:roll: *gives up and hangs head*

To be honest, I'm really not bothered as I know the clients that do book me value what I do and the end products. People who take the attitude of Mr Munro won't book me. And we'll both be better off for it. They'll book someone who charges £120 for a two hour shoot and all the photos on a DVD and never notice that the pics are utter crap.

And when they go to rebook that tog a few years later, he'll either be out of business, or he'll have wised up, realised that a business cannot be run without a proper pricing structure and put his prices up to a sustainable level.

No, there's a law – there for several good reasons, mostly listed above.

EDIT: and to answer your question, you will almost certainly get what you pay for, as with most things…

You're not just paying for three hours of work – I'm not gonna spell it out again, but consider the overheads and the fact that for every hour you're shooting, you've got to take into consideration another two hours of editing, processing and to-ing and fro-ing between clients.

EDIT AGAIN: wot he said whilst I was editing (below)

So how much value is their in retaining copyright and doing reprints for the original customer?
Sounds to me like its a hangover from the pre-digital age. Doing a sitting and handing over copyright & digital image sounds like the way things should be going

Sigh…. My grandad was a wedding / portrait photographer and I can promise you that he did not hand over his medium format negatives at the end of the shoot so the clients could go and make shonky prints in their home darkrooms.

mastiles – that does just sound like bad business practice – I wouldn't go back either.

whether you want a bunch of cliched, posed formal pictures, and the same set of 'creative' pictures that they wheeled out for the other 50 weddings they did that year

Joe – a good photographer will constantly be trying out new things – I know I do – every month a bunch of us NE wedding photographers get together and have fun with a few models either in the city at an industrial landscape, or in a (cliched) corn field – whatever. We mess on with off camera flash, teach each other new tricks and poses and generally have a laugh. Then we go and get pissed as little beetles.

These skills then carry over into the business – we've had time to make our mistakes in a non pressure environment. The kind of tired old stuff you're talking about should be very apparent from looking at a tog's portfolio. If the pics are are locked away in password protected galleries, with 12 of the best on show, be very afreaid. Run away.

doc_blues – thanks for the comment, much appreciated!

Nice links DrJ – I was expecting a p1ss take!

mastiles – I think your experience shows how important it is to go in with your eyes open – you should be aware of exactly what you're getting before you hand over any cash. Any decent outfit will tell you before the shoot – places like Venture will need some heavy pushing though….

I'm guessing that he did your wedding on the cheap and had wised up a bit by the time he did your portrait? Did you manage to get a discount on the session? If so, he / she might feel like he's been hammered down too far to offer any more cheap favours – all guesswork and feel free to repudiate…

Aaargh! My eyes! Bl00dy angels!!!

Fair point above and yes, if you're very, very relaxed about your wedding photo expectations, then having a bunch of your drunken mates take photos at what for them, is basically a big piss up, and then having loads of photos of you picking your nose may certainly be an option….

Quite a few members of my family are keen togs, as are (unsurprisingly) many of my mates. I got married last October and paid a consumate pro the going rate to come and take pics – and a grand job he did too :D

Regarding portraits, then yes, that is a fair point – I suppose, again, it just depends on expectations. If you want a Venture style shoot, then your mate popping round for a beer is likely to disappoint. If you just want relaxed snapshots, then all well and good.

Oha nd mastiles – didn't you have a contract expressly setting out what you were getting for yer cash?

I do a fair few portraits, although weddings are my main gig.

It's very, very hard to make money out of portraiture, and yes, it's standard practice not to give away copyright. It's worth pointing out that it's not just naughty and bad to scan and reproduce images, it's completely illegal [/sanctimonious mode off].

I don't give out hi-res digital (portraiture) files because I need to sell prints / canvases etc to make the shoot worthwhile. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to charge £40 for a sitting and then have clients complaining that they're expected to shell out more for prints. How exactly do they think we make a living? A £40 shoot per day doesn't cover petrol, business / car insurance, kit replacement / repair, training, printing costs and all the other myriad of overheads involved in running a business…

What I will do for clients of the Faceboook generation is sell a low res (72dpi) file for 99p. This is watermarked and they can do what they like with it.

