Capitalism is where it is at, if you think that business has any morals then you are in lala land.

Life (particularly during the recession) is based on survival of the fittest whether you like it or not. People have to sharpen their game, work smarter, harder and no be scared to innovate or change. The world is your oyster and your choices are yours.

Trade unions have wrecked industry and lunch breaks are for losers. People who only care about "rights" and "entitlements" are good value for being on the dole queues right now.

Which sounds remarkably like Gordon Gekko's speech in Wall Street:

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed — for lack of a better word — is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed — you mark my words — will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

And we all know what happened to him in the end, don't we children..?

And this bit

Life (particularly during the recession) is based on survival of the fittest whether you like it or not. People have to sharpen their game, work smarter, harder and no be scared to innovate or change. The world is your oyster and your choices are yours.

sounds like the sort of cod philosophy peddled by the likes of Macolm Gladwell.

Or Bernard Madoff.

Or Kenneth Lay.

Or Robert Maxwell.

Personally (await flaming but), I think Brown and Darling have made a pretty good fist of reacting to the crisis and things could have been much worse without the monetary policy decisions they they have made.

I agree. And so do an awful lot of economists. The only people flaming Brown et al for it are the Tories (quite pathetically) and the redtops.

As for the greed thing – it works in terms of overall wealth creation, but the only problem is that in order for you to win, there has to be a loser. The right-wingers amongst us would tell these losers that it's just too bad, you should've been a winner instead.

Would a 65 million-way tie be better than having some winners and some losers? That's the question.

Or Nick Leeson.

Damn, and I just brought some red braces.

Or Nick Leeson.

Excellent excuse: my bosses didn't understand what I was doing, but I continued to be reckless knowing the potential risks because it brought me short term financial gain, and then, oops, the whole tower of cards came tumbling down. But it wasn't my fualt. Etc.

the funny thing is oliver stone is bringing gordon gekho back……

Damn, and I just brought some red braces.

Is that you in the poster oldgit? You've aged well, what with the prison sentence and all that…. 😀

The key is to never shower 😐

On a serious note, my business only has a few months left in it. I'm dependant on construction large and small as well as industry and I'll need to see signs of improvement by April.

..or St Fred Goodwin

As pointed out earlier, what a load of pathetic Dail Mail style doom-mongering.

Yes there are challenges etc ahead but the worst that most people on here seem to have to worry about is buying one less titanium niche machine a year and sticking to just the one snowboarding holiday.

Boo-hoo.

what a load of pathetic Dail Mail style doom-mongering

As opposed to sticking your head in the sand? Toxic debt was in the news a year before things went belly up in the US.
And it was 6 months after before it's effects were fully felt in UK. I don't see this being any different to discussing the current situation in PIIGS Europe and it's effects in the UK.

A lot of people on here with a lot of monetary problems, grum. Weren't you here when the original recession started?

A lot of people on here with a lot of monetary problems, grum. Weren't you here when the original recession started?

OK, sorry but many people's monetary problems are self-inflicted.

I have had to reduce my hours at work due to long term illness and take a hefty pay cut, and I seemed to already earn less than most people on here (judging by the salaries thread), yet I manage ok. And if I lost my job I would have enough savings to manage for a little while.

I just find all the doom-mongering a little ridiculous when for most people it means that maybe their incredibly comfortable lifestyle will become marginally less comfortable, while millions of people around the world are starving/dying.

I'd have to agree. People these days haven't got a clue, me included!

OK, sorry but many people's monetary problems are self-inflicted.

So what if they are? You could say anyone buying a house and car based on a salary is gambling on them keeping their job? I know I sure as hell am – I mean if I lost my job I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage…

I just find all the doom-mongering a little ridiculous when for most people it means that maybe their incredibly comfortable lifestyle will become marginally less comfortable, while millions of people around the world are starving/dying.

Bit of a pointless thing to say, really. Yes, we know that there are people starving in the world, however if the economy tanks it'll still suck for us having to sell our houses or having them repossessed and all.

I also have savings but again, it'd still suck if I had to spend them. You seem to be reading strange stuff into what people are saying.

Bit of a pointless thing to say, really.

More pointless than the endless speculation and tabloid inspired fear mongering from people who have zero clue about what is going to happen in the future?

Having even a tiny speck of perspective is 'a bit pointless'? Ok then.

As stated earlier "get a better paid job" is a very stupid argument

Not really. If a person can't afford the house that they want, there's only two options;
1) buy a smaller house or flat/in a different area/ of a lower value
2) earn more money
Not exactly rocket science.

what a load of pathetic Dail Mail style doom-mongering

Not really, just people sharing views on what they perceive to be going on. Now if you want doom-mongering I can point you to forums where people seem genuinely to believe that the world economy is so bad it's time to stock up on tinned food and get the rifles out before civilisation collapses… 🙂

More pointless than the endless speculation and tabloid inspired fear mongering from people who have zero clue about what is going to happen in the future?

