From Gordon Brown’s speech today. I could be very wrong but I think Labour are going to do better in Scotland than many think.

While for the SNP the pursuit of nationalism is their goal, we believe in partnership, and that real progress is not some progressing at the expense of others but all of us progressing together. So it could never have been Scottish nationalism but only Scottish Labour that led the way to a minimum wage across the whole of the UK, to stop the good region undercutting the bad and the bad nation undercutting the worst in a cut-throat race to the bottom – and it is a minimum wage that we will convert into a £8 an hour minimum wage

And that is why there can be no deal, no tie-in, no arrangement and no compromise with an SNP for whom nationalism is the imperative they serve.

Not because we are taking the low road of electoral calculation.

But because we have taken the high road of supporting the very principles of cooperation that the SNP want to break; the principles of partnership that the SNP would smash; the principles of sharing that the SNP would bring to an end; and the principles of solidarity that the SNP would throw into the dust.

And that’s the difference.

The nationalists wake up in the morning thinking of how to advance the cause of a separate state.

We wake up in the morning thinking of how to advance the cause of social justice.

Their aim is a second referendum. Our aim is a fair economy.

Is it just me or does anyone else immediately regret clicking on these election threads? 🙁

Is it right to extrapolate this to wider Scottish society ? What ever the answer it certainly reinforces the steriotypes.

Is this todays gem 😆

A good article on why you shouldn’t vote for Ed as he is an economic idiot

He taught economics at Harvard

Nice article on the portrayal of the SNP there as the threat and the personalisation of it all. We all agree Clegg is a spineless shit who will do anything for power but we portray her and the SNP as the villains here.

Lol, Gordon Brown.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The only reason Labour has ever stopped “the good region undercutting the bad and the bad nation undercutting the worst” is because nowhere has ever or will ever be allowed to compete with London. What did Labour ever do for the communities left behind by the Thatcher era once they gained power? Nothing, because they always knew they could rely on habit over rational thinking, abandon their principles and instead chase the vote of the middle classes.

As long as Labour retains the same old faces and principles (or lack thereof) for better or worse they will be as toxic as the Tories up here.

Unfortunately, unless voters wise up and their habits change to rational thinking we are doomed to see the whole cycle repeat itself all over again.

From Gordon Brown’s speech today. I could be very wrong but I think Labour are going to do better in Scotland than many think.

Yup, Gordon Brown’s definitely got his finger on the pulse of Scottish political opinion 😀

What did Labour ever do for the communities left behind by the Thatcher era once they gained power? Nothing, because they always knew they could rely on habit over rational thinking

Not quite true. I’ve said it before but take a drive round any northern city or town and you’ll see loads of brand new schools, health centres and hospitals, libraries, sports centres and community centres. Sure they may not have redressed the balance in terms of jobs and incomes, but they were hardly going to rebuild the old industries in 10 years or provide new ones. You are right though in that labour take the votes of northern working class voters for granted. Unfortunately their reaction to that is to jump on the anti-immigrant bandwagon and pander to ingnorance.

He did OK last time they wheeled him out 🙂

@squirellking “no one will ever be allowed to complete with London” ? Really where did that come from 😐 As for communities left behind hundreds of thousand of people every year are prepared to travel across the world to live and work in the UK. London and the South sends billions and billions (34 in fact) to the rest of the country every year to pay for education, health and welfare.

The most striking thing about this election is the fact that it seems to have taken place in a reality vacuum especially on the fiscal front

Ganesh wraps it up well in today’s FT as “The carnival of nonsense and futility…the campaign has embarrassed this country with its studious avoidance of little things such as fiscal reality and the state of the worlds….a country that has not balanced a budget since 2002 has developed the bravado of a country with a SWF, forever arguing with itself about how to use surplus revenue that does not exist….the NHS…has not had a serious word said about it…..[it goes on]”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/6e4ba78c-f00e-11e4-bb88-00144feab7de.html#axzz3ZFQkouGr

Good job none of this is important 😉

The legacy of the referendum – the democratic process descends to a carnival of nonsense and futility!!

