In a business, no one is telling you what to do, you have to figure it out on your own and you have to compete in what is often a crowded and complex market place. You’ve no way of knowing whether the decisions you make are right or wrong and if you get it wrong you’re out of a job.

What a huge generalisation. The parts of the private sector i've worked in are nothing like that. Plenty of people get things wrong, and they can carry on. As grum has said there is a huge fiction about the public vs private sectors and stuff like efficiency, perfect competition etc. I used to work for Tesco and there were massive amounts of waste and so many incompetent managers it was laughable.

Better working hours? What do you base that on?

I think it's called 'overtime' although I can't be sure because I've never been paid 'overtime' ever despite sometimes putting in 20 hours a week more than my contract stated.

[/quote]talking about pension reform in the public sector

Emphasis here on the word 'talking'. Talk is very cheap. Public Sector pensions are not.

is job security better given impending cuts

Not now it isn't. Brace yourselves guys. Oh and for **** sake make sure you've got mortgage insurance. It's not expensive and will save you life in the event you get made redundant.

Our local Council head gets paid well over £200k

That's a lot of money. In the open market (presumably that's how they recruited him/her?) that should get you a capable individual. What would paying less get you?

It's a culture of job security, waste and a huge pension in many cases

I can't speak for the job security or waste, but there are huge pensions for very, very few in the public sector. On average the wonderfully cushy index-linked final salary pensions which are coming under attack are around the £4k mark. Since that's based on final salary, how piss-poor were these people's wages during their working lives?

Your little diatribe is a synthesis of all the anti public sector spin that's now coming at us from all sides, and it does't compute.

Your little diatribe is a synthesis of all the anti public sector spin that's now coming at us from all sides, and it does't compute.

You know you may well be right and I would extend an olive branch now and say that a lot of the diatribe, from me and everyone else is based in part on what we see, hear and learn from the world around us and in part on miss held perceptions.

But the reality is that there is a lot of resentment of the public sector from those in the private sector just now, and you really have to ask why, because it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. This is a game just like any other; what is 'real' has very little to do with it, the game is structured around what people believe and you have to adapt your strategy around that.

I fear for many people in the public sector because you're going to get hit really hard in the next few years and having been there myself, I know it's not pretty. The real question is, what are you going to do when it happens? Those of us in the private sector who have already been through this pain had to get on and make the best of it. I hope that the public sector can do the same.

johnners – most of our clients are public sector. We advise on strategy for the public sector. We go right under the skin of public sectors organisations and help them have more impact – some do really well with often limited resources, others just couldn't organise a pi55 up in a brewery.

Your tone suggests that I just read a few tabloids and make assumptions – you couldn't be more wrong.

The reason for resentment of the public sector – as I said they spend money and rarely make it. And they spend OUR money. So when money is seen as wasted (I bet a £100k head of the Council could do the job just as well) then anger rises. Some of it is just naive jealousy, some of it has a point.

The fact is that too many are being paid six figure sums for jobs that just don't justify it. The jobs market is pretty limited for senior execs – if they can't survive on more sensible pay, they really need to consider a shelf stacking job at a supermarket – that's where many out of work private sector ex execs now are.

I resent the pay of COs in the public sector and I work in the public sector. Their pay is yet another manifestation of increasing inequality in terms of income and wealth in this country. The fact that people may have anecodotal evidence of incompetence and inefficiency doesn't mean the whole organisation is like that. Also with reference to this public/private dichotomy, all of my budgets get spent on private suppliers so if I face cuts it will quickly impact on the private sector incomes.

Just had confirmation of a nice contract from a well known public sector client (10 minutes ago). I love the public sector 😉 Their execs can get paid what they want…

There has always been an incessant drip of briefing against the public sector in general and it's turned into a torrent over the past couple of years. From many of the posts on this thread it's evident that it's working well. A future administration will be able to cut public sector jobs to a chorus of approval, and when the public services suffer as a result that can be spun as a consequence of the laziness and incompetence of the remaining public servants. Win-win.

I fear for many people in the public sector because you're going to get hit really hard in the next few years

Why are you assuming I'm in the public sector? I'm not, and my future job prospects are looking sketchy at best. That doesn't mean I have any misplaced envy for public servants.

