It’s a good question.

It’s not for me and I really don’t see the attraction. But I think it should be legal, for the simple reason that if it were banned it would simply go underground. Fights would still continue, only unregulated.

Agreed, but by the same argument, it’s hard to argue against the bodily autonomy of the previously mentioned chap who doesn’t like his meat n two veg, or his leg. Makes me feel a bit queezy to think about it, but just because I don’t get it, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have capacity to make those decisions. That it shouldn’t be done by some very niche rent boys and girls goes without saying, but that’s an artefact of it being illegal and underground, rather than the ethical differences.

You have rules and a trained referee to prevent this, and usually qualified doctors on hand.

If the only difference between boxing and this extreme body modification scene is the presence of professional referees and medics, then I can see a(mother) lucrative side hustle for some doctors in the future. You’ve identified a practical and legal difference, but not a moral one.

So to explore the ‘grey area’ a little more, how is cage fighting, or even boxing legal? I mean, some of it is pretty grim and has left people dead or with permanent disabilities on more than one occasion, but because ‘we, society’ like to see blokes physically assaulting each other for money, it’s okay?

hard to see much moral difference to be honest, other than the audience numbers.

Got a little update;

I reported the issue to the bank and after asking a lot of automated questions and some consideration they have credited my account with a ‘temporary refund’ and raised a claim with the merchant on my behalf. If the merchant/scammer provides evidence that my claim is not valid in the next 35 days then the bank will redebit the amount, but I can’t see how they could do that. 

So a cautiously good result. Will update further when I know more. Thanks all.

thsnls for the insights everyone. I think I’ll call my bank today, fully expecting to chalk the loss up to experience, but you never know.

I can see a potential path to PR in the next few years, and with it, the opportunity for people to actually oye for what they support, rather than merely against what they detest the most. This could go either way to be honest, but it would be interesting times at least. It’s fair to say that the two party system is rotten to the core though.

Then why are you representing a party that represents none of those things and is utterly complicit in that awful right-wing slide?

Interesting question. I think given the two party system that is currently in place, I’d rather be in the least worst party working with many others in it who share my thinking to steer the boat in such a way that I’d be comfortable with, than outside the party, loudly but ineffectually complaining whilst simultaneously being completely marginalised and disenfranchised.

I don’t make the rules of the game. But if I want to make any difference at all, I’d need to gain a little influence.

Hey, thanks for remembering this! I lost, but managed to achieve a 17.6% swing towards Labour. Which in an area so blue that they think Gavin Williamson is a fine upstanding chap, I’m gonna take as a moral victory. I’ll try again next time 👍

@chevychase, Ha! I’ve made the exact same observations about people wanting to be managers at work, too. I am now one of those managers and some of my greatest job satisfaction comes from being a manager for staff, rather than against as I observe so many of my contemporaries being.

So maybe, just maybe I could be one of those exceptions that prove the rule.

Y’know you have to get (some of) these people to vote for you if you want to be successful?

it’s a really reasonable point, but I don’t think that the current hard right politics being implemented by the incumbent government really represent the majority. When I engage with individuals I find that many times they are far more socially liberal than they maybe realise; I’m fairly sure that if people were allowed to sit down, read policies and make reasonable decisions based on what they feel is right and fair, absent of being bombarded by warped messages from a toxic media and commentators every hour of every day, we’d have a very different government in charge.

I also think that, more than before, people are starting to see through the gaslighting, and that’s why Labour have a 26% lead.

Basically, I think most people are decent, reasonable human beings, given a chance. Just not the Tory 1%ers.

No idea how to do it though!

it’s basically an arcane, repetitive form that you get from the council, you need a proposer and a seconder, and you need to be eligible, which is either live or have business in the nearby area (not necessarily the ward you want to stand in mind you). If you do it independently then it all falls on you, if you are a political party member then you are supported by an election agent of the party and you get to use their logos etc. it’s all very 1970s and ripe for an overhaul to be honest. This election will be the first to require photo ID at the polling station too, talk about decks being stacked…

I hope you’re wrong.

