'12 Orange Five Pro or Orange ST4 Pro for UK Trails?

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'12 Orange Five Pro or Orange ST4 Pro for UK Trails?

41 posts & 19 voices | Started 5 months ago by ryanw | Latest reply from ryanw

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ryanw - Member

Evening all,

Been out all day on a 2012 Orange ST4 Pro and loved every minute of it! The bike feels like a 140mm+ travel bike on the downhill, climbs ridiculously well for a 27lb bike and makes you bust your lungs (in a good way) on the flats.

I'm that impressed with the bike that I'm looking to purchase one. The only problem I now have, is do I buy one and regret not getting a Five Pro (which I've never had the chance to ride), or put my sensible head on and realise that my riding skills will probably fail before I need that extra 20mm of travel?

So, have any of you had a chance to ride both (any variant) and how do you think they compared?

I know the Five is a proven bike with an excellent reputation, but do I really NEED the extra travel for UK trails?

The bikes are pretty much exactly the same price, I just want to make sure that I pick the right one!

Cheers all...

Posted 5 months ago #
Mal-ec - Member

For the money you are spending try a Five on similar trails. I rode allot of different bikes before settling on the ST4.

Do a search for ST4 over the last year or so + you'll pick up several threads that have discussed this.

FWIW I've been riding a 2011 ST4 for just under a year now + rate it better than the older version + have maybe wished I was riding a Five for less than a minute of that time (Drop off >3' + one very steep stupidly rocky / tech / fast descent, yep thats all I can think of). Otherwise caned it round everything.

Not the lightest/fastest XC bike but fine for Dyfi enduro type events (where you will overtake allot of Fives ), you will rarely be passed or see anyone having more fun at a trail centre, up or down*. My favorite bike to ride round Brechfa / CyB / ClimachX / Afan e.t.c + didn't feel outgunned riding down Snowdon.

Very capable trail bike IME. Reminds me of a Soul in that it is good at getting you to the fun bits + then allows you to give it some when you get there. Not the bike for everyone, but I found the fit, feel + geo spot on. Whereas for me the Yeti ARC 5's have knack all clearance, SC TRc's are mental expensive, 'dale RZ120's are great, more efficient, but a whisker too small + not as capable, Fives too flacid, blah blah. Goldilocks eh?

Five might be a better choice if most of your riding is big mountain rocky (Lakes e.t.c.) or DH tracks

PS Good forks make allot of difference IME. RS Reba maxle BB damping here.

*Riding speeds may vary with ale/pie intake

Posted 5 months ago #
Alex - Member

What Alec ^^ said I've ridden my 2011 ST4 just under 2000 kilometres since Sept10. Also much prefer it to the 2009 it replaced. It's been through one set of bearings and a DU bush. I did a couple of Pyrenees "adventuring by bicycle" carrying 10k packs and chucking it down VTT blacks without feeling under-biked. Under-skilled possibly

As Alec says, not the lightest for that amount of travel, but a really versatile bike that is always fun to ride.

Not ridden a five for a few years so can't directly compare, but preferred it to my (now sold) Pace405 because it's a great fit for me (long, loads of standover, low BB)

Posted 5 months ago #
ryanw - Member

Great informative replies, muchly appreciated!

I thought it was a bit of a hefty XC bike when I picked it up, however; it really doesn't fit into the XC bracket in my eyes, it's so much more bike IMHO! It took on the DH parts of my local trail with ease, such a hoot, and then I was able to climb back up the other side without too much effort!

The bike was ever so planted, really well balanced and gave me loads of confidence. I found myself hitting corners at speeds I'd never normally attempt, and when things did go wrong, the bike was very predictable and I was able to hold on per se.

I keep looking at the ST4 SE model but not sure if I can justify the extra £1500 for full XTR kit?!.... 0% finance anyone?! Haha....

Posted 5 months ago #
ryanw - Member

I'm also doing a charity bike ride tomorrow from Nottingham to Derby, only 21 miles, but will see how it is for comfort (got it on loan from LBS).....

Shall report back!

