Aand I went back to shimano resin pads, much better stopping power from the get go, less vibration and less noise. Only do max 6 min 6% descents here so overheating shouldn’t be a problem. Very cheap too so not a big problem that they wear out faster.

Kept my PB Swiss, gave away my Wera set. Wera had a clunkier holder and the keys are harder to remove, sleeves can also come loose. Note there are diff versions of the colored PB sets, here’s one:

Generally I find PB Swiss has the best hand tools..

Plastic rubbish.

Greg Egan, Permutation City.

How much quicker? 1% 10% 50% 100%? XTR Rotors are expensive + hard to get atm, and some have reported wearing them down in 6 months – depending on how(much) you ride ofc. In any case I’ll measure mine and see how fast they wear :)

Contamination if riding on wet roads is a huge problem with resin as diesel, oil etc gets on the pads and soaks into them. With sintered it’s much less of a problem. Forest muck however is usually not oily, so doesn’t tend to contaminate pads in the same way.

Other way arround. Sintered pads are harder, thus wear the rotors quicker.

Yes I’ve read this too, but never seen any data comparing wear rates. There are even anecdotal reports of sintered lasting longer, so I’d really like to see some evidence.

The problem with resin pads is that they don’t work in the wet/get contaminated. For pure dry riding resin is a more obvious choice with better initial bite (if they really do significantly increase rotor life.. as they certainly wear out faster). Then there’s semi metallic (resin) pads, I actually have a pair of Swissstop 34RS resin (good in dry, shyte in wet) and 34E semi-metallics (haven’t tried) pads for later.

I moved from Berlin to Norway and got some problems, replacing the centerline rotors was a good first step.

Maybe it’s a myth that resin wears harder on the rotor??

It’s a slightly pedantic point. All brake pad materials will fail if they get hot enough, but metallic pads will handle higher temperatures than organic pads. If the pads are overheated, they lose friction and you will lose braking power. You will still have a hard feel at the lever, but it will feel similar to having pads that are contaminated by oil. That’s the technical definition of brake fade.

My understanding is that sintered pad fade in practice doesn’t happen/is very limited and that the oil will boil before this happens? Hence the extra importance of ice-tech + freeza rotors + fins with sintered pads.

Thols: Thanks yes think I’m OK, fluid seems to have been forced out under the diagraph/seal (which you can’t buy so puncture it and you need another shifter – read one case where it was punctured in which case bleeding didn’t fix the brakes :S).

Brake fade in the true sense is caused by the pads overheating, not by the fluid boiling.

Isn’t that dependent on pad material? I hear resin pads can overheat and lose power, whereas sintered pads (which I run) generally don’t, but put more heat into the caliper/mineral oil. Dirt/crud particles in the oil, and possibly non OEM oil according to Shimano “all mineral oil is not made equal”, could lower boiling point from what I’ve read, but haven’t seen a proper explanation. In any case running 160 mm MT900 rotors with ice-tech and freeza + OEM oil + sintered finned Shimano pads so should be fine now, just hope they don’t eat my precious rotors too fast.

@akira: R7000 doesn’t have free throw, but you can emulate it by moving the pads closer together without the wheel installed (at your own risk – make sure the pistons don’t pop out). I hear bleeding the R8000s with the free throw set to max can let you move the bite point in, otherwise it only lets you increase it from a default setting.

This just happened to me, in fact I made another thread about it before I saw this one: https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mineral-oil-shot-out-my-road-shifter-bad-and-how-to-reduce-throw-on-105/#post-11894562

Brake worked fine after a rebleed, a bit more oil leaked out but judging from your exp I should be fine.

Aand someone else managed to do the same thing, looks like I’ll be fine: https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ultegra-shifter-leaking-after-pushing-pistons-back-fixable/

YoHandsome off this forum did some experimenting recently and seemed to confirm that Shimano sintered were still a bit quieter in wet conditions that the equivalent organic pad. I just figured it was worth a shot.

…

My personal experience is that all sintered pads are noisy unless they got some proper temperature. Especially noisy in filthy conditions.

