CO19, the police firearms unit that were involved in the Jean Charles de Menendez shooting, carry the Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol. The Glock 17 has 17-round magazine. The armed officer shot de Menendez eight times, so he still had 9 rounds in the magazine.

With a seventeen round capacity, eight rounds hardly constitutes “pumping an entire magazine into a man” does it?

It seems more likely that the officer continued firing until he was satisfied that someone who he had been led to believe was a potential suicide bomber was no further threat to him, his colleagues or the general public.

Hardly the actions of someone who’d “lost control” is it? Surely, if he’d lost control as you claim, he’d have discharged the full 17 rounds he had in the magazine.

I don’t really think there is any doubt he was restrained before he was shot.

And so what if he was? Restraining a suicide bomber (which the intelligence available to the armed officers at the time indicated that this is what they were dealing with) doesn’t always eliminate the threat.

For me, the armed officer acted in accordance with his training, after accurately accessing the likely threat based on the (admittedly wrong) intelligence he’d been given.

So, in this case, I’d say the officer dealt with the situation in a controlled manner, which would indicate that his training was effective.

You seemed to have based your opinion that the officer was “overhyped” or had “lost control” on your assumption that he’d fired a full magazine into de Menendez. As he didn’t, I assume you will now reconsider your opinion, or will you?

It was the chain of command that failed Jean Charles de Menendez, not the officer who pulled the trigger.

Look at De Menezes for a classic example. The cop clearly lost control. He pumped an entire magazine into a man who was being restrained on the ground.

I’m still interested in where you sourced this information TJ…

The cop clearly lost control. He pumped an entire magazine into a man who was being restrained on the ground.

Also, I can actually think of a very good reason for pumping a whole magazine into someone.

Souhaila Sami Andrawes Sayeh, who was the only surviving terrorist involved in the Mogadishu hijack, was hit with seven 9mm rounds and was still mobile enough to give the V for victory sign as she was stretchered away from the aircraft.

If you had reason to suspect someone was a suicide bomber, a full magazine would be a reasonable response. It only takes the slightest movement to detonate explosives; a full magazine reduces considerably the chances of a terrorist making such a movement.

Look at De Menezes for a classic example. The cop clearly lost control. He pumped an entire magazine into a man who was being restrained on the ground.

An entire magazine? With which weapon? As I understood it, Jean Charles De Menenez was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.

Do you have a source?

I have repeatedly said it is a failure of training and possibly selection that leads officers into situations like this that they clearly are not emotionally and mentally prepared for. They should not be making these decisions in a fearful and adrenaline pumped frame of mind.

For me, you have lost all credibility with this statement, which illustrates quite clearly that you have never been in a situation even remotely threatening and had to make a decision that could have severe repercussions whatever you do. And when I say repercussions, I mean death (for you and maybe others) or the possibility of prosecution and a jail term.

Maybe you think you can imagine what it’s like, but its patently obvious from this statement that, in fact, you have absolutely no idea.

I’m sure this won’t stop you from giving us your opinion on the subject for at least another couple of pages though, so please carry on.

TandemJeremy – Member

…its to do with overhyped up cops who shoot first and regret later.

Overhyped? Can you imagine the decision making process an armed officer has to go through before pulling the trigger?

Assessing the situation based on what they can see, the prior intelligence they have and the consequences of getting it wrong, all done in a split second?

Get it wrong and you open yourself up to prosecution. Get found guilty and it’s not just your job you lose, there’s a real possibility of a jail term for manslaughter as well.

Of course, it’s very easy to second guess an armed officer from the comfort of your keyboard. It’s certainly easier than having to make the decision, and actually pull the trigger, in a situation where there could be a real threat to you, your colleagues or the general public.

Suggesting that it’s all down to “overhyped up cops who shoot first and regret later” simply illustrates how little you understand about the demands on armed officers while, of course, not letting that stop you from offering an opinion on the subject.

I’ve had a bit of a pre-Christmas splurge on bike kit:

eBay bargain (frame only):

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Blur LT2[/url] by ianswheeler[/url], on Flickr

For winter gloop (and snow):

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Cotic BFe[/url] by ianswheeler[/url], on Flickr

I’m 5’11” and did ride a medium Blur LT, now riding a large Blur LT2. Not a massive difference if I’m honest, although the large does feel a bit more stretched out.

I fly around 250,000 miles a year and never, ever book with a US airline anymore. I’ve tried them all, mainly because they are cheaper than European operators to the US, but they were all equally bad.

Always fly long haul West with Lufthansa now, and long haul East with Singapore, Qatar or Emirates.

