Wife bought a Citroen Berlingo 2ltr HDI from a garage in Manchester on Saturday, just been serviced (apparently). 2003ed' Low milage, approx £3K with years insurance thrown in.

She drove home to Notts Via Leeds, got to the outskirts of Notts and black smoke out the front, white smoke out the back. Possible head gasket.

We've spent every penny we have on this car (We can't even afford a Christmas tree this year) and now have either a possible reapir bill of massive proportions or a fight on our hands to get our money back.

Suggestions welcomed

Was that the drive home from the dealers? If so, I'd have taken it straight back again…….

Yep, straight from the dealers bar a lunch stop in Leeds.

Taking it anywhere is impossible without the aid of a two truck.

The AA towed it to a nearby garage, their (The AA) initial diagnosis of contaminated fuel was wrong, current thought by the garage is a blown head gasket, which may cost more than the car to repair.

Have you spoken to the garage you bought it off yet?

how did you pay for it?

Have they refused to take it back? If so then speak to citizens advice and trading standards and take it from there. I don't believe cars are exempt from the sale of goods act.

We're waiting for a full diagnosis so we do't get fobbed off with a load of cr4p when we ring up saying it's dead. We'd like the amunition of saying you sold us a car with XX fault.

Paid cash deposit and then debbit card for the rest on the day.

So 'just riding along' then…?!

What sort of dealer big showroom or back street plot or?

yep got a free gearbox fitted when mine fell apart.

how did you pay? credit card?

Mudshark, yep exactley that- approaching lights, slow down then whoosh smoke and no engine.

Thomthumb, I paid cash (well via a debbit card).

If the supplying garage won't play ball with you – start looking at the possibility of asking your bank for a 'Chargeback' on the card

Record all phone calls with them

Surely it would be worth ringing them today to see what they say, if you ring them in a weeks time they would be less likely to believe the "on the way home" part of the story.

When you buy privately you buy sold as seen but would have thought with a garage there would be some level of cover

agree with steve-g – the sooner you talk to them the less able they are to wriggle. I'd have phoned them as soon as it happened and got them to sort out recovery etc, tbh.

You do have some protection buying from a trader and sale of goods act does apply.

Get onto them and tell them you are returning it for your money back

Your rights are clear return the car and get a refund and do it today.

Cancel the payment with your bank too.

I cant beleive your waiting, you should have rung them imediately, now you look daft waiting, like your trying to vindicate yourself in some way…

You have rung them now surely?

Headgasket is never more than a 3k car, your getting some awful advice from somewhere.

3K for a head gasket??? When the cam belt went on my Astra it involved me forking out about £350 of my hard-earned dosh. That included a couple of valves and gaskets. Someone is 'aving a larf.

As above, the garage you bought it off should have been one of your first calls. They may even have paid for the car to be recovered direct to them.

Now from the garages point of view i would look at things like this.

2003 reg car
Just serviced
Just sold
Nice happy customer

Lets be helpfull!!!

If its a gasket (It happens and is not something a service would nexxessarily bring up) then get it replaced asap.

Would i offer a refund – Why should they? They have supplied a 2003 reg car which has unfortunately gone a little wrong. They havent even been given the oppertuntity to sort it.

OR ARE WE LEAVING OUT SOMEWHERE THAT YOU MAYBE BARTERED THEM DOWN BY INSISTING YOU WANTED NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND AND AS SUCH YOU HAVE BEEN BITTEN BACK IN THE ARSE?

Hobo, not at all.

No need for the nasty shouty capitals. It's our first car, my wife passed her test three weeks ago and I can't even drive, I bike everywhere.

We bought what we belived to be a good car after a test drive, a look over by my Father in law and faith in the dealers promises of a recent service etc. I'll hold my hand up to nievety here as I belived a service checked for faults etc so something like this wouldn't happen.

At the time in three lanes of Saturday night Christmas traffic it was deemed to be more important to call the AA as they could actually tow the thing out the way or more importantly fix what could have been a minor fault. Phoning a man 120 miles away wouldn't actually get the thing fixed and on our drive which was/is our priority.

The AA suggestion was that it had got petrol in it's diesal fuel line somehow and seeing as we had filled it up (from a diesal pump!) just after leaving there was the posibility that the fault lay with us somehow. It wasn't until today that a garage mechanic actually got to look at the car and dissmissed this idea.

As for warranty, it was a small one man dealership who offered to pay for a years tax and the recent service was deemed to serve as a quality garuntee.

