Where does it explain how to make progress?

No pudding for you, OP 😉

*like

I like that, but the public transport options seem to be dependent on using full capacity, which doesn’t reflect reality.

Yeah man,then there would be more space to do this

Cities that want to keep growing are going to have to make cycling work.

Seen many variants of this before but it works well as a gif.

the public transport options seem to be dependent on using full capacity, which doesn’t reflect reality.

Isn’t that the point?

The current reality is that (almost) everyone is in a car. The images show how much more space efficient the other transport options would be.

I was sat on the M3 last night heading up to Heathrow to pick Mrs Wachowchow up from the airport and the OP gif popped in my head a lot.

Lots of lanes of traffic all stationary, pretty much one person in each vehicle.

the public transport options seem to be dependent on using full capacity, which doesn’t reflect reality.

Isn’t that the point?

The point is public transport can only be at full capacity at the start/end of its route. A coach might go from one destination to another full, without anyone having to get on or off, but for buses to function as buses they often have to undertake a lot of their route a lot less than full. A bus full of people is no use to someone who needs to catch bus.

If i get a bus from my house to the nearest city then when I get on it I might only have one or two other passengers for company, and we’ll have that bus to ourselves for about 20 miles.

Including yourself ? 🙂

I think this also describes the cult of the motorcar very succinctly

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c[/video]

If i get a bus from my house to the nearest city then when I get on it I might only have one or two other passengers for company, and we’ll have that bus to ourselves for about 20 miles.

And during those twenty miles do you see any cars containing people who could have taken the bus?

Nice GIF, but people wont change their habits now.

We have been putting up with higher fuel prices and worse traffic gradually ever since the car was invented. Hasn’t stopped the growth of traffic yet.

everyone going to different places, would not have two buses, one train, but maybe 10-15 buses, quite a few train lines, most of them partially full, costing more than driving (including the build of the tram/train) and not going just where you want. Cycling/walking wins in towns, but we do like to put people in boxes..

costing more than driving (including the build of the tram/train)

If you want to factor in building costs then you might also want to think about how much prime city centre real estate is devoted to car parking.

So what..unless you get Kim Kardashian to interupt X Factor every week for 5 years, play this gif and tell them to give up the car your still gonna be surrounded by petrolhead zombies whos idea of heaven is a white audi.

Post it on your fb and move on.

Funny enough, only this morning I was driving to work with 2 kids in the car (10 years and 18 months) with my Laptop, 3 box files, 2 client PCs that need work done on them, the Microscooter my Son wants for his half-term club and a mental list of the shopping I need to get on the way home when it struck me I’d should really take the 3 Buses it would take to do the same journey (each way) it’s only laziness holding me back – after all, it would merely cost me 3 times as much as it does in fuel and take and extra hour each way.

But I guess the OP did say “almost everything”

….or get he shopping delivered, the boy rides his scooter to school and you find a child minder locally for you baby? Or your an exception and only the people sat in their Range rovers with a just phone for company get a bus/walk/cycle.

Jef Wachowchow said »
Lots of lanes of traffic all stationary, pretty much one person in each vehicle.

Including yourself ?

Apart from my boy, yes. The irony was not lost on me. Of course once I picked up Maddie and my daughter we were at capacity.

Lots of lanes of traffic all stationary, pretty much one person in each vehicle.

They were probably all going to, or from, different places. Or both.

P-Jay: someone always makes some variation of that decidely silly argument:

“How am I supposed to get a four kids, two flat pack wardrobes and six months worth of Dime bars home from Ikea on the bus or on a bike?”

You’re not. That’s a perfectly reasonable time to use a car/van.

NO ONE is suggesting that cars need to uninvented and completely eliminated as a travel option.

But the majority of car journeys are single occupancy. Everyone travelling in an individual big metal box with three or four empty seat in it is just not sustainable as the population grows.

But I guess the OP did say “almost everything”

Yes, I did. Very deliberately. I am not ‘anti-car’. I am ‘anti-unnecessary-use-of-the-car’.

EDIT: D’oh! Nice one GrahamS. I must have been typing at the same time as you.

I like that, but the public transport options seem to be dependent on using full capacity, sitting in a bus full of smelly human beings which doesn’t reflect reality. make for a pleasant experience

Also, by the time that you factor in travelling to the place that the bus picks you up, waiting for it, having to set off earlier because it’s unreliable/doesn’t quite fit your work hours/drops of a twenty minute walk away, sitting in a nice comfy air conditioned box listening to Eddie Mahr for an hour is sounding more attractive by the minute.

Mass transit makes sense in VERY dense cities. I suspect we only have a few square miles of that sort of landscape in the whole UK.

Lots of lanes of traffic all stationary, pretty much one person in each vehicle.

They were probably all going to, or from, different places. Or both.

Well quite. There has to be a change at some point though. The M3 has been being worked on for years now with seemingly no end to the work and no real benefit at the end. We are spending millions on our roads to just maintain the status quo of lots of bloody traffic all the time.

And during those twenty miles do you see any cars containing people who could have taken the bus?

Potentially, probably not a bus full, for the bus to set full from here a quarter of the local population would have to get on it. 🙂

I’m not advocating anything just pointing out that buses can’t operate at full capacity to be useful as buses.

Also, by the time that you factor in travelling to the place that the bus picks you up, waiting for it, having to set off earlier because it’s unreliable/doesn’t quite fit your work hours/drops of a twenty minute walk away, sitting in a nice comfy air conditioned box listening to Eddie Mahr for an hour is sounding more attractive by the minute.

This.

