At that kind of money listen to your heart (looks gorgeous, Italian eg Infinito) and not your head (Ribble with pimp spec).

That said, the Cannondale does a reasonable job of satisfying both, and Cannondale do a good job of not being Trekalized etc. The only bummer is it was bike of the year in Cycling Plus, which is a bit like trying to get excited about What Car’s best family saloon.

Another vote for the 905

As a converting roady I like the lightweight and stiffness and the moderately chilled geometry is very helpful on steeper rooty descents

If you’ve got an Orange Five then you can set it up light and fast and really enjoy it

the interweb wisley jam vids from the last 3 or 4 years seem swear free and my daughter (7) absolutely loves them

those pesky (talented ballsy) kids in their skinny jeans are crazeeee

EDIT here http://www.pinkbike.com/video/153125/ if you dont want to ride a bike after watching that then you are dead

I’m not going to get into a Shim vs Campag debate as I run both and can see the strengths and weaknesses of each objectively.

This is more a point of principle – even if your Wilier is a modern one ‘assembled in Italy’ it nevertheless is an Italian bike and therefore must have Campag.

It’s the law.

All the posters here who have nice sexy racy Wiliers with Shim on feel dirty – and deep down they know it 😈

(EDIT those Dura-Ace wheels would be acceptable with the right cassette)

Hmm, cheers for your opinions, plenty to think about

I was thinking about making some improvements to some of our local cheeky obstacles and at that point I think hypocrisy would be a fair call, even though I buy the change from within argument totally.

Has the makings of a great article for page 15 of the local rag or an Archers sub-plot: ‘parish councillor in illegal trail-building shock’

PS Parish Councils are about local admin, not God bothering.

Once you can do it I’d suggest making one of the sessions above 1×30 then build from there to 3×20 once you fancy trying some 25s

If the top speeds were ~ 24 then both riders did pretty well, it helps to have a look in the back of the comic or at the course record to get a sense of what is doable on your local courses and if Huthinson, M beats you by 10 minutes don’t worry about it

To get your power up it has to be steep hills as there is no hiding. Power intervals on the flat are too easy to back off on. Steep hills on MTB you can granny or may get too technical so it is more about skill than power

Trail_rat I’ve got a similar bet on great to know it’s doable 🙂

The whole article is written from the pov that the 20th century landscape is an entirely natural creation. A very predictable beeboid pov.

The idea in the comments that the woods of the Surrey Hills are a natural environment when they are a working forest/extension of Vaughan Williams garden shows how modern man really does think he is the be all and end all. Those pine trees growing in neat lines and rhododendrons are certainly part of the ancient woodland.

If people want a return to how things were let’s rerelease wolves, lynx, bears and maternal wild boar to the hills . That will liven up the dog walking!!

If people spend more time in the country then it is less likely to be bulldozed, concreted or generally shat on by the Man.

Which of course excludes Lady Bray 🙂

If the best time was 24 something then that doesnt sound like a particulary fast course so well done for doing less than 30

Stevenh – I did 24:12 on my first go aged 42 😛 – maybe beating it first go is a bit hard – second then (23:48)

The post above is utter balls. Even by the low standards of road bike advice on here.

If you want an Italian bike, get an Italian bike, or you will be disapponted that you bought mass market tat.

Campag is a much better bet than Shimano in the long run as it needs far less maintenance.

But… Wiliers have been down specced, frames are still great and finish is lovely, but make sure you get one with an UltraTorque bottom bracket as it is just so much better than the cheapo/Shim.

My bet on why lots of them are getting sold is the front end is a bit low and racy for Sportive riders who should be on Specialized Roubaix bathchairs and not allowed to taint Italian bikes with their lardy backsides and poor road manners.

“I think thats bit harsh! if its your first time aim to do sub 30 (you should do If you have pretty much any fitness) and build from there. My first one was last year. I did a 28.40 odd.”

No it isnt.

He asked what’s ‘a good time’. And got a good answer.

For a beginner I suggest beating 24 minutes or if over 40 beating your std time is a good effort.

That’s if you try hard enough – ie actually ride at your true threshhold for the first half, then 90% on the second half and balls (or equiv) out for the last mile.

My tip – get someone who is doing decent times eg less than 23 minutes to ride you at race pace on a course you can practice on. My guess is you will be surprised how harder the effort is than you thought, rather than how much power they put out…

I can only imagine what that drop looks like when you are rolling up to the edge of the ladder. Like you are about to head off into space. Respect.

coffeeking – dont you think telling someone to ‘MTFU’ then saying ‘But I wouldnt do that’ in a subsequent post isnt totally helpful?

Contrast that with the guy who offered to show him the drop and help out?

just sayin

OP I can do stuff like that with someone to follow and help with speed management a backside to look at rather than the drop (so keep your head up without having to think too hard) – but when you’re on own, trial and error is just too risky, especially if you’ve got responsibilities, self employed and so on. So even though I know I can do them I still find it very very hard. I would hook up with the rider who offerred to help.

