps millions) of people

It’s funny all this stuff about supposed involvement in assassinations being trotted out as a potential excuse for attack as well – I don’t recall any talk about attacking Russia when they poisoned that guy with Polonium.

Defending yourself is not being belligerent.

If I were a raving nutter looking to throw my weight around, I’d be pretty keen on obtaining the one thing that the West are scared of. A nuke in the hands of a raving nutter.

DJ can’t possibly hope to raise enough of an army to actually commit an act of aggression. But he knows damn well that people will start listening if he has a nuke, because they are so scared of it being used.

Grum – not condoning or condemning anyone with this line of thought – just explaining how people are thinking, as I see it.

I’m just saying, there’s a big difference between belligerent rhetoric and actual aggression AFAIC.

Of course, but the West trust themselves not to start flinging nukes around. They don’t trust DJ. Nor do I, listening to him rant and rave.

They don’t trust DJ. Nor do I, listening to him rant and rave.

I imagine it’s just populist rabble-rousing – I highly doubt he’s actually that stupid. I’d be much more worried about Pakistan TBH – actually has nukes, unstable government, fundamentalist nutters control hefty parts of the country and have a huge sway over much of the population. Don’t think they’ve got any oil though so who cares?

Defending yourself is not being belligerent.

😕 Yes I know.

They don’t trust DJ. Nor do I, listening to him rant and rave.

Well they don’t trust him to hand over Iran’s oil to them at a price which suits them, or better still, let them help themselves, that’s for sure. But as I’ve already stated, under the Bush Administration US intelligence concluded that Iran did not intend to acquire nuclear weapons. That information was however ignored and binned.

And if you molgrips, don’t trust Ahmadinejad, listening to him rant and rave, then I suggest that you stop listening to him. I don’t bother. Besides, if what he says really bothered you, then you believe him when he says that Iran has no desire to acquire nuclear weapons. Personally, what he says has zero influence on me.

among the country’s intellectuals and middle classes the guy is a joke figure.

the GF dad is constantly laughing at and forwarding videos sent to him by his relatives. admittedly these relatives do not live in Iran.

DJ still wields a lot of power and suppost amongst the county’s poor and uneducated – of which there are many. he is seen to be the face of the group that toppled the old, british and US backed system.

Libya was a very bad idea and it’s going to come back to haunt us in years to come (the US knew what they were doing bailing out early there – on top of not wanting to appear to be a world aggressor again – I think a lot of politicians in Europe realised too, but appearing to be so weak was not an option).

whereas the seppo’s little adventures in the gulf and thos hills in the back of beyond were a great idea and have really helped promote US relationships with all countries involved.

i think Lybia is slightly different. there was a strong movement of people calling for a change and the West supported them. whether the West done this to further themslves is another matter.

bollox.. what you said…

The Islamic Republic of Iran has never attacked any country.

Does that mean it never will?

It wasnt long ago that Iran made some comments about ‘wiping Israel off the map’. Thats fighting talk that is….

If you can’t trust a country to have nuclear weapons because of what ‘might’ happen in the future, then let’s disarm all countries with nuclear weapons. I’m up for that.

Its a double edges sword, if you get rid of your own nukes then some rogue state (which Iran is decribed as, and North Korea) aquires their own, then we would all be up sh1t creek without a paddle.

But yes, this is ideally what needs to happen for world peace. That and the eradication of greed. Which is what we is the West are guilty of.

Seeing as neither of these things are likely to happen, looks like we’ll need some UFO’s to come find us or for God himself to drop out of the sky and give us all a slap!

I don’t believe that Iran intends to acquire nuclear weapons

i wish i lived in your world.

is it just a coincidence that the nuclear technology being developed by Iran is perfect for producing weapons?

they’re even producing heavy water – you have permission to shit your pants.

one day, in the next few years, iran will test nuclear weapons*, and the world will have become a much more dangerous place.

i have a curse; i can see the future, and it’s not all butterflies and rainbows.

🙁

yes, we have nuclear weapons, we have no divine right to control the rest of the world. But our weapons were here when we were born, and frankly, they’re a bit of a nuisance.

However, if i lived in Tehran, i’d be concerned by the kind of scary people posturing for election in America. 😯

(*they may not even test them, they may just drive a truck or 4 over some borders, and incinerate a few million europeans/jews/sunni muslims/indians)

they’re even producing heavy water – you have permission to shit your pants.

And if you molgrips, don’t trust Ahmadinejad, listening to him rant and rave, then I suggest that you stop listening to him.

Since when is stopping listening ever a good thing?

Alpin – yes I knew that a great many Iranians think DJ is a nutter. I think that if he could just be replaced the situation would improve significantly. Not sure how many other conservative/hawkish influences there are on govt policy though, isn’t there a clerical system with a big say?

oh, and Iran is already at war with America, in a few small countries (you may not have heard of them) called Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan.

And are we suggesting that america/britain is responsible for all of the deaths in Iraq? – cos that’s bollocxs.

Iran have been providing explosives/weapons/people/training for use against western forces and civilians, for years, probably as soon as Baghdad fell – if not before.

but no, it’s all our fault – Iran is blameless.

dammit, i’m starting to sound like donald rumsfeld…

(yes, i know that Iran has good reason to hate America/Britain, and can be forgiven for worrying about an American/British friendly country being re-forged
on their doorstep)

“oh, and Iran is already at war with America, in a few small countries (you may not have heard of them) called Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan”

The Americans and Rumsfeld in particular paid for and supported The saddam regime in Iraq the Mujahideen and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the Pakistani intelligence who are now supporting the Taliban .

Yes Iran now supplies America’s former allies and puppets but who can blame them after years of America supporting the Shah, setting saddam Hussein on them in a genocidal war and shooting down Iranian passenger airliner’s by mistake and giving a medal and a hero’s welcome to the psychopath who did it.

Dinner Jacket can rant and rave and play with his physics set all he likes but he has a long way to go before he is a credible threat to world peace . regrettably the western powers are already that threat.

Whilst I can see the argument that some countries have nukes so why shouldn’t others I think in certain cases, including Iran, it would be the start of a very slippery slope. Once Iran goes nuclear then the likelihood of them falling into the hands (or being given…) of terrorists goes up a big notch. Also they’re presumably likely to consider trading them to other allies in the region – who all share a hatred of Israel and, even if the state itself wouldn’t condone it, have very influential groups within them that currently support attacks on Israel and it’s Western allies. Nukes are a great deterrent for Nations but not for terrorist groups.

I also don’t buy that Iran is a benign nation – whatever your views on Israel (and might aren’t particularly supportive) they have pretty much pledged to destroy them. I know is I were an Israeli I’d want to strike first. Ofc I’m sure the population as a whole is much more moderate but their president (and I’d guess many around him) is a complete fruitcake.

As for Iran not even wanting nukes – again I don’t buy this, the amount of money they’re investing in centrifuges and the fact they’re developing and testing medium-range rocket systems leads to one conclusion for me – what else can you conclude?