I'm just trying to sort the mess out that my wife has got into as (sexist comments unwelcome) my wife handled everything and I have yet to lay eyes on the car. My part was earning the cash to pay for it and I had/have faith in her abilites to be no more or less savvy when it comes to cars than me. 😥

Have you contacted the seller yet though?

So you have phoned the dealer now though?

Your next step is to contact the seller and see what he says.

Yes, am trying to contact the sellar at the moment.

I agree 100% with comments re' contact, but have been a little hampered by being the third party in all this (albeit the chump who stumped up the money) so therefore lacking all the details as I wasn't there on the day. My father in law and wife did the whole going to the garage together as Father Daughter thing.

Have you spoke to him yet or has he gone on holiday with your money……….?

Yeah, whats the outcome, I am getting in a rage on your behalf here!!

I looked into this recently when considering buying a Octavia VRS estate from a Skoda dealer (who told me they wouldn’t offer a warranty but could offer me an aftermarket). A Trader has a duty of care. They can not offer a car as ‘sold as seen’ or ‘trade sale’ to a consumer.

I would recommend posting here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=23&mid=70159

Its full of savy-traders etc etc who all share a passion for cars.

He can't get off the hook by saying hes a 'by appointment only'/'Im not really a trader'/'I just do this on the side' either.

OK news so far…..

I finally got my wife to stop rocking back and forth and repeating "it's all my fault" and actually give me the name and number of the dealer etc and have made some calls.

The dealer has asked to be put in contact with the garage, should it be the head gasket he'll give us a full refund and arrange to get the car to his to fix/dump at his leisure.
Should it be anything cheaper/else he will make an arrangemnet with the garage.

I laid it on thick about the car not even getting home and my wife being stranded.

I will keep you all updated and will retire to bed tonight wiser than when I got up (although I am at present still £3K out of pocket and getting public transport at Christmas).

Thanks for all your help and advice.

I laid it on thick about the car not even getting home and my wife being stranded.

Sounds like you did it right. Hope you get it sorted. 🙂

That sounds like a decent response from a reasonable dealer.

OR ARE WE LEAVING OUT SOMEWHERE THAT YOU MAYBE BARTERED THEM DOWN BY INSISTING YOU WANTED NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND AND AS SUCH YOU HAVE BEEN BITTEN BACK IN THE ARSE?

What are you going on about! Even if they don't offer a six month platinum warranty (which in our case actually turned out to be the most basic warranty offered out of about six available, and one of the clauses was 'nothing electrical is covered' plus the dealer had technically voided the warranty on day 1 as he didn't get the service book stamped when he got it serviced!) they are still bound to comply with all the trade descriptions stuff. Its just pinning the dealer down which is difficult, but in this case it sounds like its going the right direction 🙂

Had a friend at work recently who bought a vehicle, dealer was 100 miles away so offered to bring it halfway to meet and conclude the deal, he turned up with it on a trailer, and it cut out 20 miles later on the way home. Dealer had already admitted it had a problem but had fixed it by changing the fuel pump. Long story cut short, friend lived with the problem for a month or two and let the dealer get away with not returning calls. Ended up getting it fixed off his own back (£1600) and planned to get the dealer to pay for it. Suprise surprise, dealer was having none of it. Friend just sold it last week for considerably less than he paid for it, plus lost the money he paid getting it fixed 😯 I told him to pursue the dealer and give him the choice of getting it fixed or refunding it, no dealer is going to want to pay another garage to fix a car if they can do it cheaper themselves.

Right spooky. The reason i mentioned that was because the guy is so obviously playing on his/his wifes lack of knowledge to 'lay it on thick'. Sometimes it happens that they are not as simple as they sound and try it on. Of course i would hope they werent but its always good to have both sides covered which is why i also put it at the end, after some good advice which sounds like it was how things panned out.

I didnt say he was trying it on, i asked if he had bartered such a deal where they ask for no warranty etc to get a cheaper price. You say its impossible but over the years i have seen it hundreds of times and usually ensure that it is stated on the invoice as sold for parts or repair and get the customer to sign to the effect that they have insisted on no warranty. That is all. Customer gets cheaper price, we get no responsibility. Dealers get customers asking if they have any 'trade' vehicles to sell on all the time.

The fact that you got shafted by a dodgy dealer doesnt mean that a customer cant ask for something in return for a discount and be given it from a 100% honest dealer.

