So I’ve got a 2003 Hardrock, albeit the only original bits are the frame, stem and bars. I’ve bought some cable discs and need new wheels to go with them. I was going to get a wheelset for around £100.

Ideally I’d like to lose wieght from the bike so I’ve been toying with the idea of buying a Scandal frame and swapping all the bits over.

The alternative is to keep the Hardrock for a while longer and get some decent wheels. Would like to go tubeless so thinking Hope hoops Pro2 with Stans flow rims.

So what’s best for around £350 – cheap wheels + Scandal frame or just decent wheels?

what rims do you have now?
flows aren’t particularly light for an XC hardtail (can’t realy see what was spec’d on a 2003 hardrock being heavier) and they’re not particularly stiff for harder use. a reliable tubeless set-up *is there such a thing yet?) doesn’t really save weight either.
hubs won’t make any noticable difference unless you have some no name oem 500g+ DH rear hub.

Hardrock wont be particularly heavy, so I’d go for the new wheels. You’d probably be alright on Crest rather than Flow, unless you’re heavy.

Th rear is a Mach1 Evo2 on a no-name hub. The Front is a Mavic X221 on a Shimano HB-MC12 (Alivio) hub.

I don’t know much about wheels or running tubeless, but I like the idea of fewer punctures and lighter wheels! Any advice appreciated.

GW – Member

a reliable tubeless set-up *is there such a thing yet?) doesn’t really save weight either.

Not my experience… Not unless you’re using super-skinny XC tubes anyway, but they’re less reliable.

I’d go for the pro 2 with crest rims, tubeless with yellow tape. A nice setup. You’lll also have a spare set of wheels which is always handy.

I’d personally forget weight and just buy whatever will give you the biggest smile!

Hmmm, biggest smile would probably be from buying a whole new bike, but that’s not going to happen sadly….

Going for the wheels sounds like a good plan, then maybe the frame next year.

So Hope pro2 with Crest rims, a good setup for general xc riding and 12 hour races? Got to be better than what i have anyway, which got me round Kielder this year.

Si from progressive bikes had a pair of new crests for £255.

New wheels first but try and get a bargain and save £s for a second hand xc frame.

There are lots of people ditching qr wheels frames so maybe both second hand?

Depends a lot on how you’re finding your current frame surely? If it’s too big/small/slack/steep etc etc, replace it as you’ll benefit from that a lot more than from new wheels.

If the frame is fine for now, go for wheels I guess 🙂

What fork have you got? Might be better to upgrade that?

hardrocks are very good frames, you could spend a lot buying something much worse with fancy graphics.

I would recommend hope hoops with mavic 819 (tubeless) or 719 which can be stans’d.

The stans rims aren’t that great IME….known in the bike trade as ‘Stans so flats!’

The frame can be as amazing as can be, but if it’s wrongly sized, it’s still no good…

grizzpup – Member

known in the bike trade as ‘Stans so flats!’

Has anyone on here ever heard this before?

I’ve been running 819s and Flows on 2 bikes for some time now, the 819s aren’t better than the Flows at anything- narrower, heavier, less strong. I’m sure Mavic could do better, if they could be bothered… How many world cup wins did 819s take last year I wonder?

How many world cup wins did 819s take last year I wonder?

What a strange point to make given the wide range of Mavic rims. I’m sure 819’s took zero wins but how many did other forms of mavic rims or wheels take, answer is plenty.

How many world cup wins did Flows take then?

/NW – girls don’t count! 🙄

how many long walks did Flows/light non DH rims *chough* “shimano’s” *cough* make Gee do?

the top WC racers’ rims are disposable items! even the Syndicate! 😯
I run a flow on the back of my hardtail but would never run one on my DH bike (unlees I was retiring myself to only riding DH at innerleithen) but I do run 721s on all the tracks I ride.

oh.. and DT rims have won their share of DH WCs and I (rightly) don’t see you recommending them 😆

The Hardrock frame fits just fine, the only thing is it seems pretty heavy. The Scandal frame has pretty similar geometry (same head and seat angles, similar top tube length).

The fork is currently a heavy Tora coil, I’m changing that for a Rebal RL at the same time as I get the wheels.

So, y’all reckon the money is better spent on decent wheels rather than a lighter frame. No doubt I’ll be tempted to replace the frame for something lighter next year anyway, it’s a case of prioritising within the budget that I have.

The question is which wheels…..

How about these, only £100 and I could convert to tubeless….

Too many options, too many options, argh!

You’d be surprised at the weight differences in some of the more peripheral components such as bars and bottom bracket. I can’t imagine you saving much weight by swapping the frame. I’ve noticed the biggest difference to how heavy my bike ‘feels’ is in the tyres, and I’d question the logic of going tubeless to save weight. The UST tyres have thicker sidewalls adding just about as much weight as a tube, then you might also add some latex solution too.

I think you’ll notice a considerable difference by swapping to lighter forks and getting a wheel set and tyres that are not overly burly for your riding style.

a reliable tubeless set-up *is there such a thing yet?) doesn’t really save weight either.

Not my experience… Not unless you’re using super-skinny XC tubes anyway, but they’re less reliable

Haven’t had a flat on tubeless tyres in two years now. That includes a good few trips to the alps and various silly drops.

So Hope pro2 with Crest rims, a good setup for general xc riding and 12 hour races?

yes excellent

you should get them for £270-odd if you shop around and that gives you budget for some nice tyres too, maybe some mud ones for winter if you don’t have any

Wheels would be a good bet to be honest, I can recommend the stans rims as I’ve had no bad experiences with mine over the last 2 years, run tubeless with yellow tape & vavles.

You’d probably see the biggest gain from those, couple them with some nice tyres and you’ll be laughing.

OK thanks all, just waiting for my 0% credit card to drop through the letterbox and then it’s spend away!

I do like Hope stuff so think I’ll be going for their hoops with Crest rims. Woop woop!

If you can hang on for 2-3 weeks, there were a lot of discounts about in January Sales this year as shops tried to get rid of there old stock and get some money through there tills.
The run up to Christmas is probably the time when you get least value for your money.

neallyman – Member

What a strange point to make given the wide range of Mavic rims

Not at all- when you’re comparing two rims it’s useful to have markers of capability- and here, we’re comparing the 819 (which IME is a very capable and sturdy XC rim), with the Flow (which is lighter but, despite that, wins downhill world cups. Albeit on a girl’s bike 😉 )

GW – Member

the top WC racers’ rims are disposable items! even the Syndicate

Allegedly Steve Peat finished last season with the same rims he started with… And I know Jonnier’s don’t just go in the bin after one round as some say, having seen the ones she was using at the IXS, looked like they’d had a long hard life already.

And Gee has had no long walks due to Flows 😉

when you’re comparing two rims it’s useful to have markers of capability

yeah and I asked a straight question…so how many wins did Flow’s have?

neallyman – Member

so how many wins did Flow’s have?

Oh, sorry, missed that- 2010 World Cup overall women’s elites, under Sabrina Jonnier. Possibly 2009 as well, not sure when she switched to Stans. Couldn’t tell you how many individual race wins though.

Much easier question to answer for 819s 😉

Course, it’s not a very good comparison- people compare Flows and 819s just because the Flow is the closest Stans rim to the 819 in terms of weight. In terms of capability, 819s seem to be somewhere inbetween the Crest and Arch, which are lighter still.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. so you were referring to 2010. Random.

What about 2011, have you missed a year? As the saying goes ”you’re only as good as your last…….”

Jonnier’s the only big name rider I know for sure uses them and she didn’t have a great 2011. Though not because of the rims I think 😉 Still consistently top 5 though.