The reason for resentment of the public sector – as I said they spend money and rarely make it

The whole reason for the public sector to exist is to provide public services funded from taxation. Resenting it because it takes money to do so is odd.

Just had confirmation of a nice contract from a well known public sector client

So you work for the public sector, and are being wholly funded from taxation. That puts you squarely in the firing line…

Errmmm – no. I run a company that has a few public sector clients. We have a decent number of private sector clients too. Thanks for asking.

You seem to be struggling to grasp a simple concept – people get irritated when public sector organisations appear to WASTE money on things like daft exec salaries. Of course they don't resent money being spent – that's what the public sector is there for. It has an enormous "client" base and guaranteed billions in income – somehow it often manages to waste this huge stream of revenue.

overtime in the public sector? cool I'm off to find the right form to fill in………..

Actually only ever been paid overtime in the private sector

I can oly share my experiences as a teacher. 1) MK will still have the London enhancement of salary. 2) Enen the headie of a huge school is not earning £100k +.30 It is difficult for the head teacher to take on a regular class as the have to be able to attend any "happening" in the school.HT also needs to meet any number of parents when they complain because their wee darlings history teacher has dared to suggest that a school tie is a better investment that new trainers. 😳 3) Schools, even where I teach,my email gives a clue,will not exclude because of the league tables,hence kids informing you that you are an effing c,will not be removed.

On to the public sector gravy train,I qualified 6 years ago,1 in 8 got a job.Now a lot of Councils are giving temp contracts,two years being the usual.The idea that we do few hours for a decent salary is a laugh,50 per week min,same as everybody else,and that is before I factor in rugby,DoE etc. I would imagine.Somebody posted above that once you had a years worth of notes you had it made.Not in my experience.I was a shopfitter and put through 50% more in salary in my final year at that that I will at top of scale as a teacher.Aberdeenshire recently offered every teacher over the age of 55 a lump sum to retire.So job security is no longer one of the attractions.

That said, I love the job

A future administration will be able to cut public sector jobs to a chorus of approval, and when the public services suffer as a result that can be spun as a consequence of the laziness and incompetence of the remaining public servants. Win-win.

Back to the 80's anyone? You can remember that far back can't you?

Surf-Mat, I'm just struggling to grasp how you can spout absurd generalisations like "It's a culture of job security, waste and a huge pension in many cases".

Thanks for asking.

Kettle

Black

Pot

Now I am all for people getting on in life and being paid a decent salary, but £38k would put that person into roughly the top 15% of earners in the UK. Do we really think that a PA to the head teacher of a mid sized school (or any public sector school for that matter) does a job that justifies a salary in the top 15% of UK salaries?

And don't forget to add on around 37% to this salary to get the equivalent private sector rate with parity on their pensions!

£38k is not a bad salary, but it's not great either. The 37% pension adjustment makes it very good however. If someone is absolutely outstanding in their field, I reckon this is a fair rate.

If only 15% make it to this level of income, this demonstrates what a poor country the UK actually is. Wage inequality is a massive issue when you consider the misery this causes with the cost of acquiring things like a home. I'm begining to sound like a lefty, but what is needed is some sort of balance between unashamed capitalism and the commercial naivety of the socialist ideals.

Now look at Premiership footballers. Some make £140,000 a week!. Sure, they are outstandingly talented and many argue they should get this sum as a result (I certainly don't!). There are outstanding people in all areas of work. Take a teacher who is simply jawdroppingly brilliant, who stands head an shoulders above his/her colleagues. What extra money are they going to get paid for their extraordinary ability? A couple of grand per annum?

So yeah, if a school needs a top performing PA, the money on offer is about right. However, if they take on any old PA who's just got a lot of experience, but is mediocre and/or not motivated, it's a waste of ratepayers and tax payers money.

MK will still have the London enhancement of salary

Not sure if it does to be honest, I'm in Reading and dont even get the lower London fringe addition….. You Scottish teachers get paid more as well dont you…if only I could convince the Mrs to move away from London….

I love the idea that public sector jobs just involve spending money which is easy… I get to spend exactly nothing as a classroom teacher and dont have to make any money so my job should be piss easy!!

A-A, but we have the best education system in the world,of course we get more! six years in £32,000 FWIW. I have just managed to convince my PT to get a different size of jotters for next year,such waste of the taxpayers money!