mastiles_fanylion, you drive a white posh hairdresser car (joke). He probably couldnt see you as you were 'camouflaged'. 
Talking of sunglasses. Night before last in Huddersfield at twilight (5.00ish) I saw an Asian driver wearing black retro Rayban-SUNGLASSES. 
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why they need them....
Or you could just get one car that does all of the above. They annoy vegetarians too. Which is a bonus.
jd-boy - agreed.
A mate of mine was just saying that in his time in canada they only really started moaning when the snow reached half the height of the house.
Or you could just get one car that does all of the above. They annoy vegetarians too. Which is a bonus.
Or do what some of us do, get a normal car for general duties and a 4x4 for towing/offroading/snow etc, but not everyone has the luxury of space and the extra ~£400 a year in tax/insurance/MOT.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why they need them....
Very good question. I have alot of family (including my Mum who is getting older) in various parts of Huddersfield in the sticks. Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family. In total thats only circa 6 weeks however my car has also proved itself to be surefooted with alot of feedback in all situations. I see it as a variation on the mk2.5 MX5 interms of how it communicates and how it lets you know on grip and when it does let go its never a drama. In the dry going into a roundabout it pulls/sticks like glue and if you dont hook your arm under the armrest you can end up on the passenger seat 
I've no idea what other 4x4's are like- I've only had this one and mine isnt a true offroader due to clearance but it does have a two-ratio box.
You could argue that we dont need powerful fast cars or high BHP/torque diesels either to a degree. Mines proved itself to be utterly ace and a Tonka toy 
I've been thinking what I want next and I still can't decide (and this is coming from the serial car owner)
you drive a white posh hairdresser car
You had a white one before?!!! Or was it you were contemplating a white un originally?
Why do you "need" suspension on your bike mark_b or "need" a mobile phone? We want a 4x4 because we like them. We've got a mobile phone because theyre handy. Suspension on the bike makes it a comfier ride
True, but i don't feel the compulsion to try and justify having a suspended bike in the same way 4x4 drivers keep trotting out their excuses for having one.
Plus maybe my suspended bike actually gets ridden off road a lot more than their 4x4 gets to see dirt.
Apart from when i'm riding my rigid singlespeed of course
Some will know how much I despise athe incompetent large percentage of 4x4 drivers, but there's one other category that makes them seem like good drivers. I am talking about a significant percentage of truck drivers. They have a misplaced belief that they have more of a right to be on our roads that anyone else and often bully and intimidate other road users. My experience is that they cause the majority of motorway accidents with their erratic and careless overtaking etc. Good truckers must be so frustrated at the idiots letting the side down. I by no means denigrate all truck drivers as some are highly professional. We need some sort of visible badging system for these guys to encourage the rest to aspire to their standards.
Yesterday, on a 110 mile stint, i was stuck behind one of these vehicles on a winding A road. It was 0c, but the salting on the road meant that the truck was throwing up lots of mucky spray imparing my visibility, meaning i had to constantly clear my windscreen. I could have hung back (which I often do when a vehicle is making reasonable and consistent progress), but the truck kept significantly altering it's speed for no apparent reason. None of this was particularly out of the ordinary, but what riled me was that he sped up considerably on all the sections where i had a chance of overtaking. Well I hear you say this is what any driver would do given that it is safe to increase your speed on a staight section, however 70mph in a big truck in freezing temperatures on such a road is just riddiculous and illegal! This was only when there weren't oncoming vehicles too.
Eventually i got past him and then on came his high beam because i had briefly sounded my horn as I'd passed him (in case he hadn't seen me). He then slowed back down on the straight section proving that he had been playing games with me and had put my safety at risk. Then, as a passing car approached he dipped his headlamps, but as it passed he put them back on! Utter idiot!
When we stopped at a set of lights in the next town, he pulled up sharp on my bumper. As we moved off, tailgated me.
ERRATIC STUPID FECKERS WITH SHORT FUSES SHOULD NOT BE PUT IN CONTROL OF SUCH LARGE HEAVY VEHICLES - PERIOD!
It's red actually
Does that mean it's faster?
