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  • Cattle coming to Swinley (and more)
  • thepurist
    Full Member

    I met some folks from the Surrey Wildlife Trust & Heathland Conservation Society at Swinley yesterday. Their main aim was to educate people about the introduction of cattle that’s going to happen over the summer, but there was also some useful info about how to deal with stuff like fires, illegal motorbikes etc.

    First the cattle. These will be on the Barossa Common/Poors Allotment area which is the heathland to the S of the main mountain biking areas. This was planned a year or two ago and some fences were built, but there were some issues with the fences & rights of way so the whole thing had to be suspended pending a redesign. If you ride that area you’ll have noticed that a load of the old fencing has been taken down recently, and new wire fencing (about 1m high) will be going in over the next few months. They have learned the lesson from last time and will be installing gates at all ‘desire lines’ through the boundary. The cattle will be introduced as soon as the fencing is complete & approved, hopefully by early summer. They were looking for volunteer ‘spotters’ who can report back on any issues with the cattle or the fencing, so I signed up for that. If you’re interested then get in touch with the Surrey Wildlife Trust

    Secondly, the Heathland Conservation Society were there too. They aren’t a bunch of nimby’s who don’t want the heathland to be used, but they do want to educate people about its value and preservation. Also, perhaps more importantly for us, they have cross-agency contacts so can liaise with police, fire and military services (as well as others) to deal with any reported issues. They cover the whole area of Swinley, from Crowthorne to Bagshot, Camberley to Bracknell, so are a good first point of contact if you see anything that needs dealing with – they’re particularly keen to address any illegal motorcycling that goes on, preferably by education rather than enforcement. They can also work with the civilian and military fire services and apparently have better channels to them than the standard 999 call – I had real hassle trying to describe the site of a fire to an operator as they wanted a road name for a fire in the middle of the heathland.

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Good. With a bit of luck they’ll plough the rest if it up and plant some crops whilst there’re at it.

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    the purist – thank you for posting this.

    I am, however, jaded and cynical so shall now step away from this thread.

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    OK, I know I said I would stay away but it’s a woman’s perogative …

    My beef (geddit?) with this is that Wildlife Trusts want to turn the clock back thousands of years and recreate Olde England.

    The world has moved on and this has therefore become a high density area with many commuters. First and foremost I passionately believe that local people need open space for mental well-being.

    The Poors allotment area was defined as a SSSI a few years ago. Up until then, it had been happily used by the MX’ers which therefore kept them out of Swinley Forest. We are talking about grotty scrubland here, not pretty trails. Bikes were impounded and, as a sop, they gave them a little area besides the Devil’s Highway to use.

    What the Wildlife Trust fail to mention is that they receive money for grazing animals, yes, money from the tax payer. Chances are the cattle are owned by a hobby farmer who soon realises he can be on to a good thing and doesn’t need to spend money on feed.

    Wildmoor Heath is to the SW of Swinley Forest and this was taken over by the Wildlife Trust. They erected fencing (wonder who paid for that), tried to have footpaths diverted, decimated parts of it by tree felling, put up signs saying dogs should be on a lead. Generally trying to change it back to the heathland as it was a considerable time ago.

    This is an area surrounded by large housing estates and much used as a recreational area, particularly dog walkers. Bear in mind that many of these dog walkers are mature and are unable to negotiate squeeze-stiles and traditional stiles.

    Highland cattle and ponies were introduced so dogs had to be put on leads when entering the paddocks. The cattle had youngsters and were naturally protective cue walkers being chased and terrified. Local kids terrorising the animals, leaving gates open, breaking fences, fires regularly being started.

    The whole character of this area has been changed without any regard for local people and their needs. The countryside can not be allowed to become a museum.

    Actually, Pete’s suggestion is not as daft as it sounds. This area could be used for something productive and engaging local people.

    Sorry, thepurist, but I for one will not get involved.

    *steps down from soapbox*

    thepurist
    Full Member

    Fair enough CG. I had typed out a big response, but really cba getting het up about it. If you’re happy to lose scarce environmental habitats because it’s less bother to allow them to fall to the use of the lowest common denominator then that’s your look out (geddit? :D).

    And Pete’s idea is already happening to the rest of the area – there’s a crop there called ‘trees’.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    from CG’s post the area sounds like a dog toilet

    allthepies
    Free Member

    There’s lots of this return-to-heathland stuff going on in the area. Seems to involve chopping lots of trees down and leaving areas which were once pretty wooded landscapes (with great singletrack in!) as desolate wind-blown eyesores. See the RSPB area in Bourne Woods nr Farnham as an example.

    tonyd
    Full Member

    +1 allthepies.

    The MOD land between Upper Hale and the Bourley Road (is that Bourne Woods?), near Caesars Camp, was decimated a few years ago. It’s nice that folk want to recreate the heathland that was once there, but as CG says time moves on. Why chop down acres of perfectly good trees? I used to run and ride there a lot but didn’t get over for about a year, in which time they cleared it all. My ghast was flabbered when I saw it.