He did OK last time they wheeled him out

For the Referendum? Well, he promised lots of stuff he wasn’t in a position to deliver (“Something close to home rule” was the quote I think), but surveys afterwards showed that the last-minute No stuff didn’t really make much difference.

So if by “okay” you mean he managed to appear in public without calling someone a bigot, then yes, he did okay 🙂

teamhurtmore – Member

The legacy of the referendum

LAWL

The legacy of the referendum – the democratic process descends to a carnival of nonsense and futility!!

Oh, for the love of Mike, give it a rest, will you? Fine, you’re smarter than everyone else, the whole of Scotland has suddenly gone mad and stopped listening to hard economic realities, which only you and your economist mates properly grasp. We get it.

Just for fun, YouGov have just released the Scottish data from their last survey – the questions on party leaders are good:

Do you think Nicola Sturgeon is doing well or badly as First Minister?

Well: 75% (+7)
Badly: 19% (-7)

Net rating: +56

Do you think that Jim Murphy is doing well or badly as leader of the Scottish Labour party?

Well: 27% (-5)
Badly: 62% (+8)

Net rating: -35

That’s a 91 point difference between them. Not all that many people fussed about the helicopter, it seems 😉

bencooper – Member
We get it.

It took time, but yes that was the main reason for the way the vote turned out. Phew, it was close.

Hasn’t stopped the on-going nonsense about fiscal responsibility though has it? Independent commentators can give it a rest when the source dries up! 😉 Otherwise, it should remain open to due scrutiny.

Indeed the FT article relates this to all the main parties at the moment, and I agree.

It took time, but yes that was the main reason for the way the vote turned out. Phew, it was close.

Well, no, it wasn’t. Not according to the post-referendum surveys. The most popular reason for voting No was good old-fashioned British nationalism, people felt British and believed in the Union.

At last some local interest in the campaign. Here in Todmorden you would barely notice there’s an election going on at all, but thanks to our local Tory MP, Craig Whittaker, Calder Valley is now back on the electoral map (in a small way) thanks to the following tweet:

“Trust Labour? I’d rather trust Jimmy Savile to babysit”

I’d like to think it’ll make a difference, but sadly I think we’ll still be stuck with him come Friday.

The most popular reason for voting No was good old-fashioned British nationalism, people felt British and believed in the Union.

Serious question, is it really the case that the economics of being a tiny country in a world where size really matters, without a clear vision of what currency you would use or whether you would be in the EU where not more important factors ?

Very good on the Brown remarks above

Finally just for record you said “everyone” above, I for one am not admitting that tmh is smarter than me, not publicly anyway

Serious question, is it really the case that the economics of being a tiny country in a world where size really matters, without a clear vision of what currency you would use or whether you would be in the EU where not more important factors ?

“Too many unanswered questions” was the second most popular reason for voting No, apparently – a few percentage points behind. So yes, the economics mattered to people too, they just weren’t the top reason.

jambalaya – Member
From Gordon Brown’s speech today. I could be very wrong but I think Labour are going to do better in Scotland than many think.

Aye, they’re busy digging up the dead for their postal votes as usual.

Are the Tories worried about stiff competition?

The legacy of the referendum – the democratic process descends to a carnival of nonsense and futility!!

I’m not sure it is a product of the referendum or if it developed alongside it as a consequence of the increased use of social media since the last election, and every meathead’s opinions going viral, but there is definitely a nasty hostile streak that is still present on both pro SNP and anti sides, and is persisting into this election. I have a couple of fanatical SNP friends who share really unpleasant/made up stuff on facebook, it was enough to swing me away from yes in the referendum and it is still bafflingly going on. It makes me dislike the SNP which isn’t the right reason to not ‘like’ a party, Sturgeon is probably the strongest party leader there is right now.