Posted 5 months ago #
mojo5pro - Member

It all depends on what type of riding you do. UK trails vary so much, so if it's smooth, flowy suff and you want to put the miles in then an st4's probably spot on . If it's rocky stuff that you do more then a longer travel bike may be more fun. The notion that you don't need a long travel bike for any UK trails is ridiculas.Try riding some of the rougher stuff in Scotland, Wales, Lakes etc and see whether you can do it faster and smoother on an st4 or a patriot?
Get the bike you want

Posted 5 months ago #
pedlad - Member

St4 not least for not looking like everyone else. I'm yet to find the limits of mine or get left behind by any of my 5 riding mates Absolutely perfect for all the local riding, a hoot on the verderers at fod and coped better than I did at cyb earlier in the year.

With no real weight advantage I think it comes down to looks. I'm not keen on the 5 and don't need that much travel. If you'd like an Orange, like the way it rides and don't need it for the lakes or alps then it's a great choice.

Posted 5 months ago #
Northwind - Member

I really didn't rate the ST4 much, couldn't see the point to it really- doesn't really climb any better than a Five but gives away loads of capability. I'd sooner have an Anthem X. Though to be fair, that was an early model.

Posted 5 months ago #
grantway - Member

5

Posted 5 months ago #
Kit - Member

Have a 2010 ST4 (old style) and I love it. Not particularly light with the build I have, but a pretty good climber and with 120mm Maxle Rebas it has been just as capable as the Cove Hustler I had for a while. Not for one minute have a missed the extra travel. Ridden it in the Lakes and was not hindered by it at all, but then I've not ridden any stupidly steep/rocky trails.

Some problems with chainsuck but apparently that has been solved with the new frame design.

Posted 5 months ago #
wors - Member

Did you go for the ST4 in the end Ryan?

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

An ST4 didn't even cross my mind when I bought my Five, but the Five is playing on your mind whilst thinking about buying an ST4.

If I were you I would get a Five, they do everything the ST4 does but better

Posted 4 months ago #
granny_ring - Member

Except climb?

Posted 4 months ago #
chuckle1 - Member

I had the old ST4 and broke the frame...and I was pleased. It never seem to do what I need to do or good to ride compared to my previous Five. Orange were excellant and let me change the replacement frame for a five rather than an ST4. Costly mistake, but for general XC/Trail riding I don't think you can beat a Five. If you want a fast full suspension bike go for Giant Anthem instead....

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

Except climb?

I believe it does that as well if not better too

Posted 4 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

" I'd sooner have an Anthem X"

This, and in fact its what I did. Never understood the 5, just find it dull, uninvolving.

Looked at the ST4 and had a quick ride and was OK, but not in the same league as the Anthem

Posted 4 months ago #
colin27 - Member

Bargain

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

This, and in fact its what I did. Never understood the 5, just find it dull, uninvolving.

Looked at the ST4 and had a quick ride and was OK, but not in the same league as the Anthem

The Anthem is a totally different bike, pointless comparison or what.

Posted 4 months ago #
davidtaylforth - Member

The Anthem is a totally different bike, pointless comparison or what.

Toally different by the fact its lightning quick. The ST4 feels slow in comparsion.

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

I am on about the Anthem and Five.

The Anthem is a 100mm race bike, the Five is a 140mm trail/am bike.

Like I said, pointless comparison.

Posted 4 months ago #
Alex - Member

Still love my ST4. 2500ks and 18 months of ownership in. Two Pyrenees trips, lots of different UK riding. As I said before (probably up there ^^) it's not the lightest/fastest climber/best descender but as an all round bike for having fun on, it's great.

Yeah I broke the early one as well, but this one has been fantastically reliable. I've ridden two 5s in the last month (old one and brand new one) and they are awesome bikes, but I wouldn't swap.

Posted 4 months ago #
FunkyDunc - Member

Why is it a pointless comparison?

When I am riding around I see plenty of people riding 5's on the same trails I ride my Anthem. Are you saying that we should be on completely different trails?

In fact I have found that my Anthem is just as capable on the trails as the 5, but is just a lot faster on the flat and ups, and is more flicakble. Perhaps it doesnt decend quite as quick, but its certainly a more involving ride downhill.

