[Closed] are cotic souls that good?

No, it's a conspiracy

I love mine. I have other bikes but if I could only keep one it would definitely be my Soul.

Nope. I don't think so. They are super popular on here with people who like to be 'in' on shit.

Quite heavy and lumbering in my opinion. I'm sure someone will be on there way shortly to correct me.

Love what Cy has done in terms of the brand etc, just not really a bike for me.

Depends what you're after. 100-140mm fork trail capable and a reasonable light weight for steel. All generations get good write ups and the new one is stronger, takes a tapered fork and a 31.6 dropper. For me it was the ideal buy.

Heavy and lumbering? With SLX drivetrain a Reverb and Hopes/Arch EX mine weighs 11.7kg.... for a 120 mm hardtail that ain't bad going. It's heavier than an out and out XC bike, but the frame only weighs 300g more than my Cube Ltd that it replaced. Build it with an eye on the scales rather than your wallet, and you'd be right in there. I'll take a 300g weight penalty over harsh alu any day.

No, it's just getting silly meeting more and more riders who are not only riding the same bike as me, but being equally smug about it...

like mine

If Marin brought out the exact same bike for half the price people would continue to buy the cotic.

If Orange did the exact same bike at same price it would be over priced

I had one & thought its was a great frame for what its worth

Mountainbikers are pretty guillable when it comes to marketing and a conservative lot, it's very much 'i like what I know and a I know what I like' that's why so many buy road rats or Whyte hybrids/cross bikes, they are overpriced hybrids with a familiar name on the downtube so they feel comforted and reassured as they trundle along or their dodgy handling slack angled overpriced hybrid.

They like to be on chummy first name terms with the balding awkward person who owns the business who just like them is a bit geeky. They feel like they are being looked after, this and the affirmation of their vanity purchase by their peers makes them feel good about themselves.
If any doubt creeps in there is always the tease of the next improved sycophant MKIII with the slightly beefier downtube coming out (nobody talks about the significant number that had the head tubes fly off)

The short answer is its just another steel bike that's a bit more expensive than the others.

Your not from round here are you? This is a local forum for local bikers!

On the contrary I have been around here for far too long.

Laughing at the bloke who's taken offence at his overly heavy steel frame being called heavy and then trying to justify his choice with utter cobblers about harshness. 😀

See MrSmith's reply

"Mountainbikers are pretty guillable when it comes to marketing and a conservative lot"
Yeah I remember Cotic taking out full page ads selling the Soul in ALL the MTB mags - NOT!

And been a new company with little history in cycle trade, sure it didn't worry any one at all about forking out a load of money and if back up/warranty is going to be any good.

I think the wasn't that many type of frames like the Soul out there at the time and rode a lot better than most other bikes, it well designed for UK type conditions by someone in the UK. (I do think that also helped.)

I've ridden a couple of other steel frames over the years.. and I'm very cynical (and tightfisted) about bike buying..

however.. after killing the most recent steel frame, I saw an ad for a good condition second hand Soul frame, at the right price for me, and curiosity dictated that I should try it to see what all the hype was about..

It's ace, best steel frame that I've ridden.. the geometry is just right..

I have a 2nd gen frame - Orange, from 2005 I think - but it's the mtb I choose to ride most and I've had a few in that time.

Its a brilliant little steel xc/trail frame for 26 inch wheels.

If that is what you are after then yes - its great. I had one, and a 26er Simple. Loved them both. Now I run 29ers.

If you are after something else then not so good.

...overly heavy steel frame being called heavy...

Yes, it's so heavy that practically every other 140mm steel frame is heavier than it.

This thread just gets better 😆

I was just interested to know peoples opinions. They look ok, just seems a lot pf them about!

LOL at Duirdh.....as stated above it depends on what you using the bike for, If I ONLY wanted a XC RACE bike then yes I be right beside you and say it on the heavy side compared to other full on XC race bikse out there that are in carbon/ti/ali you are better off with something else.
But if you compare it to Dh/jump bikes I think you find it's a light bike.

But the soul is not really been sold as a "XC race bike" yes you can race XC on it, if you like do that once in a while etc, (it come down to the legs any way)
But when you put it up against other frames in the same cat, it not that heavy.