My car may be expensive to run….actually its not, my insurance now i’m in my 30s is bugger all…fuel is cheap…MOT is cheap if the car passes…tax is cheap as its a small petrol etc etc….and the biggest plus as listed above is convenience, public transport doesnt come close….in fact there isnt any in my town at the time my shifts start (6am by the way)….that means walking miles to work in the dark and wet during winter, no thanks….or cycling miles to work in the cold, dark and wet during winter, no again….then factor in getting up earlier to allow for the additional commuting time and my working life starts to look even less appealing than it does already.

….or i could just get in my car, stay warm and dry…listen to some music, get up later, carry my work kit without hassle….maybe pack my squash gear and go straight from work to the sports centre after work….Mmm, convenient…actually that last bit is a lie too, i stopped playing squash a few years ago as the two mates i play with both work in London and get the train to/from work…it became farcical trying to book a court and keep the booking, the trains would inevitably be late or cancelled altogether so we stopped bothering in the end….go public transport!

Mass transit makes sense in VERY dense cities. I suspect we only have a few square miles of that sort of landscape in the whole UK.

IF ONLY we were an intelligent species, we might be able to come up with a solution to this problem!

If we gave a shit, we could go a long way towards making it make sense.

public transport doesnt come close….in fact there isnt any in my town at the time my shifts start

We’re not blaming people for not taking busses, we’re blaming governments for not making the busses or trains good enough to make people want to take them.

Cars are what make many cities really unpleasant to be in. Rome would be a great place to visit without the traffic. With the traffic it’s a noisy, stinking, dangerous hell hole. Hardly any bikes, scooters ignore pedestrian red lights, cars thrash around – what a dump.

Rome also convinced me that electric cars aren’t the answer. Fastest away from the lights were the BMW electric cars which rocketed away in silence and scared the last pedestrians on crossings to death.

From an environmental point of view it would make no sense running a bus to suit everyone, there has to be a sensible line in the sand.

I drive 7.5 miles to work because I work shifts and have to either pick up child after work or its a night shift and there no chance I’m cycling that. That leaves back shifts which invariably end with me cycling home at midnight in the howling wind and pissing rain after a shift involving god knows what leaving me cold and wet and needing a shower before I crawl into bed to repeat the next day after getting up at god knows what time to look after the sprog if its a day off for her.

The day workers have no excuse mind, the amount of single occupancy journeys are ridiculous especially now we have an outage with several times more folk on site every day,.

The missus on the other hand can get a convenient train for her 35 mile commute even if it is only one an hour. Go figure.

I don’t think it’s a silly argument, but labelling car users as single occupiers with nothing more to carry than thier mobiles on their range rovers is a massive over simplification of the problem and frankly just anti-car bile.

Instead of taking a view of “stereotypical” drivers I think about my family and friends and everyone who can cycle / bus / train does – driving and parking is stressful and expensive, but most of us still drive because there isn’t a viable alternative.

Just telling people to give up thier cars doesn’t work, nor does labelling car users as selfish / lazy / stupid or whatever.

most of us still drive because there isn’t a viable alternative.

If you want to have the option you have to choose where you live more carefully.

7.5 miles to work….
a night shift

I cycle to work for night shifts. I’m not sure why it is impossible for you.

That leaves back shifts which invariably end with me cycling home at midnight in the howling wind and pissing rain

I seem to recall a stat which showed that the average commuter could expect to get rained on about half a dozen times a year. You must be very unlucky, or perhaps you are just making up excuses

How did we ever have a functioning society before mass car ownership?

Curitiba in Brazil has had a very good answer for decades- but that’s Latin America and what do they know.
Impressive city lanning/governance in many ways.

From a carrot cruncher a townie thou cannot maketh.

Us country folk have no alternative and no desire or need to live in urban areas, nor do we clog them up as we hyperventilate at the thought of traffic and crowds.

I live in Snowdonia, and the nearest bus stop is 1.5 miles away. I chose there as its a nice place to be. Buses are not very regular. The train station is 9 miles away and the cost and lack of reliability of the trains means it’s a waste of time unless you have all the time in the world to get there (as long as there’s a line to where you’re going).
I want to go where I want, when I want.
It’s nice to have this kind of “perfect world” you’re killing the environment with your fossil fuel destroying, killing all kittens with pollution vehicle attitude but how does it work in reality? It doesn’t if you don’t live in a city.

I think about my family and friends and everyone who can cycle / bus / train does

Really?

I know lots of people (including myself!) who use the car every day when there are other options available.

The car is typically the easy lazy option and people are “lazy”.

That’s not intended as an insult against people, it’s just a fact of social behaviour (and probably evolution) that we naturally gravitate towards the easiest option.

how does it work in reality?

The point is that we as a society need to MAKE it work. This isn’t a personal tirade, don’t take it as such.

How did we ever have a functioning society before mass car ownership?

It weren’t that different:

I cycle to work for night shifts. I’m not sure why it is impossible for you.

Well bully for you old chum, I prefer not to run the risk of death on unlit A roads with long bends and poor visibility. Its not impossible but rather arduous which, if you’ve been working hard all night and not just sitting on your arse (see, I can make presumptions too), is the last thing you want at the end of a shift.

I seem to recall a stat which showed that the average commuter could expect to get rained on about half a dozen times a year. You must be very unlucky, or perhaps you are just making up excuses

I live on the west coast of Scotland in an area where they decided that offshore wind turbines could be suitably tested on the damn land. It rains most of the time here as opposed to the Costa del Sol or whatever fabulous little enclave it is you live in. And if it’s not actual rain its the wind whipping the water into a fine horizontal shower that makes hail look tame by comparison. If the weather wasn’t so shitty then yes, I would cycle more often, but quite frankly I’d bet on more luck having a personal pneumatic tube built for the commute.

I think you need to get off that high horse and realise that there is a whole world out there beyond your own perceptions and experiences.