Glad you are getting it sorted out although it does look like your confidence in the dealer/vehicle isnt there so a refund would probably be best allround

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/CARS/buying/your_legal_rights.jsp

The reason i mentioned that was because the guy is so obviously playing on his/his wifes lack of knowledge to 'lay it on thick'.

Where? All he has said is that he emphasised the point it broke down on the way home and stranded his wife! Mechanical competence hasn't come into it. And your capitalised post was before the OP went into detail.

i asked if he had bartered such a deal where they ask for no warranty etc to get a cheaper price.

From where I'm sitting, its being shouted and comes across as an accusation that the OP is at fault!

The fact that you got shafted by a dodgy dealer doesnt mean that a customer cant ask for something in return for a discount and be given it from a 100% honest dealer.

Me or the OP? I didn't get shafted, the car was fine and the warranty was thrown in extra, I wouldn't have paid a fiver for it. Even though I knew it wasn't worth anything, it was still eye opening just how much was excluded.

Glad you are getting it sorted out although it does look like your confidence in the dealer/vehicle isnt there so a refund would probably be best allround

From here it looks like everything is on course to be sorted amicably. You also suggest a refund which goes against your earlier comment – Would i offer a refund – Why should they? They have supplied a 2003 reg car which has unfortunately gone a little wrong. They havent even been given the oppertuntity to sort it.

I'll grab my coat now as I don't want to be drawn into an argument 🙂

I've got money back before rejected a few cars and got money back for poor valeting and general service.

Good luck and hope it works out.

i got a full refund on an Audi A6 a couple of months ago after the gearbox went.

Know your rights and stick to your guns, they refused to refund, tried to back out, tried to intimidate me etc but basically had to refuse to leave the office until i got a refund which they did

Swisstony: "Getting a new gearbox fitted is like making love to a beautiful woman…"

😉

swisstony- I remember that. Also that those A6 autobox's are nortorious for that as well?

Hobo, this isn't the first time we have disagreed, I think you were wrong to pre-judge the OP. Your right in some of what you say though, the only way a dealer can sell a car without warranty is to write sold as spares/scrap in very big letters all over the invoice.
The fact remains that a dealer has to offer a 3 month warranty on any car they sell, regardless of what they tell you, or try to fob you off that it's your fault for not taking out that extending warranty for £1000.
Beyond that a car has to last a reasonable time for the money exchanged.
TBH the courts hate dealers, just stand your ground & say you'll take it to the small claims court, you'll get there in the end.

And if Practical Matt wants an Xmas tree then I'll buy him one, email in profile, & as long as its bought on line & collected by you I'm happy to do it if it makes your Xmas, I won't send cash in the post though 😉

Cheers.

At what point did i prejudge the OP? I added it at the end as an alternative option that i have seen happen on many occassion. My original points actually track the thread quite closely in the OP's follow up post. If i had prejudged i would have started with the phrase "IMO you have" and not even bothered with the helpfull advice i offered.

Oh and if you have been in the trade for a while you will be familiar with customers asking for 'trade' vehicles without warranty. I had it last week and the customer was quite offended when i laughed and asked him to define 'Trade'. His response was a vehicle he could buy off me cheap and without warranty, then sell on after 12mths for no depreciation. I asked what was in it for me, to which he replied nothing. I said exactly!!!

Lets get this straight, a dealer has a responsibility, even if he isnt even 'trading' from a premises. There is a minimum requirement which has been covered here already. What i was pointing out was

1) The customer hadnt given the garage the chance to be helpfull
2) The customer had obviously lost confidence in the garage/car without even giving things a chance to be rectified correctly
3) I suggested as a dealer in that situation i would not be offering a refund (Please point out whether this is incorrect?) WOuld you give a refund on a car that had blown a gascket after a few miles when it was of a certain age and value? Hell i have seen new vehicles with less problems.
4) I followed up by pointing out that because the customer has lost confidence in the garage/car that a refund was prob best. Reason for this wasnt just from the customer point of view but also the garage. It tends to be something that lingers and causes stress for both parties

You guys need to stop being so defensive when someone suggests an alternative point of view. I was trying to be helpfull but also with eyes wide open. Its the way the world is and helps people being taken advantage of.

Oh and i left that CAPs lock on all afternoon at work. I dread to think what the people i emailed thought of me…..

TBH the courts hate dealers, just stand your ground & say you'll take it to the small claims court, you'll get there in the end.

You reckon he will be successfull in court?
He hadnt even given them the chance to sort it. The garage cant reasonably be expected to predict a blown head gasket on an 03 car. Get real. What they can be expected to do is put it right at little inconvenience to the customer.