Interestingly I see the SNP suspended two members who disrupted that creepy plonker Murphy’s thing yesterday, somewhat contradicting the chat yesterday that they weren’t SNP members or anything to do with the SNP! The party must be banging their heads in frustration at people like that.

https://www.facebook.com/pagealbagubrath/photos/a.538722776260646.1073741829.538356006297323/643679479098308/?type=1&theater

More disgusting violence from unionists in the run up to the election, but no media coverage?!

From all my posts today, a woman had to go to A&E, unionists attacked an SNP branch, and now more unionists have attacked an SNP convoy! But hey that doesn’t matter! The only thing that matters is that Jim Murphy got shouted at by “Violent Nationalists” and so it deserved the attention of the mainstream media to give the SNP a bad name! Labour and their dirty, twisted, scaremongering bulls**t!!

For balance as the coverage seems so one sided

They weren’t the brightest!

Vote Now!

Hahaha oh dear. In the defense of Nicola, I took “it had nothing to do with the SNP” to mean they didn’t organize it, didn’t condone it and it they weren’t there promoting pro SNP values, just anti Labour ones. Stupid thing to do and they’ve rightly been suspended. All the talk in the media about the violence involved was so over the top. Doesn’t do their credibility any favours.

@squirellking “no one will ever be allowed to complete with London” ? Really where did that come from As for communities left behind hundreds of thousand of people every year are prepared to travel across the world to live and work in the UK. London and the South sends billions and billions (34 in fact) to the rest of the country every year to pay for education, health and welfare.

Methinks you answered your own question there.

Of course HS2 was about an economic injection to provincial cities, nothing at all about extending the London commuter belt.

And of those hundreds and thousands how many are going to be setting up home in ex-mining towns? Ex-ship building towns? Ex-manufacturing towns? Every shithole I see has been a victim of heavy industry closing down with little in the way of prospects for those left behind. But it’s okay because there are always jobs down south so long as you’re prepared to live like crated veal to afford it.

No, if London and the SE had serious competition it would collapse, probably bringing a property crash along with it. Who the hell would want to pay through the odds to live at the other end of the country in a congested sprawl when they could have a similar standard of living just down the road?

That’s what I meant and tbh I don’t think you are really that naiive.

I’m not sure it is a product of the referendum or if it developed alongside it as a consequence of the increased use of social media since the last election, and every meathead’s opinions going viral, but there is definitely a nasty hostile streak that is still present on both pro SNP and anti sides, and is persisting into this election.

It’s on all sides, really, and not just in Scotland – equally meatheaded stuff coming from the supporters of all parties all over the UK. Especially UKIP of course.

Though the most toxic stuff isn’t a bunch of people on Twitter, it’s what’s coming out of the right-wing press and politicians.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkQtnezxUF8[/video]

bigjim – Member
…Interestingly I see the SNP suspended two members who disrupted that creepy plonker Murphy’s thing yesterday, somewhat contradicting the chat yesterday that they weren’t SNP members or anything to do with the SNP! The party must be banging their heads in frustration at people like that.

I’ve been running in to quite a few “angry” SNP supporters recently.

Interestingly they are all ex-Labour voters, and they’re still furious with that party, especially when they now realise the crap it’s dishing out in Scotland. Basically their message is “SNP bad”.

Those who have been supporting home rule or independence long-term are a lot calmer, we’ve seen all this shit before, but it’s new to the the converts, and winds them up.

BTW apparently they are opening postal votes already in Gordon Brown’s electorate. Is this legal?

Obviously there’s a difference between having SNP members turn up at an event, and having it be an SNP event or anything to do with the party. I could join the Tories tomorrow and burn down a church, if you like…

Postal votes are always opened before the big count. Party reps are in attendance but they should not be able to see the results or to report on them to others. Ruth Davidson got some of her folk into trouble on the referendum due to this. If postal voting numbers are already being discussed then electoral fraud has taken place and the police should be involved.

