been to my LBS Today and demo the st4 and orange five, im upgrading from a trek top fuel 2008 reason well i did three trails last week gisburn grisdale and winlatter got to be honest winlatter rules outright for me .ive put hope x2 brakes as an upgrade and hope ztr crest running tubless it gave me and my bike riding a boost but the problem is i felt i reached the limit of my bike not my wanting to do more it was putting me off some of the techyer bits at winlatter.hence the demo i can feel the more plush ride on the 5 but felt it was to much i am prefering the more efficient feel of the st4.i know the st4 has had bad press but ive ridden one i honestly think its great for me and more confidence inspiring. Any thought would be appreciated thanks

i am prefering the more efficient feel of the st4

seriously why care what anyone on here thinks as you ride the bike
I have risers with bar ends

Have you considered a tricycle? You seem to need your hand holding.

If the st4 felt right for you, get it. Stuff ” what everyone else” says.

Get whichever one you want. But first ride some more bikes.

That said, I found the ST4 to be a bit of an inexplicable pointless disaster of a bike- neither one thing nor t’other and combining the worst aspects of 2 sorts of bike. Climb like a big trailbike, descent like an XC bike. But, ymmv. I thought I’d like it but it didn’t take.

You’re the one that demoed them. That, in addition to the fact that you’re you means you’re better qualified to decide than anyone else.

It sounds like you preferred the ST4. So buy the ST4.

Buy the cheaper one.

Use the money left over to buy a big bag of punctuation marks?

ST4’s rock 🙂

Do a search on here + you’ll get various opinions of both bikes.
I like the ST4 as a trail bike + find 5’s overkill (Don’t ride anything over 3′ drops, big jumps, proper DH course stuff). Be worth trying as many different bikes as you can + trust what feels right for you, reviews are just other peoples opinions.

If you are after something to help you out on the techier bits, is your LBS somewhere where you were able to try out this aspect of the 2 bikes? If it isn’t then I would recommend maybe demoing a 5 and an st4 from somewhere like Biketreks in Ambleside and taking it to Whinlatter to see how they perform.
Living in the Lakes I see plenty of Fives but hardly any st4’s (if I have seen any at all) and there may well be a reason for that.

For easyish trail centres such as winlatter you’d be better off on a hardtail.

So far thanks for the positive posts im new to this game.And sorry if i have on my first post somehow upset folk or said something wrong already, i may need a tricycle for my lack of ability buts its not through lack of trying. I did the 3rd round of brownbacks the other month on my topfuel at Lee quarry weekend, warrior class i didnt come last either ,my bike was perfect for that i felt.i have been biking since Feb so am a noob SO Positive posts would be appreciated . I now know i need a bigger boat as it were wanting to do techy stuff and feel my bike is the limit factor not so much me ,so looking at a 120mm st4 and a 140mm orange five and maybe a trek ex8 thanks again for the posts .

THANKS matt_outandabout i was in the lakes last week did gisburn grisdale then winlatter i have demo the two bike around pickering near dalby with my LBS AND they were very helpfull im steering towards the st4 based on
the fact there is more travel slacker head angle and not a massive step up in travel

Demo some other bikes. Oranges are not the only fruit!

As an SC fanboy, how about a BlurLT? Santa Cruz do a few demo days it would be worth tracking one down

I’ll tell you a truth of mountain biking… There’s 2 main ways to choose a bike:
1) Try loads of stuff and make an informed choice based on that
or
2) Buy one that you think looks good without trying much if anything else, then insist it’s your perfect bike.

No idea which is more common but in all honesty people who went with option 2 seem just as happy as option 1, even though the odds that they’re on the most suitable bike for them are far smaller. Most modern bikes are pretty damn good and very few people get close to the edge of their capability, so you’re fairly unlikely to make a totally wrong choice as long as you’re not a total plum, like my mate who bought a Stinky for XC.

Oh, there’s also option 3, which is idiots like me- try loads of stuff, make an informed choice, then try loads more stuff and decide to buy another bike. FOREVER

First of all Chris, sorry for all the idiots on here who feel the need to chime in with pointless posts.

Second of all, reviews are not just anyone’s opinions. They are the views of riders who have a vast amount of MTB experience. Most reviewers have the ability to compare and contrast things inexperienced, or even experienced riders on short test rides can’t. Read the reviews and figure out what your short list should be for the type of riding you do.

Thirdly go ride as many of the bike’s on your short list for as long possible. Third make a balanced decision based on all of the above.

And again, ignore all of the rude, useless, armchair hero posts by folk here.

PS My 2pence is that the five is way overrated. 90’s suspension design made to work OK by clever rear shocks. The ST4 is a smarter design but leaves a bit to be desired in terms of value. I’d look at another manufacturer. Santa Cruz, Giant, Trek, Scott, Felt, Etc.

I’ll tell you a truth of mountain biking… There’s 2 main ways to choose a bike:
1) Try loads of stuff and make an informed choice based on that
or
2) Buy one that you think looks good without trying much if anything else, then insist it’s your perfect bike.

The truest words on this forum for a while!

OP buy the ST4 you’ll love it 😀

I bought it as it was bit livelier on climbs, a bit nippier in handling, a bit lighter, a bit more involving to ride and less ‘over biked 80% of the time’.