I would second (third) terbanafine (sp?). As a bonus, if you get a bit of athletes foot every now and again (fungal toes are often associated with athletes foot) it’ll absolutely nuke that too and you’ll end up with lovely feet again. If there’s such a thing…

This is a stark glimpse at unfettered capitalism’s logical end game; neofeudalism. People with assets exploit those without.

Prepare to serf.

What quaint writing style the journalist has – ‘it went off, shooting him in the tummy’

is this maybe a telltale for an AI written or translated story do you reckon?

Oh come on. I’ve seen some of the monstrosities shown off on the ‘watches N+1’ thread, there’s people on here that will snap that up!

Can’t go too far wrong with a Fiat Panda; same running gear as the ever trendy 500, but with much more practicality. Cheap on insurance, too.

Does anyone remember Outlaws, a series starring Phil Daniels as a jobbing legal aid lawyer? I remember really enjoying it for it’s dark humour and gritty style. It may not have aged well, but I was very surprised that it only got one season.

Ah, I understand the confusion now; I meant RR cars. I apologise for my lack of accuracy. I have no info on the industrial relations of RR plc.

Wrong, on both figures

okay, but figures are from reasonably reputable sources. Can you provide a more accurate source?

https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/rolls-royce-factory-workers-win-record-pay-increase

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/jaguar-land-rover-workers-12-24540883.amp

I’ve not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4%

JLR factory workers; 12.4%
Rolls Royce staff; 10% + £2000 cost of living bonus.

There will be more but these are just two fairly high profile ones I noticed over the last few months.

None of that is specific to the US. It sounds like policing in the UK too

I’ve worked alongside frontline UK police officers for over twenty years. Whilst the UK police undoubtedly has its issues (especially in the MET which seems to have significantly lower recruitment standards than the rest of the uk) they are still completely different in their approach to US police. Policing by consent of the population is actually a thing in the UK. De-escalation techniques are actively practiced. Ive been present when force has been used to subdue and control individuals on many occasions, and I’ve never seen unjustified force used, ever. I appreciate that anecdotes are not evidence and that I haven’t got a similar level of experience with US police, but there is very obviously a very different style of policing involved.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been pulled over by a state trooper for speeding in Florida, and whilst it went fine, it wears a much more aggressive and unpleasant experience than it would have been in the UK. UK police rarely INITIATE an interaction by shouting at the member of public. Bizarre that that is seen as acceptable in the US.

This latest Memphis tragedy will hopefully go some way to moving the debate from simply one of individual racist officers to one of racist institutions and systematic ábside of power by the many ‘badged’ organisations with power to arrest and use lethal force in the US. The US public, who fund these organisations after all, should not put up with being treated like shit by them.

Doesn’t really matter as they can be fudged anyway. Especially by dodgy landlords. I’ve got secondary glazing throughout my house, apparently. News to me.

They’re balloting next week. Not sure how to vote.

Well, if you want to give your union ANY kind of leverage in negotiation, there’s only one way to vote. On the other hand, if you’re satisfied with the pay deal and feel that it’s fair and reasonable, then vote no.

I honestly can’t understand why sometimes would consider not voting for action when they are being truly done over. It just gives implicit permission for further and more severe doings over in the coming years.

Honestly, you deserve better.

It’s easy to get on side with Tory ideology when you’re loaded. Work hard and you’ll be alright. Poor people are lazy. It’s bollocks, but it feeds their egos and assuages any guilt they may feel.

@pictonroad

Would be fairer to penalise them for heavy consumption rather than reward them (with other consumers’ money)

was the post suggesting punishment. Which is a bit weird, to be honest. (It would also be exactly the same thing as is happening really, just with a different spin on it. If you choose not to participate, you are ‘penalised’ by not receiving a small discount.

Odd that the posters mind would go to penalty rather than incentive, but hey ho.

Some of the posts on this thread absolutely reek of middle class privilege. Wow.

‘Punish people’ for using electricity (that they are already paying stupid money for) instead of incentivise change? FFS.