    Gee-Jay
    Free Member

    & to add my 2p the land around Bourley Road is now covered in gorse which, I understand, is not a natural UK plant/shrub/green spikey thing but came from NZ so it has not gone back to Olde World heathland anyway. Added to which the ranger there says it burns really well so the local herberts deliberately start fires to see it go up… hurrumph

    brooess
    Free Member

    IIRC from the signs on SDW, heathland is manmade landscape – for grazing and farming and not ‘back to nature’ Forests and trees are what happened in UK when nature left to its own devices.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    wtf are highland cattle doing in Bracknell – shouldn’t they be living on the highland?

    Horsell common has had a load of trees cut down for the same heathland reasons.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    They probably eat a specific grass/plant.

    Back home they rotated/mixed the heards of different sheep and cows as they all ate different things. So rather than having 2 fields and 1 heard of sheep, you could have 2 heards as long as they were sufficiently different.

    Presumably theres something there they want rid of that highland cattle will eat?

    thepurist
    Full Member

    They’re actually using Belted Galloway’s rather than Highland – no horns.

    Zulu-Eleven
    Free Member

    I’m glad someone’s mentioned Bourne Wood here -**** decimated. now all fenced and grazed by horses!

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of nightjar and ground nesting birds – but whats needed is habitat diversity, that can be achieved by clever planting and felling regimes, coupe rotation, and mixed areas of both continuous cover forestry , and permanent heath – not the simplistic replacement of wide areas of one monoculture with another!

    As usual, over specific, simplistic implementation of grant money regimes is to blame for most of the damage, it pisses me off when land that’s been well cared for for years is trashed for the latest grant bandwagon.

    Regards poors allotment etc – I seem to recall the key “problem” was that they’d chosen to fence and enclose the common without seeking the proper legal permission (common land can only be fenced with specific permission from the SOS) so if that was the case, they’ve got nobody to blame foe their fences being cut than themselves – I’d be interested to hear about the motorbike side of things, since there must have been a good twenty years of regular casual motorbike use, giving enough to claim common rights for that as well, but I’m not sure how much of that was formally permitted (if it was officially permitted, then there can be no claim for rights under the nec vi, nec clam, nec precario principles!)

    thatscold
    Free Member

    I was over at Swinley yesterday morning, and there has been a fire in the area adjacent to Surrey Hill (the area with the Pillbox). It looks like there’s not much grazing left there….

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    If you’re happy to lose scarce environmental habitats because it’s less bother to allow them to fall to the use of the lowest common denominator then that’s your look out (geddit? :D).

    thepurist – what do you mean by lowest common denominator?

    Zulu puts it quite eloquently:

    As usual, over specific, simplistic implementation of grant money regimes is to blame for most of the damage, it pisses me off when land that’s been well cared for for years is trashed for the latest grant bandwagon.

    Belted Galloways are gorgeous, particularly the cuddly calf, and they used to graze at another Wildlife Trust Reserve I know. This is definitely not the right place for them to be, let alone taking into account the less salubrious housing estate that’s closest.

    Edit: the points in my original post concerning grazing animals was referring to what happened to an area nearby, not specifically where thepurist is referring to. I wouldn’t be surprised if the problems encountered at Wildmoor Heath were to happen at Barossa.

    gee
    Free Member

    Is that the bit that was on fire earlier this week? Mmmm…. Ready made BBQ beef.

    GB

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    gee – I reckon most parts (we’re talking around 4,500 acres combined for Swinley and Barossa) have seen some fire over the last couple of weeks. Certainly us locals are quite used to the smell, and it’s not even Summer!

    Roast venison is most acceptable – haunch for me please. 🙂

    tonyd
    Full Member

    In terms of grant grabbing – a lot (all?) of the land round Bourley Road is MOD. Surely the MOD don’t qualify for government grants?

    br
    Free Member

    There’s lots of this return-to-heathland stuff going on in the area

    On various parts of the Chilterns too.

    imo its a bit like the planners who pick a date and expect all the houses in the street to look the same ‘age’…

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    On various parts of the Chilterns too.

    Ah but don’t you have the presumably powerful Chiltern Society to ensure the locals aren’t inconvenienced upset?

    Oh, wait a minute, they’re probably in agreement with the ‘no parking for cyclists’ sign in the Maidensgrove Visitor Centre run by the Wildlife Trust. 🙄

    gee
    Free Member

    Yeah that common by the radio mast is always full of pikies on motocross bikes… Wonder where the fires come from..?? Crowthorne was on fire tonight too, by the corkscrew.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    gorse … I understand, is not a natural UK plant/shrub/green spikey thing but came from NZ

    Minor point, but: IIRC it’s quite the opposite, native to the UK but causing problems in NZ and elsewhere as an invasive species.

    Carry on…

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    gee – it was near there that they were able to ride their MX’ers without bothering anyone. It’s a shame that they have lost that parcel of land.

    gee
    Free Member

    Yep – my neighbour is an MX-er and really struggles to find anywhere to ride. Rubbish really. He’s not the sort you see up there by the mast though, who are more the ‘riding stolen scooter chav’ type.

    GB

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    After all, many mtb’ers started off by riding MX’ers. It’s all very well banning them but there does need to be an alternative.

    I would rather see youngsters riding MX’ers there than cattle!

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