You’re the one boasting about how much you earn and how much leave you get. Don’t get why you’re still so bitter though.

That was in response to an arrogant, sarcastic remark from a teacher, when I initially mention the crappy education I had received.

That survey is ridiculous. So a survey commissioned by your employer, to find out how many hours you work, so this can be addressed, by either making your job easier or pay you more money. There is no audit or cross check to your response and I would guess it was anonymous. So are you going to make sure you get the message across by probably putting the hours for a “one off” week as if it was normal?

FWIW my friend reckons she works about 50 hours a week on average.

That’s not a lot for a professional person. Considering a lot of that will include the extra curricula stuff, sport, plays etc. Not exactly graft is it? Add in the generous leave and it’s not too bad at all.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

That survey data is collected by asking them what they worked. There is no actual checking. Even in the article it says that the ones who had worked the most hours would be more likely to respond.

Now that has to be flawed! If you are one of the hard core bleaters then you could easily exaggerate your hours.

So thanks for this, made my day… (alongside Winston Dog’s claiming to earn twice what a head teacher does (200k+ then) with 20 weeks off a year when he left school with no qualifications)

I corrected myself on this. Assumed heads were on about 50k, thinking more head of dept really.

£100k a year and 16 weeks leave. Left school at 16 with 1 O level and 2 CSE’s.

Another arrogant bleating teacher.

I will apologise for my bitterness but as I said earlier I had some terrible teachers. No attempt at career guidance, no attempt to engage with me.

Now if you knew a “lively” 11 yr old, not perfect but not a “bad’un”, that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

I’m assuming this has been mentioned already but wasn’t there a study out recently saying primary teachers work 60 hours a week on average? I’d call that working your arse off personally and if you don’t maybe you just have a crap job?

I frequently work more than 60 hours a week so my job must be crap! :-)

I find that 60hr average very hard to believe. If that’s the average then there must be a lot working far in excess of that. Link to the study?

But if you think ofsted is apolitical you are either very uninformed, hoplessly nieve or just daft.

Possibly all 3.

Serious question – Does the executive component of OFSTED completely change when the government changes? Wasn’t it created by Labour?

work less then them.

No. I have more annual leave than them. Not quite the same.

Besides I’m not bleating or am I employed by the state.

As a UK citizen I reserve my right to criticise our public servants.

in response to Ofsted.

Ofsted is the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills. We report directly to Parliament and we are independent and impartial. We inspect and regulate services which care for children and young people, and those providing education and skills for learners of all ages.

So it’s apolitical.

Also maybe your salary and number of weeks of holiday a year?

I mention that in my semi-rant about the crap teachers I experienced.

All the teachers I know work their arses off and most are considering quitting because of all the nonsense they have to put up with.

Working your arse off is very subjective isn’t it?
Quitting because someone is trying to measure their effectiveness in their job?

winston, have you told us what your job is in the thread?

No. It’s not really relevant.

Thats the thing though isnt it the vast majority of teachers want a better education system so that kids get better education and what many mistake for moaning about their job is actually moaning about the education of kids being held back or hindered by the latest government ruse.

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn’t want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

Also, it isn’t the politicians that create and implement new systems and procedures. These are created by teaching professionals surely?

If it’s a case of being asked to do more for less or the same money, that’s not unique to teaching.

He doesnt say why its harder but the question of hours is clear. But that doesnt support you view of moaning teachers who have an easy life.

If it is clear then is he saying he is working more or less hours as a teacher?

I don’t think teachers have an easy life. Far from it. I would imagine it is difficult. However, and this goes for any profession, if it’s shit then stop moaning and change your employer. In this life we are all volunteers and you spend too much of your time at work to be unhappy while you are there.

The problem with paperwork and metrics is present in every profession. It’s the modern world, deal with it. There are more regulations and standards in every sector, ISO, H&S requirements, justification for expenditure, expense audits, mandatory certification etc.
I have to deal with all stuff like that in my job and the vast majority of it doesn’t help it simply complicates things. However it’s unavoidable.

Public sector workers as a whole, rightly or wrongly, have a reputation for “bleating” in the media, hence the OP.

you seriously find this hard to understand?

Yes. I am uncertain of the exact meaning of the sentence as there was no further explanation in the post of why the work is “harder”, which is a very subjective statement.

evidence to support your world view

Not understanding what you mean by this either?

If you mean that in my experience I encountered a lot of very poor teachers, who really didn’t give a **** about the children, then how will feigning stupidity help with this?

The vast majority of teachers have secure, well paid, public sector, pensioned jobs, with far more leave than most. The overall package appears good but all you ever hear from them, is how bad everything is. If it’s so crap then get out and do something else.

it just says compared to being a coder teaching is harder.

As he is talking about the coding job in the context of number of hours he worked, then states teaching is harder, it is unclear if it means by the hours worked or by the nature of the work done.

AFAIK coding requires a lot of problem solving and mathematical skill, so on an intellectual level you could argue that this would be more difficult than the communication skill that is primary skill of an effective teacher.

There’s no need to thank me for clearing that up for you mate!