Fop - Premier Membermark_b......would you care to enlighten us as to your make/model of motor car (if indeed you do own one)? We can then debate if you "need" it or could make do with something else
Getting defensive - i like it. I drive an old estate. Do i need it - no. Do i appreciate the quality of life it gives me - yes. Does it give me an overwhelming sense of superiority - i don't need a car to do that for me
What exactly am I getting defensive about...my rear wheel drive 4-door, 5 year old saloon??? Don't think so.
I think you've just argued against yourself there mark_b...as you yourself say, most cars are not "needed", they just give people a "quality of life" which THEY appreciate. They don't need you to vindicate it. A brisk brush with your hand should remove that chip on your shoulder. I don't feel inferior to others just because they're sat a few feet higher than me when driving on the roads but hey, each to their own.
Fop - Agreed.
But I also like my 4x4 as it seems to boil peoples p*iss like nothing else!
I also have a 'normal' car - and I love that too.
mark_b - My 4x4 gets used off road as well!
When we stopped at a set of lights in the next town, he pulled up sharp on my bumper
presumably the truck was still just behind because it was being driven so fast and erratically no one else managed to overtake it - proof indeed about how poor his driving was
Anyone see the press ad for the BMW X5 yesterday? (it was in the times) and showed a X5 driving through snow (motion of speed) and the strap line that it had alot of electronic gizmos that would keep you going no matter what.
Spongebob - find a friendly lorry driver & spend a day in their cab to enlighten yourself as to other drivers inconsiderate habits
You had a white one before?!!! Or was it you were contemplating a white un originally?
Does that mean it's faster?
Spongebob - find a friendly lorry driver & spend a day in their cab to enlighten yourself as to other drivers inconsiderate habits
I tend to agree- we all see the odd 'TORA TORA TORA' driver coming down off the sliproad and slicing onto the carriageway past the trucks in the slow lane etc. The Truckdrivers however must experience this multiple times a day and have to watch their mirrors and cover their brakes just incase I bet.
however 70mph in a big truck in freezing temperatures on such a road is just riddiculous and illegal!
And completely impossible I'd have thought, aren't they meant to be limited to 60 physically?
Its -10c in Texas USA at the momment.
llamafarmer - Member
KT1973 - Member
the extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you
Not so comforting for the mum on the school run in her Vauxhall Corsa though is it? It's like a pointless arms race - the only way you can be safe in a crash with a 4x4 is to have one yourself.
Posted 11 hours ago # Report-Post
That's true and I've considered this often but you have to look after your own first and I want to give them the best chance possible. Do you remember the story about that pissed up footballer who crashed his Range Rover into a family car and killed their 2 sons. Absolutely tragic and I don't think I could deal with that. There are some situations that will be completely outwith your control but you do what you can. I was never a fan of the things before and it took me a while to convince the mrs but she loves it now and it gives me some peace of mind, whether that added protection be perceived or real.
I've recruited another **** to the cause. He never saw the point of a 4x4. An hour cross country in mine today and he's buying one at the weekend. He couldn't believe what it was capable of.
I used to feel the same about 4x4's until I had kids myself, so it's mainly for the wife to use
What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives.
What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives.
The people who don't care enough about their kids to use a 4x4 lose.
Please, please tell me that was a joke.
but you have to look after your own first
Presumably you also think we should stop sending money to Africa? Or you'd be happy for a school 100 miles away to close if it meant more money for the one your kids go to?
I feel very sorry for your kids if they are being brought up with such totally selfish attitudes being presented to them as normal.
Very good question. I have alot of family (including my Mum who is getting older) in various parts of Huddersfield in the sticks. Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family.
I've never been to Huddersfield, so maybe you could enlighten me. Is it some tiny little hamlet cut-off from main roads? Does it suffer from endless weeks of snow and ice keeping folk trapped in their houses? Are the roads (sorry, tracks I presume) in such a poor state of repair that normal cars are unusable?
If a 4x4 is invaluable in Huddersfield, are there any 2wd Huddersfieldians on here who have had big problems getting around the last couple of years?