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

My brother owned an Anthem so I know how they ride, I also own a Five (so does he now). You think what you like, it doesn't matter to me, but saying an Anthem is as capable as a Five is laughable.

Don't get me wrong I think the Anthem is an excellent bike, just in a different way.

Posted 4 months ago #
gamo - Member

Well i've broken an Anthem x and an St4 But not the Five which replaced the St4! Never wanted a Five but its actually turned out to be a great do it all bike.

Posted 4 months ago #
ransos - Member

My brother owned an Anthem so I know how they ride, I also own a Five (so does he now). You think what you like, it doesn't matter to me, but saying an Anthem is as capable as a Five is laughable.

If you re-read the posts, you'll see that people were comparing an Anthem X to an ST4. The Anthem is lighter, cheaper and has the same amount of travel. What qualities does the ST4 have that might make it better than the Anthem in other respects?

Posted 4 months ago #
skywalker - Member

If you re read the posts, you will see I was telling the OP not to bother with the ST$ and get a Five. I would have an Anthem over an ST4 though.

Posted 4 months ago #
ransos - Member

If you re read the posts, you will see I was telling the OP not to bother with the ST$ and get a Five. I would have an Anthem over an ST4 though.

In response to:

Looked at the ST4 and had a quick ride and was OK, but not in the same league as the Anthem

You said:

The Anthem is a totally different bike, pointless comparison or what.

In what way is it "totally different"?

Posted 4 months ago #
GaryLake - Member

What qualities does the ST4 have that might make it better than the Anthem in other respects?

ST4 isn't comparable to an Anthem as totally different geometry and build. An ST4 is closer to a Five than it is to an Anthem despite the travel differences. There's certainly stuff I'd bottle on an Anthem that'd I'd happily tackle on an ST4. There's not much I'd bottle on an ST4 that I'd still attempt on my Five (although tbf an '08 Pro so not as hardcore as more recent flavours).

I own a Five and had an ST4 (mk1) in on test for a fair old while. I felt the ST4 was the better handling and more fun bike on flowy trails, the Five is better on rocks, rougher stuff. ST4 is a better climber.

So for me:
Lakes, Peaks, Wild Scots trails = Five
Trail Centres/The South = ST4

All IMO of course.

Posted 4 months ago #
GaryLake - Member

In what way is it "totally different"?

71 deg head angle vs 68
100mm fork vs 120mm fork
100mm rear travel vs 110mm rear travel

To begin with...

Posted 4 months ago #
ransos - Member

Yeah but Gary, you're just an Orange fanboy.

Actually, I'm quite hapy with my mk1 Trance - I should think that's closer to an ST4 than an Anthem wrt to geometry and build...

Posted 4 months ago #
GaryLake - Member

Steve: I'm just saying, while the ST4 and Anthem aren't exactly apples and oranges, they're certainly like comparing Apples and Pears

Posted 4 months ago #
ransos - Member

71 deg head angle vs 68
100mm fork vs 120mm fork
100mm rear travel vs 110mm rear travel

To begin with...

IME, the first thing you do with a Giant FS is stick a longer travel fork on. Certainly the case with my NRS (100mm) and Trance (120mm)...

Posted 4 months ago #
ransos - Member

Steve: I'm just saying, while the ST4 and Anthem aren't exactly apples and oranges, they're certainly like comparing Apples and Pears

Joking apart, I'm quite interested in what the ST4's like. And you've told me it does the same job as my Trance, for twice the price.

Posted 4 months ago #
nmdbase - Member

I've had an Anthem, Trance X and a Five. They are all different bikes to ride.

Posted 4 months ago #
GaryLake - Member

Joking apart, I'm quite interested in what the ST4's like. And you've told me it does the same job as my Trance, for twice the price.

If the Trance turns out to be one of the finest handling short-travel, non-race bikes I've ridden then I'd probably agree with you... but given I've not ridden a Trance and you've not ridden an ST4, we can't answer that question

The ST4 isn't exactly light but doesn't the MK1 trance weigh like a million tons?

Posted 4 months ago #

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