I think you need to brush up on your teaching skills as you have failed to clear that one up for me. I am a bit ignorant mind, as you indicated earlier, so may have an excuse mate!

rugby may be a thugs game, but football is played and followed by plebs. just look at wrightyson’s vidoe post of the Sky commentators… clear, well thought out prose flowing from their mouths. not.

That is very true. The vast majority of players and supporters are common people and not members of the Royalty. I would imagine the same is true of rugby.

I can’t think of any sport where the plebs are in the minority? Possibly polo? As not being a commoner yourself perhaps you could tell us where you and the other Royals have there fun away from us.

mid 17th century: originally as plural plebs, from Latin plebs ‘the common people’. Later a shortened form of plebeian.

Oh right its only the quantity thats wrong then – silly me i thought you just got the symbol wrong.

I’m not talking about teachers salaries, I’m on about my own industry.

100k what ?central african francs ?

GBP – The clue was the “£” symbol.

Seems clear to me.

Please enlighten those of us that don’t have your scintillating teachers intellect.

The 18 hour days were relating to a coding job, not teaching if I read the related post correctly.

I’m a teacher and before that i worked as a coder pushing 18 hour days and teaching is the hardest thing i have ever done.

It’s a bit ambiguous, not sure if it means he’s doing more than 18 hrs a day or that he’s doing less hours but they are harder?

similar to Winston. great infants and primary teachers, but secondary schooling was a joke, teachers more interested in their lunchtime pint than pupils plus a bit of sadistic P.E. abuse (15 stone teachers stepping on and off 13year old boys stomachs while they lay on the gym floor), luckily i had 2 fantastic tutors in higher education

Mr Smith I think you went to the same schools as me!

But could you do what I do? Judging by the rhetoric in your posts, probably not.

Surely it’s more a question of wanting to? If I wanted to and was trained correctly then yes. Same applies to my job and yourself. At the moment you couldn’t possibly but with several years training and some years of experience of course you could, if you were motivated enough.

I want Winston’s job – £150k pa and 13 weeks holiday a year.

Looks like I over estimated what teachers get paid. Closer to £100k Gross and 16 weeks holiday a year. However, I know plenty of people who earn £70 – £100k NET with 26 weeks leave a year.

I still stand by the statement that no competent teacher works 18 hours a day. Anyone who believes that has never worked long hours themselves.

Winston – who taught you to gain all the qualifications you have?

Wasn’t a teacher was it?

More “lecturer” than teacher.

Luckily for me I get taught by a gifted and brilliant guy for my maths and physics when I was about 23. The difference was in that environment they didn’t have any effect on your life as such. Not in the bullying way my earlier teachers had.

I have 2 sisters who were teachers, a SiL and 2 of my nieces teach. I hope they do a better job than the useless shower I had.

You may of guessed, I am just little bit bitter about my school.

winston_dog – genuinely not looking to pick a fight here but did you ‘mature’ i.e. gain focus, responsibility, desire etc after school rather than whilst you were there?

Of course.

However, any focus and responsibility was basically knocked out of me at school. It’s only when you look back that you realise how badly the school let me and loads of others down.

I was lucky but I know loads of others who weren’t.

We’re not talking some inner city sink estate either. Just a comp in a provincial town.

The violence wasn’t too good either. My mate had a finger broken when we got caned for nothing. I was lucky got away with deep brusing that lasted for weeks.

my god you must be a wonderful person

I am mate!

that explains a lot

Does it?

I take it your the typical arrogant bell end of a teacher then? Fail to recognise any talent that is slightly different from your limited imagination?

I basically left school at 16 with nothing, I am now professionally qualified to equivalent of degree level and have numerous other qualifications to support my primary profession.

I work in a very specialist area of my industry, for one of the World leaders in that sector and probably earn twice what a head teacher does and here’s the rub, I actually get more time off!

I have very little respect for the teaching profession.

There are arseholes in every profession.

However, to be a professional sportsman you need to be particularly driven and generally have massive self belief. When you add in the money and the circus of the EPL, tends to produce massive egos and attitudes. This is going to distort reality just a bit.

Anyone who would suggest to their children that these people are “role models” needs to give their head a shake.

An 18hr working day would mean about 4 – 5 hrs sleep every night.

18hr work
At least 30 mins a day commuting.
Shower etc 30 mins.
Eating 30 mins.
Other stuff 30 mins.
Sleep 4 hrs.

Not realistic is it?

All this shite about working 18hr days!

If you ever really have worked 18hr days you would realise it’s almost impossible to sustain for any length of time. If teacher needs to work 18hr a day then they must be doing something wrong.

The teaching profession must of changed since the 70’s and 80’s, the majority of teachers I knew were pretty lazy, disinterested, chain smoking arseholes. With a few psychopaths thrown in for good measure. The good ones were very much in the minority.

We went over there over crimbo and caught my mum smoking in the kitchen with the buffet laid out!!!

Oh no! Won’t someone think of the sausage rolls!

What is the smoke going to do to the food?

I think you must have more issues with your parents than just the smoking.

Good luck!

Choosing this stuff is a nightmare.

