Ok,
So there's a pretty active global warming thread with the usual and expected range of opinions (can't help thinking that anti-global warming sentiment has increased lately). Got me thinking, let's pretend that global warming is definitely NOT a threat. Does that change anything? Does any single one of the things we're doing to try and mitigate it become any less sensible?
While I think global warming could be a threat I'm much more concerned about overall energy consumption and our economic model which is unbelievably short sighted. In short it promotes constant growth and a constant increase in resource consumption.

Does anyone try and minimise their energy consumption without the 'CO2' tag attached?

I've been fascinated by this whole area for a while now and can't help coming to the conclusion that we're heading for the same population growth/crash curve that any species does when faced with a glut of resource. While I have no idea when this will happen (hopefully outside of my lifetime for purely selfish reasons), I can't see us changing our behaviour in time given the massive rate of damage we seem to be causing and our reluctance to do even tiny things about it. To be honest, given the huge amount of people on earth with pitiful living conditions, who can blame any one of them for wanting a bit more.

To make this aimless and incomplete stream of conciousness make more sense, which camp do the forumites fall into:

1. I think it's all a load of bunkum, life will continue as it is now for as long as is relevant. I'll continue to have and do what I want, when I want.

2. I think we're on a flaming 4×4 straight to hell. I'm gonna enjoy it while I can, Long haul flights for everyone!

3. What's energy?

4. Agh! We're all on a flaming train straight to hell! I'll try and minimise my impact from now on. Sandles for everyone!

Obviously these are not the entire gamut of possiblities so I've included some customisable options.

5. [insert text here]

Chop

The only thing I find of significance in this area is investment in a space program.

This planet is finite. We appear to have a great skill at warming up atmospheres. Next stop Mars.

Not worried – they'll sort it all out. And if they don't, we will all be sailing in the same new boat and life will find a way.

5. We'll use up all the energy fairly shortly. This may cause the death of the earth or once we've used it all up the earth will start getting better again.

I like the beauty of the second part of that statement.

I also think that when the fuel runs out it will affect our ability to provide a working health service (globally) and we'll all start dying a lot younger, population problem solved.

Solar farms in the desert areas anyone?

WCA – you mean like these:

There is plenty of energy resources available it is a case of being able to economically produce. The Canadain oil sands, methane hydrates of the east coast of america to name but 2. In fact the methane hydrates have enough energy stored to meet global demand at current levels for the next 1500 years! We just need to work out acheap way t produce all this energy as no-one wants to pay much for it. So realistically the CO2 is going to kill us before the energy runs out

So realistically the CO2 is going to kill us before the energy runs out

YAY!

robbo,
do you have a source for the 1500 years figure? Also realistically how likely is it that we'll be able to extract/use the energy source? I know there are significant problems in transitioning from an oil to a gas based economy.

Thanks

Chop

We'll still have our bikes, so we'll be ok, won't we?

Just think roads empty of cars, just gobs of horse exhaust to splash through. Wunnerful 🙂

Then there is the green algae oil or whatever it is.

When that runs out they are going to convert all cars to run on Chav Corpses.

If we want to avoid runaway climate change, then we can't afford to burn anything like all of our current, known reserves of fossil fuels. At the moment, leaving it in the ground doesn't seem realistic.

ah, but ransos I asked people to pretend that global warming doesn't exist. Does it still make sense to mitigate our energy consumption?

The Governments perception of what will make them (un)popular is still getting in the way.

There are vast reserves of natural energy out there, but still nothing like enough top level committment to investing in the necessary infrastructure to get at it, or store it properly, or doing anything like enough about reducing demand.

So after years of warnings, panic is finally setting in with yet more short-termist thinking, throwing our money instead at new nuclear. – Our kids will be picking up the bill for generations.

Geothermal?

"ah, but ransos I asked people to pretend that global warming doesn't exist. Does it still make sense to mitigate our energy consumption? "

So you did!

It's always made sense to use energy efficiently though, hasn't it? And fossil fuels will become more expensive over time, as known reserves are used up, so alternatives will be exploited that will cost more to extract.