Haha, stumbled across this thread. My sintered Shimano L04C with 105 R7000 calipers and Shimano rotors (currently MT900) are quiet in the dry and quieter in the wet as they seem to burn off road grime rather than absorb it and get thoroughly contaminated like resin pads often do – you get an initial squeal that dies down quickly.

My main gripe with resin is performance in the wet and susceptibility to contamination, if I only rode in dry conditions I’d probably use L03C resin pads. My concern with sintered pads is rotor wear, hear some chew through a set of MT900s in 6 months. On the flip side, resin pads wear out faster so maybe it’s a net 0 sum game.

Semi interestingly, it seems like the XTR/Saint RT99 rotors may be the very best design Shimano has made in terms of cooling power, but they’re ugly and they went for a sleeker cooling fin “freeza” design for their MT800 and 900 series – but It looks like it not as good as the RT99 design which also adds another spider arm for the 160 mm rotor.

I’ll get 160 mm MT900 front and back with finned sintered pads, rebleed with shimano mineral oil and call it a day – should be adequate and poss allow for better cooling than a Hope setup. To tease out a few percent more performance for a lot of money GRX levers should offer a bit more leverage.

RT-70 is a world better than SRAM XR centerlines, no noise, no fade, better power.

Turns out MT900s are sold out everywhere, MT800 is cheaper and whiter, exactly the same rotor it seems and a bit more avail. For now went back to my 105 RT-70 160 mm rotors front and back, and will rebleed with shimano mineral oil plus get finned pads for the front..

..At a certain weight and incline you also don’t have any option but to drag your brakes unless you want to hit 110 kph and die where the end of the hill abruptly ends in a 90 degree turn lol.

Decided to go with Shimano MT900 rotors, finned pads in front for the whole ice tech experience and rebleed with OEM shimano mineral oil as i suspect the one i have might be dirty lowering its boiling point. Have a real problem with front brake fade then howls on even short 2 min 15% descents..

I’ve managed to induce fade a few times on road disc brake setups, can’t remember doing it on the mtb.

Exactly this.

Ha-ha. Maybe if I do this.

more power? it’s a road bike with skinny tyres. you have plenty of power, your issue is traction.

That’s A issue, but the issue here is somewhat underpowered brakes during long descents when the rotors heat up, made worse by having an aggressive setup not well suited for being in the drops going downhill, so I tend to stay on the hoods. A stronger brake would make such descents more fun and controlled.

I’d be more worried about whether the fork is rated for a 180mm rotor.! Aren’t most road forks only rated to take up to 160mm.?

I’d guess so, but with 25mm tires I figure you’re so limited by traction that it won’t be a problem? I’d be more worried with 30mm +

Pretty sure you can only run 180mm if your fork is natively 160mm.

My fork lets me switch between 140 and 160 mm, my understanding is that the RX4+ +20 mm version will turn that into 160 or 180 mm.

More usefully, a mate of mine who’s heavy but by no means huge, trashed the EVA in a pair of Hoka One One shoes in a couple of weeks to the point where they were kind of bottoming under his heels. To be fair he got a full refund, but it’s not confidence inspiring for heavier runners. They also use two grades of foam, standard EVA in most shoes, albeit around a third softer than most brands in most shoes and a tougher, more resilient compound called RMAT in a few models.

Seems Hokas are better suited for lighter/gentler runners, esp older people seem to love them and ive read that some people with knee injuries do well in them.

You wear 20kg in a vest?

Just for some lunges/stairs/uphill HIIT, not for long runs or anything.

Ended up ordering the Peregrine 11 GTX, see how they fit, will also do some uphill stuff with a vest and hit 110 kg so hokas dont seem like the best choice. Do run front to mid foot however.

Better start saving up for RX4+ 180mm front 160mm rear with hope rotors and GRX levers then..

Seems like the RX4+ can be used with up to 180 mm discs btw, availability is not great however.

Have you tried some different pads? I haven’t been desperately impressed by shimano pads lately…

I have tried various organics incl swisstop and shimano, but I find that they all suck more than sintered in the wet and make a lot more noise too.

