Buying Advice - Soul or Altitude

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Buying Advice - Soul or Altitude

31 posts & 20 voices | Started 1 year ago by bertberr | Latest reply from malibu_babe_28

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soul

bertberr - Member

Just wondered whether there was anybody on here that has any experiences of riding both of these, and if so what your thoughts are?

I want to build up a steel HT over the winter to replace my lightweight ally hardtail, partly because I'm not getting any younger, and partly because I still love steel frames (I still have my Cinder Cone that I bought new in 1991).

Narrowed it down to Soul, Altitude 853, Decade Virsa, P7, PA & 456. But looking at geometry, the Soul & Altitude are the current favourites.

Also, bit cheeky I know, but can't think of anyway round it, if there's anybody in Devon with either 16" or 17.5" versions of any of these bikes, I'd be really grateful if I could take a look and try them for size (stationary, don't worry!).

Posted 1 year ago #
letmetalktomark - Member

Soul. End of ...

Posted 1 year ago #
davidtaylforth - Member

Soul for sure if you dont mind paying for it.

Posted 1 year ago #
woody2000 - Member

I'm willing to bet you couldn't tell the difference if you blind tested them......

Posted 1 year ago #
highclimber - Member

P7, then of course I would say that because I have one, just like those that will say get the Soul because they have one or have ridden one. the only way to find out for sure is to find someone(where) that has one to demo. I'd be more than willing to let you have a pedal on my P7 if you are in the manchester vacinity

Posted 1 year ago #
BigJohn - Member

Are you saying that ally hardtails are only any good for people who are getting younger then?

I can't say I've noticed any difference in harshness between my Cannondale Caad4 and my Cotic Soul. Layback seatposts and fat tyres are the way to go.

Posted 1 year ago #
brakes - Member

I doubt many would be able to tell the difference between the two, especially as the set-ups on each are likely to be different
if it comes down to aesthetics and brand opinion, the Soul wins, in my opinion
if you wanted to test the frame feedback through your posterior, I would reccomend a brand new San Marco saddle as in the picture below, ouch

Posted 1 year ago #
karnali - Member

i have a red 853 atlitude 30 frame up for sale email me if int, little use few marks lovely ride 17.5 at 5'9 was ideal for me, cutting down the fleet email in profile. buy it try it for a few months, don't like it sell and get a soul.

Posted 1 year ago #
woody2000 - Member

Bakes - I've ridden both (prev. gen mind) with pretty similar setups, couldn't find anything between them. Currently ride a Altitude 30, just because it was cheaper

Posted 1 year ago #
bertberr - Member

There's ally and ally, in the same way that some steel frames will be more compliant than others...

My current ally HT is VERY unforgiving, you feel every bump, of course it climbs like a billy goat on heat, but whereas instant acceleration (on the flat and uphill) was important to me when I lived by the South Downs - lots of longer shallower gradiants, since I moved to Devon the ability to hold a line through rocky terrain, and overall trail comfort are now more important to me.

Highclimber, thanks for offer, if you were you just a little closer...

Woody, thats the kind of advice I'm looking for - somebody who's ridden both. I know they've both had good reviews in their own right, and probably wouldn't go wrong with either, but if you have only one or the other, you're bound to enthuse about your product over something similar, that's human nature...

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

ridden both, both bloody lovely bikes, both nice and 'steely' - very little in it.

the soul might be a bit lighter, although that is a total guess.

Posted 1 year ago #
a11y - Member

Owned both, actually still own my Altitude (721 though, not 853) and prefer the Altitude. I think that's more down to sizing though as I found my 19" Soul too stretched whereas my 17.5" Altitude is spot on. I'd be lying if I said I noticed much difference between them, both feel best around 115-120mm forks IMO.

Haven't thought about it before, but I paid less for my entire Altitude as a bike (bought 2nd hand) than I paid for my Soul frame-only years ago!

Posted 1 year ago #
mtbmaff - Member

As per what karnali said, but I have a 17.5" Cotic Soul, which will be up for sale after the weekend.

My email is in profile if you're interested?

Matt.