Where are you reading that then? That's not what I took from this thread.

Having even a tiny speck of perspective is 'a bit pointless'?

Bringing it up when it's bleedin obvious is pointless, yes 🙂 Of course, we could all be dead/dying/starving etc etc, but that doesn't bring anything to the discussion about the economic crisis… If you don't want to read about it, don't – but just don't come on and berate those of us that do want an intelligent discussion.

Backhander – way to oversimplify. You're as helpful as grum!

I get a massive dose of deja vu from stuff like this.

The media talked up the crisis in the first place, people got way too scared and the recession was worse than it needed to be. Now the same seems to be happening again. To make matters worse, the to&&ers that are talking up the recession and putting forward the idiotic economic policies are now going to influence the outcome of the next election.

Yes, the same people who in the boom said 'put all your money in property, it will never go down!" Must be a sheep thing.

As stated earlier "get a better paid job" is a very stupid argument

Not really. If a person can't afford the house that they want, there's only two options;
1) buy a smaller house or flat/in a different area/ of a lower value
2) earn more money

or 3)rent until property prices become reasonable

Not exactly rocket science 🙄

Backhander – way to oversimplify.

Except that what he's saying hits the nail on the head. All the rest is pointless speculation and bullshit.

I know 1876 was such a good year for industry. I miss the days when my employer could house me, dock my pay for breaking their machines, pay me in tokens for use only in their shops, injury me and then just throw me out on the streets to starve I mean who is not tired of having sick pay, paid holidays, Health and Safety I mean do we really need rights and entitlements … You might want to check the statistics on who is most likely to be made redundant is it someone in a union or someone not in a union? Both groups contain "decent" people BTW just one lot has more ability to protect the rights and entitlements that people fought employers to get …attitudes like yours are why we still need Unions today …Lunch breaks are for losers
You will always be a £6 an hour man!

I sit on several H & S committees and am all for H & S standards improving, people have choices to make.

If you want to stay on the shop floor side of things accept what is good, ie a job.

Arthur Scabhill did a good job didnt he?

People like you need to try running a business, that will sort out your perspective!

3)rent until property prices become reasonable

You're failing to mention that you could be waiting forever (or at least until you have saved enough to buy cash).

Possibly, yes.
Do you suggest I must buy a house, even if they're poor value?

I'm not suggesting anything, but I would argue that they're not poor value. People will pay what a property is worth. In the long (I don't know how long) run it is doubtful that you will lose money on a property if you buy intelligently. IMHO, you could be waiting a long time trying to second guess the market. Alternatively, it may be the wisest thing you ever do! I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
What mystifies me is those who think that having a job entitles them to home ownership.

Except that what he's saying hits the nail on the head. All the rest is pointless speculation and bullshit.

Lol!

I was talking about oversimplification of people's circumstances with regards their houses/mortgages etc. It takes a while to sell a house, you might not be able to find another that's suitable. It also costs a lot of money, and you may be in negative equity also which would mean selling would be a bad idea. If you lose your job, these things are all problems that you might face. And it would suck to have to face them, so that would be a bad thing. Hence people's concern.

As for the entire situation, oversimplifying it again is just a bit pointless. Might as well reduce everything to 'breathe in and out, eat, sleep'.

What do you think you are bringing to the conversation? This thread is now about political and economic ideology. That is to say, what the best way to increase net happiness for everyone. And yes, it's academic, because none of us is Brown, Darling, Cameron or Osborne. So what's your point, caller?

People will pay what a property is worth.

British people will pay what they can borrow, any notion of worth is secondary. Sell and rent if you think people will have more trouble borrowing and buy if you think more people will be able to borrow more.

The Office for National Statistics said that the UK's gross domestic product – the broadest measure of overall economic performance – increased by 0.3pc in the final three months of 2009, rather than the 0.1pc expansion it had previously estimated. The revision was higher than most economists had expected, and supports suspicions in the City that the economy is in fact starting to bounce back from its deepest recession in living memory.

the Telegraph today

And where is this growth supposed to come from? The level of both private and public debt means that servicing it will prevent a rapid recovery. The scope for further keynesian stimulus is small and a Tory victory would put an end to it if dogma is followed. They've decided to stop printing money (quantative easing) and banks are both reluctant to lend and taking huge margins; that makes money both difficult and expensive to borrow.

I'd like the optimists to give me something such a technological innovation to pin my hopes on.

Interesting point also from the Telegraph that GDP was actually revised down – link. The extra "growth" is apparently because the previous quarters' GDP has been revised down even more. Might partly explain why Sterling went down on the news…

I'd like the optimists to give me something such a technological innovation to pin my hopes on.

Falklands oil, anyone?

chillax edukator we're about to start milkin a massive undiscovered oilfield off argentina

we're in the money, we're in the money………

as long as on one or hope don't go bust who give's a ****