You should be using the drops when descending ‘properly’ so that you are holding onto the handlebars properly and also able to use the brake levers to get more power etc. If you are not doing this first, I would suggest trying this before spending money.

Indeed, it’s partially a setup issue, will raise the stem a bit to make that position more comfortable – I’m set up for time trialing on flat roads.

Have a couple of 105 160 mm rotors I can try also (the SRAM XR screams like a banshee in the front regardless of pad material..something about its resonant frequency on my forks i reckon)

My RX4s aren’t notably more powerful than my Dura Ace 9170s. The GRX levers make more difference -they have better power from the hoods.

Ooh didn’t know about those levers and yes more power from the hoods is what I want the most, bit expensive though but you think they’re more cost effective than changing the calipers?

Yes, they are awesome.
I’m using them on my Gravel/road bike with basic Shimano rotors – they are well worth it in my opinion – and haul my 100kg to a pretty quick stop.

So more powerful than stock calipers?

Grip on hard surfaces is good as the vibram mega grip is noticeably sticky. The cushioning is amazing, being significantly softer and springier than Saucony padding. The other benefit is the rocker that helps propel you forward, making my first runs in them faster than my previous Saucony switchbacks. The only drawback is the fit, which is slightly tight around the forefoot which is not something I’ve experienced with a wide range of Saucony shoes.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting, my concern w hoka would be if it loses its spring as the light foam degrades. How does it work with mid foot striking? Or do you just switch to heel strike with them? :)

I wonder if theyre better for your joints or not, not concerned with max speed.

loum: good point!

For what it’s worth though, my Inov8’s have hundreds on miles on them across a range of surfaces and while they are pretty well worn down now they’ve hardly disintegrated despite being the weight weenie of trail shoes.

Good to know, may get a pure trail running shoe later (albeit VJ Irock 3 seems to be the one to beat there!). Ufortunately no gtx with inov-8 afaik.

Bad in what way?

Speedgoats have somewhat sharp widely spaced 6 mm lugs, that don’t give them the most surface area for good grip on harder surfaces but are brilliant in looser conditions such as mud from what I gather. That said I haven’t tried them.

I haven’t had Saucony for quite a while – generally OK, but a bit uninspiring

I wouldn’t discount La Sportiva Ultra Raptors – tempted to try some myself.

Saucony’s latest shoes such as the Xodus 10/11 and Peregrine 11 have gotten very rave reviews over at Road Trail Run, perhaps they’ve improved.

The Ultra Raports have La Sportiva’s stickiest rubber so I’d be concerned about durability, I don’t need THAT much performance. The Jackal GTX would be the closest comparison to the ones I listed.

Now trying to find an alternative trail running goretex shoe that fits very wide feet

Read that Mizuno Daichi 6 GTX has a very wide toe box :)

Mostly on trails (sometimes muddy, wet or snowy) and gravel, not much rocks or mud.

Goretex is nice for walks and hiking in the rain/snow, and for short runs in said conditions. Also adds some insulation in winter.

Speedgoat is allegedly quite bad on gravel and road, best in mud it seems. Their Wildcross GTX looks like a better speedgoat btw. Hoka seems good if you can afford to buy new ones..

Shimmed the thru axle adapter on the drive side and it worked perfectly. Better chain line, less noise, same indexing as road bike.

is it an older trainer ? Sounds like it’s not an 11sp freehub – they used to be shoter, didn’t they ?

This is a brand new one made for 11 speed cassettes without shimming.

The poor shifting should be addressable by re indexing your mech though? Or is this a concern with a 1mm variance in chain line?

Shimming the thru axle end will simply push your dropouts wide by 1mm, this will “fix” the chain line I guess.

I take the bike out of the trainer a lot and onto the road, don’t want to reindex every time. Not a huge problem but annoying, shimming the thru axle adapter should offer an easy and elegant solution.

What I wonder is why the heck did Elite do 45 mm spacing when the standard is 46 mm?

Thanks for your insightful suggestion. Running 11 speed, cassettes are the same.