Posted 1 year ago #
bertberr - Member

ally, interesting that you went for a 19" Soul, albeit you found it a little stretched, but that the 17.5 Altitude is OK...can I ask what height you are, and inside leg... (suits you sir, wink wink)??? Cheers

Posted 1 year ago #
a11y - Member

bertberr, sorry only just noticed your reply.

I'm 185cm (approx 6'1 i think that is) with a 33" inside leg.

I owned my Soul several years ago now and chose the size based on what I was riding at the time. I think it was my riding changing that led me to feel the frame was too big for me: replaced it with a Dialled Bikes Love/Hate 17.5" which felt much better, SS'd that then discovered 29er SS's and bought the Altitude as a geared replacement. My riding's got less-XC and more just fun/trail orientated and I just feel happier on a smaller frame.

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

I've never ridden an 853 Altitude but I bet they're nice. I went with the Soul just because when i demo'd it, it instantly clicked for me, and though there's various bikes that are pretty close I couldn't be sure that they'd still have that "rightness". Starting to get itchy feet a little bit but it's been superb through and through, couldn't ask for more from a frame. Might be I'd say the same about an Altitude

Oh, one objective difference is that the finish on the 853 Altitude seems to be a lot less good than the Soul, Cotics have really superb and tough finish which might or might not be a valuable extra for you. Genesis's paint isn't brilliant, it's not On One bad but it's not good.

Posted 1 year ago #
OCB - Member

I faced this very question back along, and having looked and thought long and hard about both, I eventually made my choice based on 4 things - and that's the 4 rack mountings tapped in on the back of the Genesis ... (which might seem an kinda odd thing to base a bike on, but I like the versatility, and there was pretty much nothing else to split them for me (colour being kinda irrelevant)).

It's a 17.5 (I'm 6'), and it can be in S Devon if you want a look.
I [probably] should mention that I've got some H-Bars on order for it for next week tho'...

Not the best picture ever I grant you...

I can't give you an objective opinion, as I've not ridden the Soul (and I've not really had much chance to push this one much yet ("real-world" eh!)). I do know mine needs lighter tyres that those tractor tyres fitted, but I guess it'll be winter in a scant few months, so they might stay on. Clearly that's not a frame issue tho' ...

I find I'm leaning towards a fully rigid and ss (re)build for it tho' ... but that's only because I'm still not sure that I actually believe in suspension and/or gears.

Posted 1 year ago #
rtb25 - Member

I've ridden both bikes - although only demo'd the Altitude for a few hours. Doubtless the setups were different, and my comparison isn't blind or perfect, but I found the 2 bikes rode very differently.

I ended up with a Soul - for me it rides really well, the riding position is just correct for how I ride, and the bike feels 'planted' on most terrain.

The Altitude felt like a much more aggressive position, and handled in a much more 'twitchy' way. Initially I thought the geometry was just plain wrong, but after an hour or so on the bike I worked out the point - like one of those unstable fighter jets, it's also immensely manoeuvrable. The front end carves into turns amazingly fast, then the back end comes into line. For me this sort of performance was unnerving, and I decided against the Altitude, but in the hands of someone with the skill and riding style to exploit it, I can see why it's a great bike.

Not very scientific I'm afraid, but hope it makes sense!

Posted 1 year ago #
bertberr - Member

Good to read some additional thoughts on this - thanks for those. I'm leaning towards the Soul at the moment, mainly based on the sheer number of positive reviews / owners comments, I think I've only read one negative about the way it rides.

OCB, I'd like to take you up on that - can't see an email in your profile - can you ping me so we can arrange? Thanks

Posted 1 year ago #
indiajazz - Member

ive got a bloke building me a soul at this very moment....i seemed to be in a similar dilemer to yourself and had it down to the same two bikes....i went for the soul!
so many positive reviews and good things said,and even after ordering it and then getting the"shit,have i done the right thing"kinda thing,another look for posts on this forum and i was put at ease again,ive always had p7`s and wanted to keep to steel and fancied a change.....i cant wait to get it now to be honest!good luck which ever way you go

Posted 1 year ago #
Country_Gent - Member

I've got a 19" Soul and one of my mates has an Altitude 853. My bike is considerably better looking, faster, better handling, easier to climb, faster, more attractive to members of the opposite sex, faster..........did I mention it was faster (sorry Luke if you're reading this!)

