haters gonna hate
Just confirms to me my fears that some MTBsrs are as selfish today as the ramblers were in the past.
This forum needs a block list or a stackexchange style reputation system so commentards get downvotes and lose the ability to spout rhetoric
In the interests of balance for anti green lane activities people could visit LARA GB
Not saying I agree with everything they say - they have an agenda to push as much as GLEAM.
Incidentally did you see the Peak District Green Lanes Alliance was formed late last year and they seem to be making huge strides.
Will look this up, we have green lanes all round us and I live in the Peak. NIMBYS - often people who have moved into the area - have already managed to close access to two popular trails for MX/Trials/4X4 but that did not stop several MX/Trials bikes passing me on both of them last week.
The biggest cause of erosion round here is walkers - just take a peek at the footpaths up and around Mam Tor, Kinder, Win Hill, etc - decades of being tramped by the vibram soled jack boot of the Ramblers Association membership!
And breath...
Roger http://pdgla.org.uk/about-the-alliance/
Nick, it's somewhat ironic that you think people who want to campaign for green lanes to be free only for walker, cycles and horses should be 'marked down' and loose the ability to post!
C
did you see the Peak District Green Lanes Alliance was formed late last year
No, PDGLA is headed by Dr Karen Hinkley, Prof Mark Everard & Roy Hattersley (the ex dep leader of the Labour Party). There are a number of MTBers are members too but obviously the more MTBers the better to keep a strong voice.
C
they are members of the alliance though no?
Nick, it's somewhat ironic that you think people who want to campaign for green lanes to be free only for walker, cycles and horses should be 'marked down' and loose the ability to post!
A stack exchange style system wouldn't allow an individual to prevent others posting. It would be the community based on the stuff said by the originator. So no, not ironic. more access for everyone on the trails IMO
access for EVERYONE! cos we dont Own this world (although some of us Think we do)
legal yes, right?
rogerthecat - Member
....
There is a very active section of the RA that is moving against 4x4 and Trail/MX bikes. Very subtle shift in message recently from this to "wheeled traffic" adn that's us. They cite too many "cheeky trails", well done guys we are now being put into the same cohort as 4x4 and Trail/MX bikes
yes but that isn't RA policy - but if those that ride MTB choose to align with motorised offroaders and maintain the disorganised (politically speaking) stance then those walkers with more extreme opinions will win through
RA policy (i believe) i addded the bold bit
The Ramblers view is that motorised use of rights of way, for sport, is rarely appropriate and that vulnerable users - pedestrians, cyclists, equestrians and horse and carriage drivers - should be able to enjoy the rights of way network away from as much motor traffic as possible
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/rights_of_way/knowledge_portal/vehicles_in_the_countryside.htm
Well said Antigee. Unfortunatly it seems people often believe hear-say, urban-myths and gossip rather than hard facts!
C
vulnerable users - pedestrians, cyclists, equestrians and horse and carriage drivers - should be able to enjoy the rights of way network away from as much motor traffic as possible
if those that ride MTB choose to align with motorised offroaders and maintain the disorganised (politically speaking) stance then those walkers with more extreme opinions will win through
-1 antigee
Not only have you fallen for the divide and conquer approach, you're helping promote it.
Figures for England
Total public righs of way (kilometeres) - 188,700 kilometres
BOATs - 3,700 km
"The Ramblers view is that motorised use of rights of way, for sport, is rarely appropriate and that vulnerable users - pedestrians, cyclists, equestrians and horse and carriage drivers - should be able to enjoy the rights of way network away from as much motor traffic as possible "
so having 98% of what you want isn't enough ?
maybe instead of your usual walk leaders you should try a monkey with a pin, lets face it the statistics are that the monkey would be able to pick a traffic free route.
With regard to the Stanage Causeway video, TBH, I used to go to Stanage climbing on a regular basis, and hardly ever saw or heard the motorised traffic that uses the Causeway. I tended to be more embarrassed about fellow climbers who thought that littering and endless high volume effing and jeffing was the order of the day.
If you'd have posted it as a heads-up camera from an MTB with the volume turned down, it would not have seemed particularly extraordinary. It was early morning, they weren't forcing pedestrians out of the way, or even going particularly fast.
On that track in those conditions, the only impact is the noise. For four minutes gate to gate. If I ruled the world (!) I would probably aim more to get quieter exhausts on these bikes.
So it's legal, and while it isn't ideal for other user groups, I don't see anything in this particular clip that's going to have me tearing my hair out. If you go to Stanage at the weekends seeking some kind of rural tranquility you'll probably be disappointed anyway. The air ambulance seems to turn up at some point most weekends...
Getting bikes and 4x4s off bridleways and particularly vulnerable BOATs (Like Foxup) would be my priority.
I don’t think it’s surprising that the only person you quote as liking offroaders is a guy whose spends all day on Sunday selling petrol to tourists.
/Sherlock Holmes
That's actually a very interesting and revealing statement. I presume you're talking about Wilkinsons. They have a long history of trials riding and in the 70s and 80s were one of the "go to" places for trials and other off-road motorcycle bits.
Now although the Dales covers a large area it has a small population and people from miles around know each other. Any Dales local knows the Wilkinsons.
So if you didn't know that I can take it that despite your claims to be a Yorkshireman you are what the Dales folk would call an "un-comed-un". Together with your other posts - you'd know that Foxup is popular with the Trail RIders because it leads to the Queens Arms in Litton, which is a handy lunch spot, and (a few years back at least) the landlords wife was a bit of a looker.