@squirel – HS2 is about trying to give Birmingham and the Northern cities a boost. It’s not going to be a commmuter on the line and ticket pricing will be set to discourage it as it is on many high speed lines. You comment on property prices is just a bit daft, London is a huge draw for foreign investment/bolt-hole and employment prospects are much better than the rest of the country hence the pressure on housing. I think it’s a spectacular waste of money and they should just upgrade the airports in Birmingham and Manchester. @Binners has spoken in past posts about economic reality, its just much cheaper to build ships in Asia our industry was sustained primarily on Defense contracts in recent times and that work has gone now. You can say management had a hand in poor Labour relations and it wasn’t just the unions but the fact is large parts of our manufacturing industry where poor in comparison to international competitors so our businesses closed down.

On the SNP thing, we have a classic attempt by them to claim “its nothing to do with us” when their rhetoric builds resentment and encourages conflict and has done so for the past 2+ years over the referendum. It has shades of Kristallnacht for me. JY I imagine had one of those incidents been filmed it would have made the news.

It has shades of Kristallnacht for me.

Godwin!

What do I win?

HS2 is about trying to give Birmingham and the Northern cities a boost

Its not what northerners want its what Londoners think we need

A boost to us is not making it 15 minutes quicker to get to London and only southerners think this . From liverpool its faster to London than to Hull or Newcastle for example

It has shades of Kristallnacht* for me

FFS comparing the SNP to Nazis [ when they were attacked] is low and irrational even for you 🙄

* I assume we mean a series of coordinated and sytematic attacks carried out by paramilitary forces against jews resulting in deaths , 30,000 imprisoned for being a jew …Jesus mate that is not even hyperbole. Why not go on about how anti English the SNP are 😯

Seriously, though, I know you’re notin Scotland, but if you think it’s the SNP side that’s building resentment and encouraging conflict you’re sadly mistaken. Murphy and Dugdale really only have one answer to any question they’re asked – “SNP BAD”. Scottish Labour have spent almost all their time telling us why we shouldn’t vote SNP, very little time telling us why we should vote Labour.

It’s sad. Pathetic, even. Problem is that Labour have had Scotland as their own little fiefdom for a century, they have a real visceral hatred for anyone trying to take it away.

Godwin!

What do I win?
Dunno, but would an SNP inspired Kristallnacht not do something like hunt down and intern Tories somewhere like St Peter’s seminary to restore it by hand for use as Social housing?

Not as familiar with the Scottish Labour party but in England there is hate towards any party that makes it easier for the Tories to be in power.

Getting a bit bored of it now. Think I might boycott today. Too early for predictions?

I’m looking forward to seeing if the bacon sandwich muncher turns down the chance to be PM.

Because that will be the day we see pigs flying and I’ve always wanted to see that.. 🙂

Jamba thinks the SNP builds resentment and this makes them to blame for the actions of others; doesn’t think having the Prime Minister tell us our democratically elected representatives aren’t allowed in our government does. Oh and sees Jim Murphy being attacked for austerity policies and the war on Iraq, thinks it must be all about the SNP. Here’s a thought- perhaps Labour have built resentment by their own actions?

jambalaya – Member

JY I imagine had one of those incidents been filmed it would have made the news.

You don’t really have to imagine, the precedents aren’t good- there was footage of Stewart Dredge getting attacked in the street for campaigning for Yes but what was on the news that night? Reruns of Jim Murphy getting hit by an egg 2 weeks before.

That’s a 91 point difference between them. Not all that many people fussed about the helicopter, it seems

Which is a shame – if a small republic was bought by a homophobic bus oligarch, it would be a terrible shame. Maybe Scotland is better in the UK when it’s only billionaires like Murdoch that can decide who leads the country.

It has shades of Kristallnacht for me.

Jesus wept. Step away from the computer. The Scottish independence campaign was the most tedious law-abiding democratic secession project there has ever been.