This is all getting a bit heavy, let’s have another sing song…

What’s so great about him? Whining scouser…

Well, there’s “The Story of the Blues” and the fact that he’s not a whining Tory. That’s a good start.

Over to the great Pete Wylie…all sing along nicely now…

Get another quotation to finish the work from a reputable builder – don’t worry too much if it’s a fairly high price. Tell your current builder that he has, say, ten working days to finish the job and that if he fails to make proper progress during that time, you will get the other builder to finish the work and that he (the original builder) will be paid, as an absolute maximum, his original quotation less the cost of the second builder’s works. Put it in writing, and he’ll know you’re not mucking about.
Might be worth getting a formal contract in place if you have work done again in the future. I think the Federation of Master Builders have a standard one.

Hope you get sorted soon – seems to be putting a lot of stress on you. Good luck.

What a nice thread. People happy with their lot. As my wise old mum says, “better to want what you have, than to have what you want…”

This thread’s also a nice antidote to the reactionary right wing views in the numerous “rich/poor” debates, that everyone’s intrinsically jealous of the mega-rich. No we’re not!

Instead of giving money to the banks to balance their unscrupulous books, they should give it to small businesses and indviduals, particularly the less well-paid, to spend. Difficult to administer, granted, but that’ll do a hell of a lot more for the economy.

If we continue to subscribe, individually or collectively, to the notion that the sum of our worth is only as a participant in the vulgar neoliberal “free trade” market, then we’re rubber-ducked. Any party that will take us away from that has got to be worth a shot.

Zapatistas, anyone? Ya basta!

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety”

Benjamin Franklin, 1775

Nowt’s changed.

San Sebastian

I’d second that. And Bilbao’s a great city too. Region-wise, Cantabria, Galicia, everywhere I’ve been at the top end of Spain has been brilliant.

I’m half English, with no connections to Ireland, and would like Ireland to do well, but strangely (and I’m expecting stick for this…) couldn’t give a monkey’s toss how England get on. I’d be ambivalent too if it was Scotland or Northern Ireland, but would like Wales to do well if they were there. (Actually, I’m a little bit Welsh). I’ve no idea why I feel this way.

people simply do not realise that it can be construed as racist

I doubt that very much. They may not use it with racist intent, but they must be aware that in other contexts it’s a term of vile abuse. Like ernie says, a lot of people would say “**** shop” but would never say just “****”. So they know.

**** shop is used innocently by many

Innocently? Lazily.

I was just assuming you’d use the word chink as liberally as you do ****

You’re probably not too far off the mark. Most people who refer to “****” shops also get their tea in the “chinky”. I don’t buy that “it’s just a word” argument either, Eye. There are plenty of other words, so I can’t understand why people don’t find a different, better one, and use it.

I had a prolapsed disc years ago. Got so bad I couldn’t stand still for more than two minutes without intense sciatic pain. Had the scan, was offered an operation, but on hearing the potential damage that could be caused if the op went wrong, decided to grit my teeth and bear it. The problem started to recede after a year or so. Twelve years later, I still have the odd twinge of sciatica and very occasionally get dead toes when I loiter too long, but other than that I’m fine.

Catholics? Personal attack alarm then

No need – he’s twelve. Far too old to interest the priest.

Is it racist to object to racist east European migrants settling in the UK?

That’s one for Radio 4’s Moral Maze. Us plebs on here will never get to the bottom of that!

So why do we beat ourselves up about it?

Because it’s wrong? We have to make decisions about how we behave in society and to most people, racism needs to be outlawed. I don’t really think the rest of the world “carries on blithely”, but I’d agree that it isn’t maybe as high up the agenda as it is here. And some of those examples you quote may be politically based, rather than out and out racism.

as fiancé’s step mum is French and likes to pick fault in everything I do

Don’t pander to that. Get it wrong on purpose just to annoy her, or you’re in for a life of subjugation and misery.

They are not words which I have personally invented

I know. I’m asking how you interpret that phrase; do you find it acceptable or not? The zimboictionary says it’s a “no”.

Because it’s not just a case that people get pissed off as a result of being lectured by sanctimonious Guardian readers concerning what words they can use and what words they can’t use

A lot of the people I know who visit the “**** shop” also quite often refer to the “**** in the woodpile”. In a carefree, non-racist way of course (?). How does that figure in the lynchinctionary?

