[Closed] Almost as alarming as the trams - Scottish Gamekeepers Association

Wow, wonder what the 'exit strategy' looks like.

Given the significant number of protected birds of prey that are shot every year around grouse moors perhaps the gameskeepers assume every species is as myopic as their members when it comes to identifying targets.

Should they not be more worried that it is clearly targeting the clergy ? One for the conspiracist thread...

There are reports of buzzards which have obviously undergone this desensitisation and this has resulted in them attacking people

& why would gamekeepers be concerned exactly? Do they want the small children for themselves?
Or as usual with gamekeepers of large estates with many guns, is it down to financial reasons?

Buzzards do attack people.

Clearly alarmist rubbish. I have been underneath nesting buzzards before and whilst they were not happy and made it clear, they were a damn site less aggressive than bloody herring gulls.

I have worked on estates before. You would not believe how much people pay to shoot grouse. That is were this nonsense stems from.

Aye, complete rubbish...just a group of people looking out for their livelihoods (which is fair enough) but are coming across as complete eejits!

How the hell do you corner a Sea Eagle? I've heard of Buzzards attacking people near Selkirk.

I reckon that as long as you're wearing a helmet and the Sea Eagle has already had 1g of protein per Kg of body weight, then getting on a tram across the new Forth Crossing should see you safe.

There is buzzard in Yair forest (Selkirk) that is locally famous for attacking people, it is not just defensive, it will chase you a good 1/2 mile along the trail. Several local riders have lost flesh to it.

Birds do not attack people, they only defend themselves/nests

If you get close to a nest most birds will try to decoy you away or resort to a physical attack.

This includes geese which are well known for it.

The truth is grouse fly downwind normally, unless there is a bird of prey in the air and this annoys estates.

i think that shooting grouse although a lot of money is actually quite good value in consideration of the costs

In fairness I think they've got a point on the confusion thing though.
[img] [/img]

Can we organise a Gamekeeper shoot on moorland somewhere please. That I would happliy pay to take part in.
As far as a Sea Eagle attacking a child is concerned, why on earth would they? They're [b]fish[/b] Eagles, they mainly hunt fish, like Ospreys, which are [b]fish[/b] Hawks. The clue is in the name; there are few children to be found in the middle of sea Lochs.

Well, they cannot tell the difference between an fluffy bunny and a clergyman....
[url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-14631018 [/url]

As far as a Sea Eagle attacking a child is concerned, why on earth would they? They're fish Eagles, they mainly hunt fish, like Ospreys, which are fish Hawks. The clue is in the name; there are few children to be found in the middle of sea Lochs.

The Erne( another name for them) will mainly eat birds I think with a few fish and a few mammals. Likes carrion as well hence the use by gamekeepers of poisoned baits to kill them.

Even so they did well this year raising a good few young. The gamekeepers did get a few tho

Really TJ?

I've just looked through the official report for 2010, which are the latest figures, published just a couple of weeks ago - and there was only one recorded incident of pesticides found in Sea Eagle carcasses, which is subsequently the subject of an ongoing police investigation

So, I call bullshit on your statement, and unless you can back up your claims, I'll keep calling bullshit until you do!

Indeed,gamekeepers, whilst I understand their motives, get pretty heavily smashed for getting rid of birds of prey, poisoning or otherwise.

When they do get caught, especially with high profile birds, its public prosecution time.

So I would not suggest gamekeepers 'did get a few'

ZE - TJ was talking about this years figures 2011.
If you know the right folk, you don't need to trawl teh interwebz for reports to find the facts.

So, I call bullshit on your statement, and unless you can back up your claims, I'll keep calling bullshit until you do!

Bit of an overreaction there Zulu-Eleven, still I guess it is to be expected of you. TJ merely claimed that gamekeepers 'get a few', even you admit of a suspected poisoning last year.

Yes really. Sea eagles have been poisoned and many birds are each year Glenogil estates worth naming and shaming as their record is shameful

3 ernes that we know of illegally killed on the estate in the last few years.

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/category/2011-persecution-incidents/

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Sea-eagle-found-poisoned-.5995940.jp

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/record-penalty-for-poisoning-at-glenogil-estate-angus/

http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/2010/01/27/scottish-sea-eagle-poisoning-investigation-results-made-public-after-5-months/

last few years

Thats not what you claimed though, is it 🙄

So, you can you support your claims then TJ, or not?

Can you show me any examples of a poisoned sea eagle, or a sea eagle shown to be killed by a gamekeeper, in 2011 ?

I don't think it needs to come down to an argument. Grouse shooting last time I worked on an estate (20 yrs ago) was 14k per [i]wee[/i]k.

From an estates point of view anything that predates a grouse is a problem.

There is a motive to kill grouse predators. Its obviously wrong, I am not saying I happens on all estates, but there you have it.

Surprising though this may seem to some, this forum is not a court of law and thus it is possible for people to potentially present knowledge without supporting evidence.
So for instance, it is hypothetically possible that I may know of a gamekeeper who may have killed some buzzards because a group of them may have started predating on pheasant chicks.
Had this hypothetical event taken place, I would not be able to offer any evidence that it had occurred other than hearsay, but it's worth remembering -
'Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence'

A forum is an exchange of ideas, not a bloody court of law

IanMunro - TJ made a claim, I asked him to back it up as I think he's bullshitting, and jumping on a "gamekeepers kill eagles bandwagon", that exaggerates the problem far beyond what actually takes place.