Soul - end of!

Posted 1 year ago #
Del - Member

wouldn't have said that the P7 and the 456 were comparing apples to apples with the soul etc. dunno about the genesis, but you'd want to compare the BFe to the P7 and the 456, IMO. the soul can be built heavy, the P7 and 456 built light(ish), so there is some overlap for sure, but they're working from opposite ends of the spectrum i would have thought.
again, IMO.

Posted 1 year ago #
oxnop - Member

I would agree with some of the comments above.

I have a P7 as my HT so i'm biased, My GF has a (newly acquired - thanks pete ) 853 PA as her HT which she loves so she would be biased.

I think that you have prob made your decision as you have narrowed it down to the 2 of the 'lightweights' in the list above. The P7 & 456 frames will be heavier (unless you buy a pre 2010 P7 frame) but will easily take more abuse.

If you want a XC HT that will be nice on flowy singletrack (and on smooth tarmac ) get a soul
If you want a HT that will be able to do the above but will handle the odd 4ft drop then get a P7

My P7

The GF's PA

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

One thing, I think the Genesis comes out a fair bit heavier despite being 853, though frame weights are hard to find.

Not sure about the comments on P7s and 456s, they're heavier and can be run with longer forks but in practice most end up with 140mm anyway so they end up doing the same job. The Soul's no feeble XC bike after all, it'll take all the beating most people will ask of a hardtail. And if you want more, then the BFe makes the P7 look like the lardy overpriced beast it is

Posted 1 year ago #
OCB - Member

@bertberr:

You should have just had an e-mail in the inbox listed in your profile.

Posted 1 year ago #
mboy - Member

I've got a 19" Soul and one of my mates has an Altitude 853. My bike is considerably better looking, faster, better handling, easier to climb, faster, more attractive to members of the opposite sex, faster..........did I mention it was faster (sorry Luke if you're reading this!)

Soul - end of!

That's nice objective point of view on which to base a decision!

One thing, I think the Genesis comes out a fair bit heavier despite being 853, though frame weights are hard to find.

Cotic claim 4.4lb for a 2010 Soul in 17.5" size (older ones were 4.3lb supposedly). My 2008 853 Genesis Altitude frame weighed 4.5lb bare when I got it (that is to say nothing fitted to it). Hardly a massive difference!

The Soul is a great frame, the Altitude is a great frame too. Geometry wise they're almost identical, the biggest single difference is the use of a wishbone seatstay arrangement on the Soul against the conventional seatstay on the Altitude.

Will echo the thoughts above about the quality of the paint not being quite so good on Genesis frames as on Cotic, mine has chipped and scuffed a bit more readily than Soul's I've seen.

You pays your money, and takes your choice. Is the Soul worth £110 more? Depends on whether you value the better finish and the slightly more exclusive brand image really, or if you really have a thing for wishbone seatstays.

Buy either, you'll have a great frame though!

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

"My 2008 853 Genesis Altitude frame weighed 4.5lb bare when I got it (that is to say nothing fitted to it). Hardly a massive difference!"

Ah, I was told 4.9lbs, thanks for the info.

Posted 1 year ago #
mboy - Member

Ah, I was told 4.9lbs, thanks for the info.

Mine is a 2008 frame, anything newer I don't know to be fair.

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

Mmm, I guess it might have changed for the CEN testing. Or maybe the guy I spoke to was just talking balls

Posted 1 year ago #
Country_Gent - Member

I'm not 100% sure about the geometry being that similar on the Genesis and the Soul.

In practice my Soul is noticeably lower, longer and slacker than the Genesis. Check where they measure the geom from. The Genesis frame is still pretty good geom though...

Posted 1 year ago #
malibu_babe_28 - Member

I've got a small Soul, but also looked at the Genesis - my other half had an IO, which was a lovely frame. The IO Alfine looks fab IMHO in banana yellow this year. Like people say - the sizing may be the deciding factor if there's not a lot to choose between them.
I also replaced my ally hardtail with steel as I found ally too punishing for longer rides. The Soul with a carbon seatpost is a very comfortable ride.

Posted 1 year ago #