This lack of local knowledge (despite a worryingly anal knowledge of the rules and regulations of lettering size on motorbikes) would suggest to me that you are in fact someone who has moved to the Dales to enjoy what you perceived to be a rural idyll. You were then disappointed at discovering that it's actually enjoyed by lots of other people doing a hobby of which you disapprove and you have turned into a NIMBY.
/Sherlock Holmes
So how many of my points were a direct hit?
Dales folk would call an "un-comed-un".
I believe it's 'off-comed-un'
All IMO nick3216
You were then disappointed at discovering that it's actually enjoyed by lots of other people doing a hobby of which you disapprove and you have turned into a NIMBY.
This comment I think needs around of aplause.
Zero points Nick. Originally from Long Preston (south of Settle) and now just North of Settle. Kettlewell is miles away from here, probably an hour in a car! When we were kids we didn't often go that way, partly I suppose because then there were gates on the road all the way from Langcliffe to Arncliffe. But perhaps you're not old enough to remember that!! I do remember trial motorbike courses (probably late 1970s) just on the LHS before the bridge in Kettlewell. Dad took us there once to watch them. Whenever I ride down from Halton Gill towards Litton there is a van in the field (E side of road) going up and down the gully. It might be news to you but I am all for motorbikes on private land. They pay for the dmage they do and they don't damage any of the routes i enjoy public rights on!
C
+1 nick3216
all I wanted to say but get too narked to put it across without being too personally offensive. (minor flawed characteristic :wink:)
I stopped trail riding 5 years ago because it was getting harder to put a sensible route together in my time allowed by the wife!
edit - thought Foxup was off limits anyway??
Stop trying to force the will of the majority who think they have a devine right to tell the minority what to do - We're not hurting anyone.
Whilst still legal it will continue.
And rightfully so.
On a different note - Have you ever talked to Bill (Mick?) about his collection of bikes. Some cracking tales.
Whilst still legal it will continue.And rightfully so.
C
Chris - narrow minded NIMBY
You'll never learn till NPA stop you riding anything with two wheels.
The point is, it is legal - The powers that be - i.e. people that make the rules - are of the mind that it is ok. and that includes NPA.
Why should a bunch of people with only a selfish objective be able to undermine this.
As good a job as LARA does - they are never going to compete with the lobbying power of the RA etc and their celebrity members. I forget the name of the LARA chap (Malcolm??) one man.....
We never stood a chance really - depressing.
Zero points Nick.
Fair do's. A career as a detective still eludes me. Yes I can remember gates on the roads. The trip to Kettlewell was all day of a trek back in the day. As was visiting the World Trials Rounds at Bainbridge.
thought Foxup was off limits anyway??Unfortunately these days. It didn't used to be. A lot of my 20 year old marked up copy of OS 98 showing the higher access rights on top of the footpath/bridleway is probably irrelevant these days.
Foxup Road (the bridleway from Horton to Foxup) (I rode over it twice last weekend) went to a public enquiry in about 1995 (my guess). Despite a TRF member claiming it had horse and cart rights the enquiry proved no such rights existed and it was definitivly a BW. Any other criminal acts you want to confess up to!! Incidentally, in the strange way these things often show archaic rights, it showed inhabitants of Foxup (and Halton Gill) had a right but no-one else.
C
nick3216 - I only rode Foxup once, thought it was a great trail - drop down into Littondale then do Halton gill. fantastic days.
We were advised it was a bit 'grey' so left it alone.
2012 - 20 = 1992
duh!
want to make any other baseless allegations of criminality?
Pedantically speaking, just because it was done before the inquiry, doesn’t make it any less of an offense, the inquiry just confirms the existence of rights (or not) and amends the DM&S accordingly.
If it was 20 years ago when you last rode it, I suppose you can be forgiven. Even murderers get parole after that sort of length of time………..
C
ChrisE
Klumpy – I still can’t accept that you argue ‘Green lanes are roads that were never tarmacced’ then will not accept that when totaling up the kilometres of routes open to ride, you do not include the ‘ordinary road network’. You can’t have it both ways!
Right, and for mountain bikes we include all the cycle paths in city centers... I'm talking about pitting two wheeled machines against offroad conditions for recreation. It's so ridiculous, mountain bikers objecting to trail riders makes as much sense as a cross country MTB-er objecting to All-Mountain bikes.
Lawmanmx - Member
cr500dom ... ex Supermoto VD'er indeed
Howdo Tony ;).....long time no see !!
Klumpy - you either say BOATs are part of the ordinary road network or they are not - which is it!
You can't argue one way when it suits you then argue exactly the opposite in the next sentance when it doesn't!!
C
Thats sad Talltom.Not ridden up in the Dales since 2003.Peaks are more forgiving.I am lucky greenlane in Cotswolds and Wiltshire still plenty of trails left. For how long i wonder?Somerset is a right off.
ChrisE, you are giving the no campaign the image that it is run by swivel eyed nimbys. Are you retired and have too much time on your hands?
Does anyone here know ChrisE? Does he actually ride? I'd hate to think he was genuinely one of us with an attitude like that.
Rambler agent provocateur is my bet.
Oh I am found out – and posts like this
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/with-pics-the-best-adventure-best-ride-ever-gr5-transalp
are just part of an elaborate deception… or perhaps I just rode it to put (don’t know who would care) off the scent of me not having a bike!! Not really. Just a rider who rides mostly the same area (ie Craven Dales) and has seen it destroyed from the 1990s onwards by offroaders albeit that decline has slowed dramatically from the NERC Act onwards. Slowed but not reversed.
Retired, I wish!
C
Fourbanger: I often stop at Chris' Dales home when riding by. And yes, he does some fairly high mileage mountain biking.
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