My lads and I participated in the scene via octopus; we don’t stand to gain greatly as we are already fairly energy conscious and the bills are killing us, but we delayed using the electric cooker for an hour. We actually quite inconvenient and the boys were hungry but we felt like we were doing our bit. Nice to know some people thought I should be penalised for feeding my children at an ‘inappropriate’ time.

No, but equally, people are not free to say whatever they like without repercussions.

Absolutely. But then that’s a truism that is almost not worth saying; why say anything at all if it’s not to seek reaction; that’s the very meaning of conversation. There’s a big difference between saying ‘I don’t like what you are saying’ and ‘I don’t think you should be allowed to say it’.

As no one here except mods is in a position to censor the rape comment (and they haven’t, to their credit) then the discussion is largely moot.

Regarding people being triggered, whilst I agree it’s technically possible, I think it’s probably quite unlikely as it’s a joke that supports victims at the expense of the offender, albeit rather clumsily and coarsely.

Whilst Wheaton’s law is always best followed, just how much sensitivity should we allow for in potential readers of our comments? Let’s face it, taking offence is a choice that doesn’t need to be taken and self censorship to avoid all possible offence is the death of interesting and challenging conversations (See; work emails).

he hasn’t been convicted of anything.

and he may not; those with enormous resources often manage to avoid convictions that those of more normal means would have been hung* for. Doesn’t mean he’s not guilty as sin though.

I won’t lose any sleep if I found out he’d been on the receiving end of the behaviour that he’s allegedly been dishing out and definitely advocating and encouraging. I’d probably draw a line at wishing it upon him but if it were to happen to be honest I’d probably have a quiet chuckle to myself at the news. What goes around, comes around (though not often enough).

Not sure who could actually be seriously offended by that either, victims of the crime would probably find it hard to be very sympathetic with a rapist being raped, and most right minded people would recognise the karma aspect. Maybe hardline alpha misogynistic snowflakes would be upset? Ah well.

I’m also somewhat concerned by the ‘don’t think/say that, someone might be offended’ line that this thread is going down. Someone might be offended, it may not be in the best of tastes, it might be a bit mean (to a rapey misogynistic ****) and I may not agree with it, but I don’t think we should be attempting to police other people’s thoughts and opinions. That’s a dodgy road to travel down.

*Literally, once upon a time, but fortunately not so much any more.

They probably are when the fantasies involve rape. As in “fantasising about prison rape”.

probably not actually; rape has hardly anything to do with sex, it’s all about power, I suspect especially so in the case of prison rape. Subjugation, control and power are the names or the game there.

Isn’t ‘Alpha’ yesterdays news now? Surely Sigma is the new achingly cool Alpha male that is to be aspired to?

Well, I’d be inclined to believe it was nonsense, except my mostly black lurcher collie cross is definitely scared of black labs. He was attacked by one with absolutely no visible warning (both the owner my dog and and I were taken completely by surprise) at a village fair when both were on leads, so at least we know why. No harm done but very noisy and spittle coating. The weird ‘sideways growl dance trying to make himself look big whilst actually just looking daft’ thing he does now when he meets one on a walk was comical at first, but it’s tiresome now. We are trying to socialise him out of it but it’s hard work. He doesn’t have any particular issue with other dogs.

This is the key point for me. Their first instinct is to cover up their mistakes,

and the elephant in the room is that in their jobs, they learn exactly how to get away with it, too.

Either the nick-name or his predilection for violent porn should have been a red flag; neither did.

absolutely agree that it’s a red flag; however I’m pretty sure one’s genre of preference is not included in even the enhanced DBS check. I’m not defending the disgusting ’laddish’ culture at all, but it’s very difficult to take heresay and rumour (until it’s in hindsight) and convert it into hard evidence that will stand up in an employment tribunal. I would imagine that the same culture that condones such misogynistic and vile banter also isn’t one that’s likely to encourage whistle blowing and ‘telling’ on a colleague.

A culture change is needed, and may well be underway, but there are no quick fixes.

It’s very easy to bash organisations with the benefits of hindsight, and it’s often completely justified. However caution should be employed to not tar all with the same brush.