Bloke in the Ranger Rover that ploughed in the back of the car killing 2 – was drunk, had taken drug, was on the phone and reputably committing a sexual act whilst driving at over 100mph – using that incident as an exemplar of how safe 4x4 are speaks volumes about the sort of people who drive such vehicles
As I recall they tend to do very badly in the ENCAP rating for both passenger and pedestrian safety
Farms & grouse moors are the best place for them
Far too many tree hugger types on this forum these days.....
KT1973 - Memberthe extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you
Not so comforting for the mum on the school run in her Vauxhall Corsa though is it? It's like a pointless arms race - the only way you can be safe in a crash with a 4x4 is to have one yourself.
3L engine block at head height is nothing less than dangerously antisocial.
FWIW, if you are involved in a head on collision in a big 4x4, with a smaller car, the engine of the smaller car is quite commonly forced under the big cars engine, lifting it into the driver compartment, and forcing the clutch pedal into the drivers legs/crotch.
no mercy for the small car though, theyre still just as dead.
What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives
but you have to look after your own firstPresumably you also think we should stop sending money to Africa? Or you'd be happy for a school 100 miles away to close if it meant more money for the one your kids go to?
Not the best analogy there either. If it was between giving food to my kids OR giving it to some africans I'd give it to mine. Africa needs stable uncorrupted government, education, better infrastructure and rubber jonnies but that is another can of worms altogether.....and there's no need to feel sorry for my kids. They are being brought up very well with good moral values thankyou very much.
breakneckspeed - Member
Bloke in the Ranger Rover that ploughed in the back of the car killing 2 – was drunk, had taken drug, was on the phone and reputably committing a sexual act whilst driving at over 100mph – using that incident as an exemplar of how safe 4x4 are speaks volumes about the sort of people who drive such vehicles
As I recall they tend to do very badly in the ENCAP rating for both passenger and pedestrian safety
Farms & grouse moors are the best place for them
You're taking what I said out of context here. I'm not using this as an advert for 4x4 safety. I was completely shocked when I heard this. That family have been devastated. It's one of the things that made me think "what if it happened to me?" so under the circumstances I decided it would be safer to have this type of car to protect my family. We don't drive around drunk in it with reckless abandon safe in the knowledge that it's indestructable and we could never be hurt. It's not a battering ram, it's just a car.
Exactly my point – it just a car – it is no safer then any other and in certain situations can be more dangerous to both the occupants and those outside of it.
I have no axe to grind with people who genuinely and regularly use four wheel drive eg farmers
That's extremely unlikely. They're strapped in and can't get out and if this happened in any other car the damage could be just as bad. Daft statement really.
Not that unlikely. I've seen umpteen examples of women on the school run turning round to shout at kids in the backseat (in all types of car to be fair). There's got to be a good chance that a small percentage of them will at some point run into the back of another car, and in that case the damage is far more likely to be greater in a 4x4 for the simple reason they are so much heavier. So not a daft statement at all I'd suggest. No-one is suggesting the safety of your family shouldn't be a priority, the problem is many 4x4 drivers are quite willing to risk other families being destroyed to protect their own.
I've recruited another **** to the cause. He never saw the point of a 4x4. An hour cross country in mine today and he's buying one at the weekend. He couldn't believe what it was capable of.
So when do you actually need, and I do mean "need" to go off-road? As far as I understand all that hour you spent off-road will have achieved is to destroy some countryside. And yes, I do realise you can accuse mountain bikers, and indeed walkers, of doing the same, but not to anywhere even close to the same level.
To be fair I'm from near Huddersfield and have driven a 2WD car around that area during a snowy period a few years ago and yes it was complete arse so I can see why a person would go for a 4x4 over there (small roads and lumpy terrain). Sure a 2WD is ok but I can see a 4x4 being much easier.
I went out to buy a new shape Mondeo estate as my next car, it's huge on the outside but inside the front seats felt really cramped and although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.
We then had a look at an X-trail and the space inside was amazing considering it's not that big'a car. Front was nice, spacious and really comfy.
I also go off road a fair bit (I live in the country). It's a great car (sorry).
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