The price difference between very similar looking stuff is amazing. You are never sure if you are buying absolute junk or getting ripped off.

I was recommended to stick to branded stuff but not the stupid high end ranges which were a rip off.

I picked up stuff from a few different places. If I found stuff on line that appeared to be cheaper compared to Wickes and similar, I would check it out in the store to see what is like then buy it on line. Naughty I know but the difference could easily be 40%.

I got a branded shower enclosure off ebay for about a third of the price of what some places were selling it for.

I ended up getting the toilet and sink from a local merchant who were having a promotion on Armitage Shanks stuff and it was as cheap as anyone on line.

I think all these things will be up for negotiation

Ben – At the heart of the EU is the Treaty of Lisbon that has been, discussed, negotiated and argued over for several years before finally being ratified.

From the EU website –

Treaties are amended to make the EU more efficient and transparent, to prepare for new member countries and to introduce new areas of cooperation – such as the single currency.

Now a new member will be a major amendment to that and will be take time. So there will be a delay of at least a year or 2, probably longer for this amendment to be agreed.

I dont like soaps _ i am impressed at my ability to have heard hours of this and not have a clue who anyone is.

Why open the post after reading the title and then actually post?

I reckon there will be a few twists regarding the Rob story, although I think he will turn out to be evil!

Step three on trolling is you deny you are a troll in as rude a manner as possible…….can you resist replying…I doubt it

Of course I can’t resist replying.

No I am not a troll, can’t see why you would think it.

Your posts now make you one of 2 things :

1) You are, as I said earlier, a liar and a internet warrior

or

2)The sort of sanctimonious little prick who thinks he can approach complete strangers and correct them on their behaviour, as it offends you for some reason and is a completely imagined health threat to their children.

Imagine weeing – i dont care where you do it but if you do it too near to me I will say something.

What has that got to do with smoking a cigarette outside?

Is the reply rude enough for you?

Given the very well known damage caused by passive smoking it’s pretty anti-social behaviour…

I don’t quite get the “mind your own business” angle – the guy’s basically waving poison around and making other people breath it in. That kind of is everyone else’s business

Passive smoking in the open, moving air, are you serious? How is anyone going to inhale any significant quantity, if any, of smoke and posion in that environment.

Should we be banning charcoal BBQ’s? What about bonfires? Lots of kids there. What about the risk from an open coal fire?

Personally, I think smoking is ridiculous, that a parent or grandparent that smokes in front of their children is not setting a good example but it is none of my business if they choose to do so.

My anecdote?

Its not my anecdote. You are suggesting that it is impossible to push a kid from the front on a swing without pushing them off, so I, quite reasonably, asked if you were thick.

Your response has answered my question. Thank you. Have a great day licking the windows clean in your house.

Fair enough I didn’t read the author.

I must be thick then as I still can’t see how it works?However, I have no recent experience of childrens playgrounds but when I was a child I cannot remember getting a push from someone standing in front of me. Which part of the child do you push from the front? Genuine question.

I don’t think I should reasonably expect people smoking fags in playgrounds.

Why not?

Apart from you finding the smell offensive what harm is it doing?

Are you thick?

No.

I am suggesting you are an internet keyboard warrior who would never say anything to anyone in that manner and that your anecdote is a fabrication.

how did that cheap hardware fare in Iraq ?

Very badly.

However, it was perfect tank country, which really helped the US and British armour.

Also, a lot of it was the superior tactics as well as equipment. A bit like 1940 when the French had more and far better tanks than the Germans but didn’t use them correctly.

treating lung cancer in half a billion smokers

Why would they bother to treat them? I didn’t think they really had much regard for the populations welfare.

Chinese people had no say in the selection of their new leaders, highlighting that despite the country’s three decades of rapid modernization, the government remains an authoritarian one-party system that places arbitrary curbs on freedom of expression, association, religion, prohibits independent labor unions and human rights organizations, and maintains party control over all judicial institutions. The government also censors the press, internet, and publishing industry, and enforces highly repressive policies in ethnic minority areas in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Inner Mongolia.

Non-smoker

He was pushing the child from the front on a swing with the fag in hos mouth exhaling in their face

Junkyard that takes some doing! Considering the kid is moving with a constant flow of air over their face, not sure how the smoke would go into their face? How do you push a child from the front without pushing them off the swing?

If you left how do you know that last sentence is true?

I don’t think many of his sentences are true, sounds like he has exaggerated/made up the tale to me.

The last paragraph is both funny, and symptomatic of something. We should really be proud that, with the expenditure of billions of pounds, a country of 60m people in Europe can play in a willy-waving contest with a country of 1.3bn people on the other side of the world?

Ben – Do you know how a SSBN works? It doesn’t really matter how far away you are.

As for willy-waving, I would consider it more of “deterrence”.

there is still only one military superpower

At the moment, but for how long?

exposing everyone to the disgusting stench.

Are you nostrils really that sensitive?

How do you cope with multi-storey car park stair wells?

London in the summer when the drains are getting a bit smelly?

Driving past a pig farm?

Some sensitive souls on STW!