Wherever posters are falling on the traitor-victim continuum, it’s very telling that there hasn’t been a single argument, elegant or course, in favour of the removal of Begum’s citizenship. That is a shocking indictment on the state of our government, and makes me think that if STW is an echo chamber it’s one of decency and humanity. I’m glad I’m within it.

I do wonder if Javid, in possession of all available details of possible charges and legal opinion on probable outcomes given the evidence available, took the decision to render Begum stateless because there’s a very good chance that she would not be found guilty of anything at all and the Tories couldn’t risk losing that sort of face to the dirty right gutter press and it’s baying readership?

I’m also of the opinion that he took the decision knowing full well that it was illegal and will be overturned in the fullness of time, but did it to kick the can down the road and make it somebody else’s problem. If/when the decision is found to be illegal, I hope (forlornly) that Javid is held criminally accountable for effectively the most cynical and disgusting abuse of (absolute) power against a minor that you could possibly think up.

I’m certainly not holding my breath. For sure, he’s between a rock and a hard place, but Tories value pigheaded strength more than pragmatic flexibility. It’s all very toxic alpha male ego crap.

The only way out of this is if they can find a face saving way to give an increased pay offer, that he can pretend isn’t an increased pay offer, or that extracts some amazing productivity bullshit promise from the unions. We’ll see.

From that guardian article linked above;

Before that process starts, the government is keen to sit down with the unions and talk about pay and make sure they understand where we’re coming from. -Sunak

Wow. The superlative arrogance of this man. The position is basically do as you are **** told, you plebs, I am in charge and I know best”.

A London MP doing a phone in show where the public can ask questions? Arguably he should do it for free, but it is work that it’s worth an MP doing. Not like spending months in the Caribbean giving legal advice.

exactly. I don’t particularly like his radio host ‘fake sincere outrage’ style, but it’s absolutely justifiable to be doing this; it’s entirely within an MP’s engagement remit.

Advisory positions on private health company boards, less so…

I have, and I don’t read the Tory press

Well you’re doing a good job of partying their editorials! Osmosis?

It’s not only about “compulsory redundancies:

I definitely didn’t suggest it was JUST about that. I think I mentioned terms and conditions of remaining staff?

Have you watched the unedited video of ML’s appearance before a select committee? It’s both entertaining and more informative of his actual positions than his numerous clashes with ‘journalists’ which are quite fun to watch but very shallow on content.

Mick is resistant to change and I don’t see that as a quality in a politician…
…However a rail network is very much a part of the future and the future is higher tech trains and infrastructure run by fewer people.

I don’t think this is a fair criticism of ML. It’s often how he’s portrayed, but when he’s challenged in interviews or debates he’s VERY clear that not only does he accept change, he makes the point that the railways have been constantly changing and reducing workforce numbers throughout their history, with the cooperation of the unions. What he is fighting for is change that doesn’t screw over his members completely, which is entirely his remit.

I think it’s reasonable to think that evolutionary change of an industry doesn’t have to mean worse terms and conditions for the fewer staff that remain. However companies run for profit will seek to exploit their workforce to the greatest degree that they can get away with so it’s up to unions to oppose this.

He also makes the point many of the members are very open to retirement/redundancy and the only thing he’s opposed to is COMPULSORY redundancies. This is a negotiating position and he’s seeking to strengthen the hand of his members rather than fight the tide, again a totally reasonable thing for a union rep to do.

He’s portrayed by the press as a Luddite, Skargillesque figure unwilling to accept any modernisation but that’s a very Tory press led characterisation; it’s not how he actually comes across at all if you listen to him talk.

I’m no fan of any royal but he looks like a Spencer. There’s no need to buy into prurient gossip to explain his looks.

yeah, I’m no follower of royal stuff either, so I did a bit of google image searching and honest appraising and my money’s on Hewitt, just about. Harry does look a little bit like a Spencer, but also a bit like a Hewitt, and not a great deal like a Windsor. Would explain the lack of love and excess of tension between the brothers and their father. It’s hardly the most unlikely possibility in the world, why would it be such a surprise? Yeah it would be considered ‘juicy gossip, but that doesn’t make it less likely. They say a significant percentage of people haven’t got the biological father that they thought they did.