Flown a couple of times with Virgin to LA and SFO and would do so again if Lufthansa wasn’t an option.

Not the best location, but certainly the funniest day on a bike this year…

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MTB Coed-y-Brenin[/url] by ianswheeler[/url], on Flickr

On a more positive note, Qatar isn’t a ‘dry’ country. A lot of the hotels in Doha sell alcohol, but you’ll need a second mortgage if you want more than one night in the bar!

Try Alan at Sierra Cycling in Fuengirola.

Just come back from a couple of days there. You stay in a house/villa within a gated community with a communal swimming pool, but the beach is literally 100 metres away.

House/villa is perfect for a family, sleeps up to 8, or the one we stayed in did.

The riding was good and thoroughly enjoyable. If you’re only doing a few days ridng on your own, then at least you’ll have a group of people to ride with.

Bike hire was reasonable as well.

Here’s their website[/url]

cynic-al – Member

How’d you break the mmmbop?

Went over the bars, bike followed me and I landed on it. Bent the top tube on a large rock.

It was the second one I’d damaged; the first was slightly less terminal!

I’ve had a couple:

Penmachno 2009

Elfinsafety
I’m still wondering what relevance his GFs colour has…

Nobody asked his girlfriend’s colour.

Damn, I knew I should have checked this thread before ringing Cy and ordering a new BFe! Looks like I missed out there Rusty.

Cheers for the replies. I think I’m going to go with the BFe…

Actually you can take out crash damage insurance for motorsport now, including for MotoGP. The premiums are quite high, but when a small knock in a GT1 car can leave you with a bill for £50,000 that’s sort of understandable.

Not sure if anyone in F1 has taken out a policy though…

dazzlingboy – Member
Coming from a devoted owner of 2 dogs that is saying something. I’d love to take my younger lab round the trails, but taking to Glentress of a weekend is asking for some knob end stormtrooper to run him over.

Why would you assume that the dog would only be run over by a “knob end stormtrooper”? Surely anyone could end up hitting an unruly dog, not just people on 8″ travel bikes auditioning for the latest Star Wars prequel/sequel?

Actually, I don’t see a problem with dogs anywhere, as long as they’re well trained and the owners are responsible.

I’m not sure taking a dog to a busy trail centre on a weekend would be classed as responsible, but it’s the owner’s dog, the owner’s choice and it’s the owner who will have to live with the consequences (and the cost) should the dog get cut it in half with a set of Fox 36’s, or injure a rider unlucky enough to hit it, because they were unable to keep it under control.

I am in the Singapore Airlines business lounge in Changi airport.

I’ve spent half my adult life in the Singapore Airlines business lounge at Changi Airport. Certainly seems like it, anyway!

@Bananaworld….

You are my new hero! I must have bled my brakes about 10 times trying to reduce the free stroke to no avail.

Just popped into the garage and tried your technique and the brakes are now spot on.

Many thanks…

MRE = Meals Rejected by Ethiopians

The Americans would swap virtually anything for the tins of processed cheese (cheese possessed) we used to get in 10 man ration packs. Our whole squadron were kitted out with American camp beds, which were far superior to the British version, off the back of cheese swaps!

The stuff was bloody awful as well!

My two kids have got rats, two males called Fry and Bender. I was against it at first, I’d rather they got chipmunks, but I’m sold on them now. Very intelligent, very amusing and very friendly – except to the cat, which they hate and regularly chase round the room!

I work with this…

and this…

and this…

Unfortunately I’m not driving/riding any of them!

Second the Blackspire Stinger. Had to do a bit of grinding to fit it on one bike, but it went on the other bike with no problems and works perfectly.

I had a Yeti 575 and now have a Blur LT. The Yeti was a nice “all-day” bike but I much prefer the Blur LT as an “everyday” bike.

Never ridden an Orange, so can’t help you out there.

Posted the nude ones on the internet and chucked the rest away…

I used to do this for a living. Well, not for a living, I was doing a different job but it involved climbing TV masts and guided towers quite often. It also involved climbing towers in the dark in areas where the favourite pastime of the local population was lobbing bricks at you or, occasionally, shooting at you.

It was recommended to climb with two clips, with one always attached, or a fall arrestor (on the smaller towers) but doing it this way was slow and tiring, so we always used to freeclimb.

Actually the climbing wasn't the worse bit if you had a problem with heights. The worse bit was clipping on with the polestrap at the top and letting go with both hands so you could rig or derig the kit you were working on. We had many one-handed riggers who simply couldn't do it and eventually moved on to other jobs!

