I thought i did, but often wondered if i just believed the hype, Dissapointment in new 165 quid jacket got me thinking....
I found these articles interesting...
Bike Forum
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Do you believe in Gortex and it claims.......????
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Posted 2 years ago #
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No, I use eVent instead.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well its kind of the whole waterproof breathable thing in general....
Posted 2 years ago # -
Gortex is very waterproof but not as breathable as event, for fast sports like running or biking you must wear proper wicking fabrics below. My wife runs in her gortex jacket when it rains and although the inside of the jacket gets wet she herself is dry and I find the same with my Fusion gortex jacket. I dont think that there will ever be a totally waterproof jacket that breathes totally as well so there will always be comprimises. If you wear a good wicking fabric below the jacket then it removes the moisture from the skin and should stop the cold shivers when you stop riding. I also carry a dry base layer on big days out and it feels great when you are freezing at the top of the last climb and you slip the dry layer on.
Hope this helps.Posted 2 years ago # -
Well, the way I see it is, waterproof is waterproof. A bin bag is waterproof. Breathable is what really matters to me, so I choose to use eVent as I have found it to be much more breathable than anything else.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Too bloody expensive anyway.
I did have some GoreTex walking shoes and the waterproofing lasted less than a year. My feet were always damn hot in them too. Got some eVent ones now and they are definitely cooler, time will tell if they last better.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Should try Paramo
Posted 2 years ago # -
The other thing to note is that Gortex has now lost the patent or the patent has now ran out so other companies can now make the fabric and improve on it, ie Endura, their new fabric is basically a copy of Gortex but its much more breathable, their new jackets look good.
Posted 2 years ago # -
a copy of Gortex but its much more breathable
So Endura have managed what gore tex failed despite millions worth of R&D?Posted 2 years ago # -
Goretex for walking/work jackets where it's steady exertion in truly filthy weather.
eVent for biking where it's high exertion in slightly less disgusting conditions.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Does it work?
Have you ever tried wearing a pre gore-tex "dry" suit?
I've got a stupifyingly expensive musto sailing jacket, worth every penny of the £10 it cost in a charity shop. But compared to £100 sailing jackets I've had its the muts nuts, I've worn it with a base layer in weather down to -5 and upto 35, feels just the same inside. worst offender though is my race face atlas jacket, waterproof, and probably slightly breathable, but is very definately a case of boil in the bag!
IMO it works best in low intensity aplications where your not sweating buckets, so sailing kit, bivi bags, etc.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've got a 10 year old Lowe Alpine 'ceramic' membrane breathable jacket. The 'breathable' membrane is barely in existence anymore, having flaked away into little pieces, yet the jacket is still waterproof and breathable.
The secret?
Finishing the jacket with a good waterproofing treatment. Rainwater beads on the surface of the nylon outer fabric, I remain dry - and body moisture permeates through the outer fabric quite happily.
It's more 'breathable' now than it ever was!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Backhander, I spoke to the guy from Endura at the bike show in Earls court, he said the if you make the holes in the fabric bigger then it is less waterproof but more breathable and vice versa and Gore cant be that great as they sold us all up the river with their paclite fabric that was as breathable as a bin liner.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've always considered that 'breathable' garments work best when the weather / atmosphere is dry therefore allowing the moisture wicked away from your body to dissipate. A waterproof and breathable garment worn in the wettest weather will always be compromised; it may not let the rain in but, equally, your sweat cannot escape into the atmosphere.
Posted 2 years ago # -
psling, exactly, kind of defeats the whole point give that thats when it will be worn
Posted 2 years ago # -
I went out on the STW southern ride to Swinley at the start of the month. It rained all moning. I was wearing Goretex paclite and lifa base layer on my upper body and Event waterproof trousers on my legs with no base layer. I was comfortable on my top half but by the end of the morning my legs were very sweaty. I have found that you certainly need a wicking layer next to a breathable fabric for maximum benefit.
Has anyone tried Ventile and can you still get clothing made of it?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I remember being issued the old "crisp packet" jacket and trous.
Every one on the ex with goretex was as comfy as could be expected, where as all the blokes with the old kit were p1ss wrapped, shivering etc.