I've got no evidence to prove that he was, of course - but then, I know a bloke that says he was abducted by aliens, and I've got no evidence to prove that he wasn't 😉

Unless TJ can back up his claim, I'll stand my ground, and say he's bullshitting...

I know a bloke that says he was abducted by aliens

Zulu-Eleven is that your guru Dan Hannan ?

don't worry - I ain't falling for zulus piffle. Game keepers regularly poison raptors all over the UK, quite a few sea eagle have been killed. One found dead in January this year with pesticides in its liver in angus

It clearly does not happen on all estates but some persist in killing raptors willfully.

Detective Inspector Ally Waghorn said: "It is an absolute disgrace that the use of pesticides to kill what are seen by some as pest species continues in Scotland.

Trail of illegal poisonings that leads to shooting estate

PREVIOUS incidents of suspected wildlife crime on or close to Glenogil Estate include:

May 2006: Suspected rabbit poisoned bait found – tests by Science and Advice for Scottish Agriculture lab confirmed it had been laced with outlawed pesticide carbofuran.

June 2006: Bait found laced with carbofuran, also found on equipment and vehicles. Estate owner John Dodd subsequently had £107,000 withdrawn from his single farm payment subsidy by the Scottish Government. He is appealing against this.

November 2007: Tayside Police informed [b]a white-tailed eagle had been shot by a Glenogil estate employee[/b]. No carcase was found, but the bird, fitted with a radio transmitter, is still missing.

May 2008: [b]A white-tailed eagle[/b] known as White G was found dead by a neighbouring landowner. It had been poisoned with carbofuran and other pesticides.

Three days later, Tayside Police and RSPB staff found the carcase of a buzzard lying next to the Glenogil Estate boundary fence. It had been poisoned.

Carcase of a hare was found to have been laced with same chemicals that killed eagle.

October 2008: A meat bait is found on a fence post within Glenogil Estate, laced with an illegal chemical mix.
d
August 2009: [b]Dead white-tailed eagle found on estate, poisoned with carbofuran.[/b]

March 2009: Two dead buzzars found on the estate. Both birds had been poisoned.

 

One found dead in January this year with pesticides in its liver in angus

From SASA

[i]This bird was found dead behind a stock fence near to an area of forestry. [b]The analytical investigation failed to provide any evidence to implicate pesticide poisoning[/b] but confirmed the presence of low residues of bromadiolone, brodifacoum and difenacoum in liver tissue.[/i]

TJ, For the sake of clarity - you claimed that:

Even so they did well this year raising a good few young. The gamekeepers did get a few tho

So, once again TJ - can you back up your claims, where are the "few" that the gamekeepers "got" or were you bullshitting?

I suggest you look at the spreadsheet on here zulu.

last year 4 golden eagles and 1 sea eagle confirmed as poisoned.

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/category/2011-persecution-incidents/ <

Whoa there, thats [b]Last[/b] Year TJ!

You claimed that

Even so they did well [u]this year[/u] raising a good few young. The gamekeepers[u] did get a few tho[/u]

So, come on, can you back up your claim, or not?

don't worry - I ain't falling for zulus piffle.

But you are. You're responding to him in exactly the way he wants. Just ignore or ridicule him. Did you know TJ, that Zulu-Eleven recently accused me of posting the 'most racist' post he had ever seen on STW ? ....I kid you not.

Argggh, I tried to say it before. You can argue off spreadsheets if you want.

Birds of prey are killed deliberately by humans in some instances, you don't need an autopsy ffs. Its economics as bloody usual.

I have heard the same shit from fisherman killing seals, basically any predator that goes after human prey is doomed.

he did ernie? ridiculous even by his semi detached standards

'most racist'

No, I didn't - and if you can show me where I used the exact quote you've claimed above - 'most racist' - I'll give you fifty pounds 🙄

While everyone is furiously looking for that quote and the 50 notes, I just wanted to say

THERE IS NO DANGER OF SEA EAGLES SWOOPING YOUR CHILDREN FROM THEIR BUGGIES

SHOP AS USUAL

he did ernie? ridiculous even by his semi detached standards

Yup. And I've just checked, it was also the 'most offensive' thing ever written on STW !

This is the actual quote : [i]"I honestly think that that is the most patronising, offensive, racist thing I've ever seen written on STW". [/i]

Strangely enough I wasn't banned for posting the 'most offensive and racist' post ever on STW.

Heechee - what about if you have them in bunny outfits?

looks like ernie is £50 up so far...

I see you've revised your claim on what I said Ernie - I suppose my money is safe 😉

Would that be where [u]you told us that you know what its like being Black[/u] Ernie?

Enjoy the car crash all:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-value-has-a-human-life#post-2879672

nope.. ernie's deffo £50 up..

and monsieur zulu is coming across as using a BBB defense as a last resort in the face of overwhelming support for the opposition..

I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims on the missing poisoned Sea Eagles TJ

ernie_lynch - Member

Zulu-Eleven recently accused me of posting the 'most racist' post he had ever seen on STW ? ....I kid you not.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

'most racist'

No, I didn't - and if you can show me where I used the exact quote you've claimed above - 'most racist' - I'll give you fifty pounds

Zulu-Eleven - Member
I honestly think that that is [b]the most[/b] patronising, offensive, [b]racist[/b] thing I've ever seen written on STW.

Seems pretty clear cut to me. You owe Ernie £50