Climbing down was also more worrying than climbing up, as you had no choice but to look down.

We used to climb one TV mast on the top of a mountain occasionally. We always used to take the new riggers up there because you'd have to look down the mast and the mountain onto the city below. And yes, we did have a couple who froze and had to be talked/bullied into climbing down again.

Get to meet and interview quite a few celebs through work…

Brad Pitt – met him a couple of times, quite funny. Disappointed he didn't have Anglelina with him!
Juan Pablo Montoya – came across as a bit of a knob
Katie Stamm – Miss America 2009, very pleasant but can't sing to save her life!
Jay Leno – quite funny, despite not sleeping for 36 hours prior to interview!
Sami Hyypia – quite chatty, and very tall!
Matt Le Blanc – quite chatty, big bike racing fan
Pamela Anderson – also quite chatty and very polite
Tom Cruise & Katie Holmes – he is very, very short!
Nigel Mansell – couldn't stop staring at his moustache
Mark Webber – bit boring
King of Spain – he knew someone I worked with. Seemed pleasant enough
Keith Flint off of the Prodigy – met him a few times, really nice guy and not what you would expect at all

When I was in the Army Dick Strawbridge was my adjutant and I used to play (and drink) alongside him in the Regimental Rugby Team!

I would say the 601 route is both "massively exposed and unrideable" and a must-do all at the same time! Actually, we managed to ride all of it from Altissimo to Torbole, but we did struggle on some sections and there were quite a few crashes along the way.

Will definitely try Tremalzo and Maxx next time. Just out of interest, how hot was it in July?

Many thanks for the pointers tamworthcrowd, I will check out the links.

I've got a bottlerocket, built up with a coil shock and coil lyriks. I used to have a 6.6SS and, although the bottlerocket is slightly heavier, I haven't noticed any real difference pedalling it uphill.

It was good fun in the Alps recently, but it is a bit short and I'm not sure I'd want to be doing all day epics on it – I have a Blur for that. The Bottlerocket is much more fun to ride the downhills on though.

This year was my first time in Morzine. Spent a couple of days riding the marked trails around Morzine and Les Gets then headed off into the wilds with a map, a compass and an inflated sense of my own riding ability. Found some really nice trails but, as ahwiles said, the VTT Interdit signs did seem to be quite widespread.

I picked up something like this from Media Markt in Germany (it was quite a bit cheaper though)

Monster Aux and Charger Package

This allows you to plug the iPod into the car stereo and the charger at the same time.

Maybe have a look on eBay for something similar.

Of course, you could just buy the 3.5mm jack to 3.5mm jack cable and a normal car charger.

Ah, The Stranglers. was a big fan, but lost interest when Hugh Cornwell left the band.

A mate had a Ford Cortina with The Stranglers logo across the bonnet and doors. We used to get a few funny looks arriving at the pub in it!

I'm just back from a week in Morzine with the wife and two kids (8 & 10). I was out on th ebike for at least four hours each day and there was plenty to keep them occupied.

They spent most of the time by the pools under the Super Morzine lift. When the weather turned nasty (one day), we had a wander round the town, a nice lunch and watched what was going on in the square.

We also did a bit of horse riding, rafting and the kids really enjoyed the Indiana Parc, which is a Go Ape style thing. I was even going to give parapenting a go (I used to parachute) but the weather was too bad on the day I was meant to do it!

I think if you go with a group of people all with kids of similar ages then they will tend to keep each other amused as long as they've got somewhere to play. Can't help with Chalets, as we stayed in an apartment, but Le Sherpa looked pretty good everytime we called into the bar.

It was a good week, but we'll probably try somewhere different next year.

Here's mine, just built up…

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18" Ragley MmmBop Frame
Rockshox Recon 140mm maxle forks (Will be swapped for floats or revs)
Halo Freedom rims & Spin Doctor hubs
SLX Chainset (Double & Bash)
SLX Mecha
SLX Shifters
Truvativ Stylo Bars & Stem
Thomson Layback post
Charge Spoon saddle

good fun to ride

Got two Carrerra Kraken frames off eBay for £14 each. Built one up with 26" wheels for my 10-year-old son and one with 24" wheels for my 8-year-old daughter.

This is the 26" one. Apart from the forks, which were some spares with a too short steerer I had knocking about, everything else was from the classifieds/eBay.

Off to Morzine tomorrow for a week with the family. All have bikes, so there'll be a few family rides, but I'll be getting out on my own a fair bit too.

I run a Blackspire stinger on a dual ring set-up with a Gamut P40 bashguard. Works perfectly.