I for one will never moan about Gtex, Event or paclite.Posted 2 years ago # -
I use a gore fusion jacket in winter and don't have an issue with breathability at all, it's also the most waterproof jacket I've ever used. But as above if you wear something daft like a cotton t-shirt under it then it's gonna get wet.
their new fabric is basically a copy of Gortex but its much more breathable, their new jackets look good
Which endura jacket are you using glynP?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think Gotre Tex's own description tells you it cant work,
It will let out vapour as the holes are small enough to allow this, but once your sweat has condensed to liquid its then water proof from the inside as they say water droplets are to big to pass through the membrane...Posted 2 years ago # -
their paclite fabric that was as breathable as a bin liner
amen brother
Posted 2 years ago # -
Gore cant be that great as they sold us all up the river with their paclite fabric that was as breathable as a bin liner
I've always found Paclite to be by far the most breathable of the range, it's all the same membrane anyway, what differentiates them is the way the membrane is applied and how many layers there are
Posted 2 years ago # -
all these fabric require a large temp differential to work - often even if you are hot and sweaty and it is cold outside this is not enough..
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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I think performance varies hugely.
My walking jacket (Sprayway Goretex) is rubbish. The waterproof finish lasts about 5 minutes, then the rain soaks in and the jacket can't breathe.
My contrast, my Gore paclite cycling jacket is great. It needs re-treating once every six months and that's it. It only gets sweaty when pedalling hard, but I doubt that any other jackets would cope with a sweaty MTBer labouring up a steep hill. But you do need to wear a wicking base layer underneath or it won't breathe at all.
I like the look of these Paramo jackets - any owners on here?
Posted 2 years ago # -
My Gore-Tex is fine. Can get a little warm but for me it's fine as I find I get too warm with more than just a short-sleeved jersey (unless it's actually raining), for the very little money paid for what I got I consider it a decent jacket. The only time I get wet is through my own sweat, it's near-enough-as-makes-no-difference 100% waterproof
(having said that it's army surplus, not sure if that makes any difference to composition or design)
...the only downside being it's DPM, which despite looking cool means I'm a little harder to find when things go wrong
Posted 2 years ago # -
backhander - You should have worn your Chinese fighting suit underneath it, you'd have been nice and toasty, well at least until that got wet too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It is what it is, and it's important to remember that the other things you're wearing are just as important. So if you're wearing a cotton t-shirt under your £200 jacket you're effectively wasting your money. Personally I find eVent is better, but in general I avoid wearing waterproofs for as long as possible because they're just not breathable enough.
That doesn't make them useless, and they're still a lot better than they've ever been, but they're not miracle fabrics. You just need realistic expectations and a bit of common sense.
At the end of the OP's first link it says:
No garment is breathable and waterproof
which isn't true. EVent steams and is waterproof so how is it not breathable? Of course breathable doesn't mean "breathes as if it wasn't there" but that's where the unrealistic expectations come in.Posted 2 years ago # -
Lightweight GoreTex walking shoes have specific problems with the booty wearing and leaking. Once they leak, they get wet and stay wet. Leather or Leather+ gore is better in proper wet/rough situations.
I find packlite OK but still get wet if exerting hard in rain. Wicking layers underneath make a big difference to comfort. It's way better than a bin liner.
I've never had much luck with spray-on or wash-in coatings - they don't seem to stick, probably because of surface contamination.
Would like to try Event - next jacket will probably be Event.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've found my Event jacket to be markedly more breathable that any previous waterproof I've owned.
Posted 2 years ago # -
For biking I rate Event above goretex - just seems to work better for me. That may or may not be because Event allows water through as a vapour but goretex needs it to condense back to a liquid to pass through the membrane.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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goretex is never going to breathe enough to cope with the sweat / heat a rider can produce, i only use it if it's utterly pissing it down, any other time goretex seems totally pointless to me.
for all other occasions, windproofs with DWR coating or a thin pertex/pile based jacket work far better. i'd ratehr have a non-WP top that dries fast and breathes well.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ha S&J, you've actually taken your chinese fighting suit into the field?
F*** THAT!Posted 2 years ago # -
One interesting thing here, seems that all of us who have used eVent rate it more highly than other fabrics we've used. In the past I've tried various Gore formats, Lowe's Triple Point Ceramic etc and I would agree, eVent knocks them all in to a cocked hat.
Part of the problem here is ignorance. Was talking to the folks in my LBS and LOS (Outdoor!) at the weekend and they both said that people come in saying, "I need a Gore-tex" when what they mean is, "I need a breathable waterproof". Perception is a strong thing, and if more companies use eVent it can only help!
That said, I think I'm going to try one of hte new Endura ones as well. They look a very well thoguth out jacket, so worth trying the fabric out to see.
Posted 2 years ago # -
CFH, aye its like when ya need a new hoover you go and and come back with say a Dyson and say you have a new hoover....
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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