Anyway it all down to one person "heavy" can be another person "light"

I love the notion that the Soul is 'heavy' ! FFS, I weighed my (second hand £240 so not expensive) medium size Soul frame, with seat clamp, 1990g. Built up single speed 10.4kg, just fitted gears so a shade over 11 now.

The alloy frame (Cube Ltd) that I'd been riding weighs more, and definitely feels harsher on the trails. It's a good comparison, as the frame geometry's exactly the same.

I couldn't tell you how the Soul compares ride-wise with other steel hardtails, I haven't ridden any. But it's a wonderfully compliant frame that pumps and pops off stuff better than my old Cube IMO.

The two I've tried were ok abut not worth paying 3 times the price of my On-One.

I've only ever had demo rides on a Cotic so my opinion is certainly not definitive.
Worth saying that I come from a mostly HT background, my only FS bikes have been full on XC race bikes so quite spindly and light rather than full on "trail" FS.

I had a great ride in the Peaks on Cy's personal 953 Soul (when he was testing the feasibility of making one in 953 rather than 853) and the bike was superb. Really solid front end that just went where it was pointed and refused to be knocked off line but a really flickable, whippy back end. Super comfy yet just felt fast.

The 853 ones I rode didn't quite have that same bouncy feel but they were just lovely bikes that felt right.

Having said that, I rode a Cotic Hemlock out in the Pyrenees and didn't really like it at all, I just couldn't get the feel for it - no idea why. 🙁

Really solid front end that just went where it was pointed and refused to be knocked off line...

Good forks and handlebars are great aren't they?

What I find amusing is how the likes of Mr Smith gets all excited about people liking a brand, with no mention of actually owning said brand and riding it to justify his opinion. I bought mine 7-8 years ago, just before or after Cy finally decided to make a go of the business as I beleive he was working as an engineer. Thats after riding bikes for over 20 years and working in bike shops for 6 years. I then came into some money and decided to listen to the "marketing hype" as described by Mr Smith and bought a high value, high end aluminium FS and sold my ancient and battered Soul. It lasted 6 months before it broke. I then bought a 2007 secondhand Soul in 2011 and I am now riding it again, loving it and wondering why I even bothered with FS. The Soul is a fantastically made and designed bike for those who are prepared to ride it. The designer is a really nice bloke who also rides and works within the mtb community for improving trail access. I have never found him to be balding or awkward (that's a good description of me) but I admit he is a bike geek, but isn't that why I buy his frames? Wouldn't you enlist an IT geek to fix your PC?

Had many mtb's since 1986 and I'd say its pretty much the best bike I've had. Thought it was all just hype and bullish.t but I tried one and was very impressed so bought one. Set up for the type of riding I do with a leaning towards not to heavy (25ilbs) with a 100 to 140 fork. Handles everything the Dales and Peak has to offer. It's been my bike of choice since the purchase, it a sort of old friend now. In some ways it reminds me of my old Kona Explosif but better in everyway. It's the cheapest frame I have bought in years.

Enjoy the bike not the bullish.t. Have fun and ride

Empty

Good forks and handlebars are great aren't they?

🙂
To be fair, with me being used to lightweight XC race bikes, the forks that were on the Cotic were a whole world of stiffness better than the noodly little SIDs I was used to!

Rob, a Soul frame is heavier than many Alu 4x/dj frames.. No idea why you brought DH frames ito your argument?
Most steel frames are heavy, why is this so difficult for many steel frame owners to accept?

Loving the trolling and the defensive fretters on this thread. I've got an older Soul and i like it, no idea what it weighs, but i do love being 'in' on shit. I was happy to pay the premium for the cotic brand; I'm roadie with loads of pricey foreign carbon, so i liked the British mtb company thing. I wouldn't proclaim i could tell the difference between a gas pipe inbred or any 853 bike, I'm guessing there must be, but compared to my road bikes mtb's always feel inefficient. But they do put a smile on my face.
Folk justify all manner of premium brand stuff on 'performance' grounds and other spurious reasons, but why not? why not spunk your hard earned on something that makes you happy, nowt wrong with some frivolity; it's fun! I ride because I love it, not for anything else.

Sending you all a big sloppy kiss from BaldyGeek Towers.