If this is your first bike go for the lightest wheels you can afford rather than the most aero.

You are unlikely to be fast enough to get the full benefit of aero wheels (ie > 40kmh) but you will definitely feel the weight going uphill. And they can be a pain in the arse for fettling or if you break a spoke.

I have a good idea of the OP’s target – they dont do proper racing, they dont look like they’re having fun, and they cant read a map, else they would do audax or randonnee/reliability rides.

They are a recent addition to the family of biking tribes – I reckon they are the MTBers noone wanted to ride with 🙂

Being relatively new to MTB and Surrey Hills rider I don’t quite understand ‘overbiked’ presumably the riders who avoid the tricky bits would do it on any bike? As it all seems doable on any decent bike if youve got the skills and bottle?

That said, some of the more creative stuff on Pitch is more than I would try even if I had a free Bottlerocket and platinum health insurance

Aha simondbarnes works for bikeshak

Worth knowing – Simon – did you get the pix of Scotty in his mother in laws bikini?

I can send them if not…

68 degree head angle give or take. He said definitively without being in any way certain.

My Whyte 905 has that with 120mm rebas. Sounds like what you are after.

All the other bikes in that UK trail hardtail category seem to be about the same – but you can get much slacker eg the OnOne Summer Seasons look way more aggro than some of my mates FS bikes.

I am still quite new to MTB and haven’t quite got my head round geometry vs suspension in terms of how much aggro a bike can take. Starting to think going down steep stuff must be more to do with head angle than anything else?

I’m not involved but I know there are some difficult trails running from BexleyHill into the woods – didn’t have the signs last time I was up there. Was a couple of years ago though.

Bit too much for me tbh and a rider I go out with occasionally who is much better than me had a big stack there.

(BexleyHill on the road ridden from the N (Lickfold) side is IMO the hardest road climb in W Sussex and Surrey. I find it noticeably more steep at the end than Barhatch Lane (Winterfold Hill) – this suggests DH madness for those with the necessary skills and bottle)

I have Mavic roady shoes and they are like slippers for comfort but somehow still stiff as.

And they are very pimp.

Quite narrow though, I am a 9 in them but usually a 8 or even 7 in normal shoes.

If they are like any other euro bike clothing co this sizing adjustment will be consistent across their range.

Depends where you live really. When we lived in London it could be so long between drives that i would genuinely forget where the fecker was parked.

Now we’re out in the sticks, the missus would find it very hard to do without. I could probably just about manage it, but would be knackered the whole time.

it’s totally brilliant that. While being respecful to MTB.

Since I read it I always check #37 when I meet another roady. It is the real divide between ‘is’ and ‘is not’ – much more than leg-shaving.

(the reason is if you are a pro, then it is easy to take your glasses off when interviewed after winning, alledgedly)

julians – Member

“… but theres a lot of self righteous pompus balls spouted on it a lot of the time.”

you’re not wrong

“A lot of people on here need to learn some tolerance towards others choices. “

If they are like they are on here in real life then yes, but I think mostly they aren’t.

It’s the Interwebs – rejoice in the opportunity for middle-aged extreme sportists to spout amusing drivel with little or no real consequence. Especially when they can also help you service your hub or find a new trail.

eat banana, drink water?

I live on the Weald so the cats and dog are always getting them and you do find the little feckers jumping ship and trying to move home from time to time. I think we buy some inoculation from the vet for the pets which kills the ticks when they bite. Not sure I’d want to take it. (Although the detail of that is Mrs Winterfold’s department so I might be completely wrong, the vet is hot and she wears very low cut tops so it all goes over my head. Our pets get sick a lot.)

I did wonder if the one that bit my bro was more likely to have been picked up by his dog then moved home.

schnullelieber – I’m intrigued as to the meaning of your handle, although reticent at the same time 😉

Horseflies are reet little shits Carlos – after youve been bitten a few times you get to recognise the bite before they inject you and can swat them off.

Tricky on a bike though 🙂

I think I will get a tick tweezer and then hopefully have the same experience as schnullelieber (it will be a miracle if I spelt that right).

Now I have adapted to the different lines and commitment needed with my faster summer tyres I am similarly joyous (only been doing this since Nov).

i had some coaching on my local trails recently. “As these trails dry out, you’ll need to change your lines” she said. I wasnt sure what she meant at the time, but as I picked myself up out of the ditch and wiped the blood from my nose last Weds night after chronic understeer I got it.

Thanks to jedi I know that is because I am kinaesthetic (?), words mean nothing, learning has to be felt, which means crashes…

Definitely makes roots a lot more fun.

iainc – I have not had a problem with the zeros in my hydration pack yet. They are not like eg berocca for artificial colour (and flouro wee).