If fits that bill brilliantly, and is a bike that is more fun the faster / rockier / more interesting it gets.

chris – dont worry about seeming to upset folk on here. That’s par for the course 😉

I dont have an orange st4 – but very nearly bought one. In the end I got an Commencal which to an outside would look like orange cloned the rear suspension for the st4.

You test rode both of them. You had a preference. You go for it! It’ll be good to see some oranges other than 5’s!

If I were a mate of mine – I’d suggest something really left field – spend a £100 on an hour or two with a mtb coach on the parts you felt you’d reached your limits on. Ok I know that’s going to be seen as a nutty idea and is in no way a reflection on you (or any Orange riders!) – but maybe?

#Edit – that is and was the single cheapest and most useful present anyone has ever bought me and continues to buy me (hint to missus – she drops in sometimes!)

Excellent point Northwind, I have gone from being an 2 to a 1 after a bad experience with a GT iDrive. But I do have a mate who bought a Giant Glory as his main bike, he loves it but he doesn’t half struggle on the climbs.

I can’t claim to be the biggest authority on bikes. But I have owned both an st4 (old model) and a 5. My st4 cracked and under warranty I then changed to the 5.

Reason I changed? Well the crack did put me off the design. I don’t like riding with kit you know there may be a design fault (however small) and secondly the st4 was perfect for 95% of the riding I do. But… The 5 is good for 100%. For example, if you go to afan, both bikes perfect. If you stop off on the way back to cwmcarn, with your ballsier than you mates and decide to do the downhill runs, then IMHO the 5 is your friend. I’ve never done any riding where I find myself yearning for my st4 over my 5.

In summary both great bikes. But I think the 5 is more versatile. You won’t lose out if you choose either. Or you could look at a SC. They ride great too.

Good luck
J

If I were a mate of mine – I’d suggest something really left field – spend a £100 on an hour or two with a mtb coach on the parts you felt you’d reached your limits on. Ok I know that’s going to be seen as a nutty idea and is in no way a reflection on you (or any Orange riders!) – but maybe?

What this man said. If your LBS is the one I think it is, then I think they do coaching too. If it were me, and I was in a similar situation about 3 years ago, I would get the coaching on your current bike, then really start pushing it’s limits. My experience was that I thought my hardtail was a limitation, bought a big bouncy bike, then realised (quite expensively) that it was more fun on a mid-travel hardtail and went back. That said, if you are riding a lot of natural stuff in the lakes, a full susser seems to make sense for most people.

Why not try buying second hand from the classifieds here? Then if you fancy trying something else, it won’t cost you much to swap.

The longer you read STW, the more you realise people rarely give an answer that directly addresses your question… 😀

Orange Fives seem to invoke bizarre responses on STW, for whatever reason. I can’t comment on the ST4 but it’s more bike than we all need 90% of the time.

I ride a Five, and I think the acid test in whether you like a product is if you’d buy one again. I would, if I had the money! It’s a cracking bike and let’s me get away with all sorts of bad technique!

However, I don’t have the money anymore, so I would almost certainly get a boardman fs, if I had the requirement to get a new bike now. Thankfully the five is every bit as good as the day I bought it 2 years ago.

I’d also consider if you’re favouring the ST4 because it feels more ‘familiar’ (i.e. closer to your current bike) rather than ‘betterer’.

Not saying it’s bad to get a bike that’s comfortable from the off but if you’re looking for something that’ll take you beyond what your old bike could then maybe a different feel is a good thing?

(and ignore the idiots).

Perhaps dont bother with a new bike, and instead spend some money on a skills course with Jedi. http://www.ukbikeskills.co.uk/aboutus.html

Whinlatter is a piss easy trail centre, you can ride it fine on a rigid single speed. Buying a new bike wont solve your riding problems.

But if you have money to burn, go for it.

I love Fives but there just a bit expensive. You can get just as good a bike for half the money. When I replaced my Five I bought a Rocky mountain altitude for 1700. Look at cube, mondraker, lapierre etc. You can get a specialized Camber for 1200 now

Five all the way. I’ve ridden both and just found the 5 to be potentially the more flexible (in a good way) of the two. Also depends what kind of riding you do of course but for me I’d go with the 5….suits my riding style more.

Northwind – Member

my mate who bought a Stinky for XC.

When I started biking, I bought a Kona hardtail. But in truth, all I really wanted was an army green stinky. If I’d had the cash, I’d have bought it. Would have been such a dumb thing to do.

😯 @ Junkyard 😉

Northwind’s post should be a sticky! Sage advice for all bikers.

Riksbar – Who would like to think he’s a 1, but is actually a 2

Kona had a questionnaire on their site which guided you to the right bike for you, scientifically proven. I knew what I wanted from the pictures so carefully answered the questions in such a way that it was the one recommended at the end – and I managed that on my first attempt too!

Which just goes to show, doesn’t it.

davidtaylforth – Member

Perhaps dont bother with a new bike, and instead spend some money on a skills course with Jedi. http://www.ukbikeskills.co.uk/aboutus.html

thanks for the recommend dude

Welcome!
Don’t worry about some of the **** on here 😉