I just found it suprising how much negativity there is surrounding Euro cup. I would have thought that after John Terry’s scandal, BBC and British public would be less accusing towards others

I agree. I argued with a guy at work that that film could have been made in lots of countries. I mean, look at the BNP here. Those pr*cks don’t speak for England, as I’m sure the pr*cks in the BBC film don’t speak for Poland or the Ukraine. The hypocrisy is a bit sickening, particularly given the Terry affair. But let’s hope the Euros help in driving any latent or patent racism out of any country they’re held in.

I’m starting to think that either I live on another planet to some of the people on this thread, or they want to play silly bollox by pretending that they don’t understand commonsense

Has someone been swapping ernie’s Morning Star for the Daily Mail?

So, Junkyard, you knew a particular racial group is very offended when you insult their mum and used that insult against them

Understanding a culture is not racism. Believing in the superiority of your race over another is racism.

@zimbo, you went to Krakov and didn’t see any racism. Can I ask what colour your skin is?

I’m white, hence me having to say “see any” rather than “experience any”. I appreciate it may be hard to “see” signs of racism in a four day holiday, but I didn’t witness any abuse of the non-white people I saw there, and didn’t see racist grafitti (that I understood – I don’t speak Polish). My point was that I have no reason to believe that Polish society is innately any more racist than our own – I know next to nothing about Poland so couldn’t possibly conclude that it is. And I didn’t want Marcin to think that I was extrapolating comments about racism in football stadia to Poland as a whole. That would have been naive and ignorantly predjudiced of me.

Opps look whose bottled out? What is the difference in your words/behaviour and that of a racist?

Have you been eating too much cheese? WTF are you talking about? Your racist delusions are addling your brain, son.

Yes, isolated racist incidents happened. But they are not more common than anywhere else

Yeah sorry Marcin, I should have added to my post that I was in Krakow recently, and I saw no signs whatsoever of overt racism. I was referring only to the football-based racism, and I don’t for a minute imagine that’s representative of most fans, and certainly not of the general population of Poland. Apologies.

I might become religious, because I hate Ikea.

I will put you down as a don’t know so 2 for racist and one don’t know?

That’s two for “stupid question” and one for “stupid question, but let me explain…”

just like everyone has chosen to ignore this

Fish ain’t biting, eh?

So one for racist then.

I think that was one for “stupid question”. That’s two including me.

how many Bobs were there?

Ka-pow! Nice one Junks!

But still the English team and others have an obligation to confront such behaviour

I agree Stoats, and that’s probably all part of the learning and acceptance process.

“I’m popping down to the asian owned convenience store, do you want anything?”.

Bullsh*t ernie. What’s wrong with “shop”??

That’s probably because there is no racist intent

Maybe, maybe not. But it’s a racist word with a weight of prejudice behind it. I’m sure the Indian (as often as not)or Pakistani owner would probably object to the word, so why use it?

I think we can cut the Poles/Ukrainians etc. a tiny bit of slack

Should clarify, I don’t mean tolerate it, more understand where it’s coming from…

I think we can cut the Poles/Ukrainians etc. a tiny bit of slack. They’re societies in transformation, lurching from communism to capitalism in a very short space of time, so I don’t think we can expect that their societal norms are going to coincide with ours just yet. And they’re places that haven’t experienced high levels of immigration of non-whites as long ago as other places, so there’s a cultural ignorance in the mix too.
We’ve come so far in twenty five years (Anfield, late eighties, racist Everton fans throwing bananas at John Barnes. Same era, institutional racism in the police force.) so let’s hope they get that far, that fast. Hopefully we’re way beyond Nazi salutes in football stadia, but I know a lot of people who think nothing of using the words “**** shop” and “darky” and see nothing untoward in it. Granted, I’m not in Islington, but we too are still a long way from where we need to be.

I’m not a fan of the queen and I had a bloody brilliant weekend biking/camping in the highlands

You bloody republicans. Can’t you just do as you’re told, and admit you were mega grumpy?

I have sent countless emails( i have counted (78)

Well if there’s nowt happening in the bike trade, try comedy! I had a good old chuckle at that!

Good luck with your search…

Haven’t read the full thread, so not sure if anyone’s mentioned it, but wasn’t Guy Pearce a dead ringer for Harry Enfield in the “Old Gits” sketch..?

Thank you Zimbo

De nada, amigomio. The more people live away from their homeland, the more tolerant and wonderful the world gradually becomes…

Yep But one that will be paying my way and NOT Living off the Spanish tax payer !

Glad to hear it. Just make sure you don’t take any of your bloody English customs with you. And stay away from their jobs and their women.

In all seriousness, I hope they welcome you with open arms and appreciate what positive things you can bring to Spain.