If we were ignoring climate change then the UK is sitting on significant coal reserves, which can also be used to produce gas…

Wiredchops – I cant find a direct link on the internet but some information on here.A lot of it is based on study papers etc http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/oilgas/hydrates/

Realistically there isnt going to be that much available but my point was there is plenty of energy out there. The hydrates of the eastern coast of the US contain 56 trillion barrels of oil equivalence worht of energy and that is just that one deposit.

The reaction with some of these alternative fossil fuels in producing energy produces far more CO2 than currently produced by traditional fossil fuels so again it comes back to CO2.

Renewable sources are still the most important but the energy is there it just needs to be used intheright way

http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/oilgas/publications/methane_hydrates/MHydrate_overview_06-2007.pdf

This one shows the deposits of the methane hydrates etc.

Like you say there will be issues with transferrring to gas but when people have to do it they will!

"The hydrates of the eastern coast of the US contain 56 trillion barrels of oil equivalence worht of energy and that is just that one deposit. "

Yes but have you looked at how much energy is required to extract and refine it?!

Very much the law of diminishing returns…

Yeh of course it is Ransos I agree with you but there is no impending glut of energy coming our way for a while. Everyone gets all excited when they say that oil is going to peak in the next 30 years or so and how are we going to survive. I really believe that we will find a way to do it more economically it is a case of investing in it. At the moment energy companies can make lots of money by selling oil – why would they want to invest loads of that money into researching better methods when they can make a tidy profit for their share holders. And as other people have said governments dont want to invest in it because it isnt in their political interest.

If you want to get an idea of how inefficiently we get through our energy resources, have a look at this:

use

This planet is finite. We appear to have a great skill at warming up atmospheres. Next stop Mars.

I hear this a lot – The trouble is, as far as I can see, everywhere that NASA have been so far is a shithole.

Global warming will solve itself…………………..

That statement relies on 2 things being true
Fossil fuel prices will rise, sustainable/renewable energy costs will fall.

three possible outcomes……..

The point where sustainable/renewable energy is cheeper comes too late, human life is negatively affected (arguably the most likely).

We sort out this mess just in time, everything is hunky dorey

We get too paranoid and go green to ealry, this cost money.

Thats obviously a sliding scale, going renewable 20 years ago would have bankrupted us (so unsustainable) , going renewable/sustainable in the next 20 years is probably doable with global co-operation, going renewable in the next 50-100years will probably have seriously detrimental effects on life as we know it.

The problem is, infastructure has a 25-50 year lifespan, so make a mistake now and we realy are f*******d.

Basically no 1 but I expect oil to get very expensive within the next 20 years but hopefully by then we'll have figured out fusion power or built some more nuclear plants. If not we can did up our own coal reserves. Minimising our own CO2 output is imo a complete waste of time in terms of global warming, even if it does exist.

I do try and minimise my energy usage but only up to the point where it doesn't effect my lifestyle.

The elephant in the room is food production, the current level of yields is based entirely upon the use of Oil to acheive. Farm machinery, fertilisers, etc etc. Take Oil out of the equation and you have a farming system that requires a fundamental change in the way we live, not to mention a lot of hunger and misery during the transition. I hold out no hope of the political classes of this world putting national or personal self interest aside long enough to fix this.

I don't think human kind will die out, we're too resourceful for that, but I do think that there will be in the next 50 to 100 years some terrible strife and even a collapse in the global population. If the ecosystems upon which we depend collapse as well, as they might (the seas are going downhill fast, frightening reduction in diversity) then is going to get pretty nasty for many people living on this planet before the century is out. I do worry about the kind of world my children will be living in when I die.

I can only think that either a what hell have fun while you can attitude, or a personal mission to get closer to self sufficiency, are the two basic options. Not sure which to go for at present!

Population control the only,sustainable way forward ❗

"Population control the only,sustainable way forward"

Energy consumption is much more related to wealth than it is to population numbers.

i'd agree that food shortages and over population will be as big, if not bigger problems, as energy shortages.

our ancestors managed to live through winter without candescant light bulbs, fridges, tv's and the like. they all needed to eat though.

as said by olddonkey, food production is based heavily upon cheap oil prices. can you imagine the bread baskets of america, australia and europe being sown and harvested by horse and hand?

reading all this though i begin to ask myself why the hell we're here in the first place….

And what got us through winter in the olden days were the Forests, that er.. don't exist any more cos we chopped them down to keep us warm. Oh dear.