The tonic water thing makes sense as I am instinctively drawn to it when chronically hungover – I guess it would go flat pdq when you are riding.

OP – I hope your mates alright – and if he’s feeling glum cos of his accident – show him this thread – hilarious 🙂

I drive 30 miles on my commute, then I bike into central London – except on the days when I bike to Guildford then get the train. I am confused about how benevolent/evil I am.

hh45 I cant say I agree about horsists – they seem quite friendly to me, and 90% of the time round my way they are fit young women – so whats not to like?

The smaller your neighborhood gets the more likely people will say hello – in a village nearly everyone will – in London hardly anyone.

This is probably as much to do with practicality as anything else.

TJ if that could be fond securely then it’s prob nodifferent to car seat or copilot etc

Is that the case in most of these examples though?

I am happy to concede the point that you could make a trailer that could go down a blue run as safely as putting the sprog in a car seat.

I just wouldn’t do it myself with a baby – as a previous poster said – its only a few months – and the missus ain’t going anywhere so leave her to it…

<gets coat>

I agree with both posters above – ride for 3 hours or less and you should be fine if you are reasonably fit and don’t spend the whole 3 hours riding up a steep hill. And it’s all do much more fun and less complicated if you don’t have to worry about cramps/nutrition

High 5 zero (or similar) or more bananas on rides that long.

Cramp is often due to loss of minerals – especially sodium and potassium – potassium helps you ‘man up’ so drink some electrolytes. Or eat more bananas as they are good for potassium – biodegradable wrapper, easy to eat, loads of carbs, stop cramps and help out the old chap – what’s not to like?

High 5 berries/ fruits but for me they are ‘imminent bonk’ only as they just seem so artificial – they do work though and pdq.

The Zipvit jelly baby things are as tasty as a real jelly baby and backed up by 100% pseudo-science so clearly much better – also they need to be kept locked away from the sprog which must be a good sign in some way

With gels watch you don’t cut your Tongue on the torn edge and pls dont leave the empty wrappers lying around Surrey Hills which you would think was obvious but it would seem not…

Doubt it’s people who login here though…

TJ – you must be thinking of something quite different to the trailer I had. It had no neck support whatsoever.

Happy to be proven wrong if someone is making a trailer with sufficient neck support – anyone got a link? (or has put a decent baby seat in a trailer and fixed it in v strong )

Just to reiterate I do think the natural risk taking of kidd should be encouraged. Once they can ride take them on trails, see if they want to do drops etc as soon as you think they can – but IMO they should assess risk and make their own choices – once they can ride without stabilisers they can make the call.

But… Each to their own 🙂

Some funny replies 🙂

Most riders of whatever kind say hello – obviously it’s a pain in the arse if you’re commuting in London – but otherwise most peeps do – if they don’t – maybe they just got divorced or had a shitty day – or they may just be miserable – so what takes all sorts?

(Remember roadies say hello in barely perceptible ways)

If their head can’t support a helmet how the **** can the neck of a baby that cannot support it’s head sitting down support its head going round a berm on even a blue trail?

Like I said, kids today are fussed over too much, but some of what is being posted here is ridiculous.

Unless everyone is trolling rather than just the obvious ones…

Generally – I am supportive of the idea that we wrap kids up in cotton wool too much these days – but I do wonder where the balance of risk lies in some of these pics and stories?

No doubt it is far more dangerous in terms of numbers of accidents to use a CoPilot in traffic in London – like I did often – but presumably you all get off for drops etc?

Personally I think those trailers are unsuitable for a sprog that cannot support its own head, regardless of where you ride them – even on a pancake flat road with no traffic.

(I can also see some element of bragging rights coming into this, so if I see someone taking a trailer down double-headed dog I know who to blame…)

Well amazing and i never thought I would see the day – but I have to congratulate ‘TandemJeremy’ on being an even bigger online bell end than ‘GRF’ – respect Sir

Your back is nice and flat so drop your bars a bit (onto top of headtube) if you can – else get some clipons with a low rise and you will be faster. Aero bars also support you’d weight better so you can take the pain and suffering better – IMO you will progress quite quickly if you work out how to take the pain. You look fit and in good shape have a decent position for your first go so take the pain 🙂

Bottle cage on downtube is ok – with a bottle in it – it means less air can go through the main frame triangle and is a smidge more aero

If people dong believe that I will be able to google academic study which backs it up – drinking from it is a different matter

DJB go to bikeshak in Alty and they will help you out

Ononeorange – dont make the mistake of thinking the mental age of posters on ‘extreme sport’s Interwebs is any way an indicator of their real age

Doing MTB or anything like it in middle- age is a way of staying in touch with your inner child – so totally healthy and brilliant – but it also means that inner child will surface in the free environment online OMG Whatevs etc