[subliminal message]Souls are rubbish. You all need to buy Rockets. FS is The Future[/subliminal message]

Marketing Genius = Cy

Let me just add to this [s]Troll[/s] thread. Helmets are life savers and it should be made law to wear one, especially when riding your Cotic Soul 🙄 !!

PS... very happy with my Soul thank you.

Like so much on this forum, people seem to be searching for absolutes, which in the mtb world is impossible really. We all want to be validated by buying 'the right thing' or by not buying what others see as the 'right thing'. It's just a bike. I have one, I like it, you might not. Other steel HTs are available!

Haha. I need to meet you MrSmith. You are my ****ing hero. Let's go for a walk about Soho in our brogues sometime soon.

Rob, a Soul frame is heavier than many Alu 4x/dj frames.. No idea why you brought DH frames ito your argument?
Most steel frames are heavy, why is this so difficult for many steel frame owners to accept?

I hate to bring FACTS into your argument but that's not what google is telling me:

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=79768&pagenum=1
http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/frames/two6player

But maybe I have the wrong facts?

To answer the OP's question, Yes (for me anyway) It does it's most important job really well..Makes we want to go out and ride it.

But to join the general debate. I bought mine (2nd hand off here) and chose it for a number of reasons, including I really liked what it looked like and that people on here really rated them.

Of the 20 or so people I have been out riding with this week I think 18 of them had not even heard of Cotic (one had one but was not riding it, I found out in the pub) and none of them go on STW. My point being that STW introduced me to a bike I Probably would not have considered, that I love riding.

I would be genuinely interested what similar frames (or if they think Steel is not the way go) people would have in preference to the soul ?

and FWIW I also have an steel Inbred and the Soul to me is worth every extra penny.

you ran off to Google to find an Alu 4x frame that is heavier? 😆 Well done! Doesn't alter the FACT many others are lighter.

Souls are utter rubbish, get a BFe.

I have a Mk1 Soul. I've had it for years and don't really ride any other bikes, and I didn't have a particularly good one before so I can't make any useful comparison with anything else.

Sometimes I set it up singlespeed and sometimes with gears. Mostly I ride on Cannock Chase and often I ride Lakes, Peaks, Scotland Wales, some trail centres and some natural stuff. Some of these trips are 3 dayesr, usually in the depth of winter.

All I know is I often get home knackered but usually finish the ride with a big stupid (59 yr old) grin (except that long cold wet day last month at CYB where it had been pouring the whole 7 hours and we got back in the dark with no lights and my waterproof turned out not to be) and I'm always looking forward to my next ride.

It goes up all the hills I want to ride up and it goes down all the hills I want to ride down, better than me.

I don't really know what more I would want from a bike.

you ran off to Google to find an Alu 4x frame that is heavier? Well done! Doesn't alter the FACT many others are lighter.

No, I ran off to google to find some DJ frame weights. Could you link me to some DJ/4X frames which are lighter? I'd like to see some facts rather than opinions.

Also, unless I've totally misunderstood 4X racing, the bikes are built to be as light as they can get away with for a season of racing, without breaking mid-race. Like a race BMX: Minimum weight and maximum stiffness at the expense of longterm resistance to fatigue failure. Very different to a DJ bike which is strong enough handle frequent crashes or an XC bike which is strong enough to handle countless hours of fatigue cycles.

It's a perfectly good do-it-all steel 26 HT. Is it 'the best'? I don't know I haven't ridden them all. But it's a safe bet to buy though because you know you'll resell it OK. I bought one because I wanted an HT for my first self-build and it was obvious on here that there was critical mass behind it. I bought one because people buy them, to put it another way.

I suspect there is a bit of brand-premium built into the pricing. Fair-dos take it or leave it, we all have a choice.

After having my Mk2 Soul I bought a Dialled Love/Hate - I actually preferred the ride of the L/H, it was a little softer. If the Mk3 Soul is stiffer than the Mk2 it wouldn't be for me. (I have since switched to 29, had there been a Solaris around to demo I would have done).

Cy's a smart guy, good on him.

Souls are utter rubbish, get a BFe

I intend to once they have some stock at BaldyGeek towers, if anyone at the towers is tuned in perhaps they could give us an update on that.