Another very compelling reason not to sell digital files is that Aunty Flo will go to Asda and get some non-callibrated 7×5" prints done which will look horrendous. She will then proudly frame them up, hang them on the wall and suddenly my name is associated with awful prints – some clients even have a go at putting baby on a fluffy cloud with angels adorn-ed — this has actually happened!

Not annoyed – can't see the pics 8)

I recently stood on a slug on our patio, in stockinged feet. Vile. Also, the slime just does not wash off your hands – loads of soap and very hot water made no difference.

Chuckle at BD's last few posts!

I'm now happily married and hopefully won't have to face any of this ever again (!) touch wood.

Back in the day though, I've been on both ends of the cheating stick. A girl I was absolutely infatuated with went travelling, came back and told me straight out that she'd had a one night stand. I got over it, forgave her and eventually she asked me to marry her. I didn't, but that was down to me not being ready – the marriage would've meant moving abroad too…

I've also been a cheating toe-rag (in another life!) and wouldn't have expected any sympathy had I been caught – I eventually was BTW and got all I deserved.

If my wife did the dirty, I think I'd find it very, very hard to forgive and forget….

as for getting the person out, it can be done in about 2.5 months if you instruct a solicitor to serve the correct notice of court proceedings and go to an eviction hearing, after which the judge will rule in your favour and give the person a couple of weeks or so after which they have to go.

you'll also be awarded costs, so should in theory get most of that cost back, but if the tenant is on benefits and has no money then that may well be tricky to actually get your hands on.

In a perfect world ^^^

Unfortunately, if the tenant chooses not to go, there's not a lot you can do about it, other than continue down the long and pricey legal route – as I said in my first post, and as several others have said since, a difficult / clued up tenant can draw things out over several months.

Lightning never strikes twice – so I wouldn't worry about abdominal armour. Does it even exist?

You could spend your life dressing up as robocop and still break your chin – better to accept the risks, perhaps go on a skills course and enjoy riding.

I'm no hard man and hate getting into fights (I'm also not Rudeboy) but a very little mildly threatening behaviour is sometimes worth its weight in lawyers fees.

L(andlord)TFU.

I get royalties every time that pic appears online.

Goan. Never mind.

Seriously though – I suppose I am doing the whole D's.A. thing to an extent. If time and money aren't massive issues for the OP then, yes, the sensible thing to do is obvious. I suppose also, that I'm still smarting from my sister's experience at the hands of a complete scrote.

One method has a guaranteed outcome, and is very expensive and time consuming. The other is a bit of a punt which may reap instant rewards for not much cash.

EDIT: threatening to send anybody is totally half-assed and should not be contemplated.

Fair enough TJ – I guess it depends on the tenant and whether or not you're lucky. I know of people on both sides of the fence (tenants and landlords) who have been through both methods of eviction, and IM (limited)E, one is much faster, cheaper and more satisfying than the other.

Besides, isn't a verbal agreement sometimes upheld in (Scottish) courts? That is, couldn't you serve the notice of eviction, wait for the required time, then follow my suggested course of action, claiming a verbal agreement?

Still can't help thinking that a few evil looking / smelling characters on the doorstep at three in the morning would make most folk scarper ASAP.

True, but they have to prove it! There are (sneaky) ways and means.

If it was my property, I'd go round when they were out, kick the door in and replace the locks – the fine couldn't be any more than paying to sort out the mess that a problem tenant can leave – my sister's one had ripped up the floorboards and smashed the furniture up to burn 8O

Edit: you could also then claim that the tenant had agreed to move out – your word against theirs and posession is nine points of the law and all that!

Nightmare – my sister went through this with a tenant and it took her about half a year to get the guy out. In the meantime, she and her husband were roundly abused on the rare occasions the chap deigned to answer the door. They received no income from the flat and when he was finally forced out, they were left with huge repair and cleaning bills (we're talking structural damage here!!).

So I offer you the same advice I gave my sister – hire a few heavies to turn the screw, giving a definitive timescale of, say, a week.

Nasty thing to do, but will save months of hassle and heartache (not to mention lawyers' bills).

EDIT: I notice that my post totally contradicts everyone else's, but my sis was told exactly the above ^^ and was left seriously out of pocket.

Well, one of my life's greatest regrets is selling a black paint M4 to some anonymous Japanese collecter – I had it serviced by a London outfit (they also service the Queen's Leica's apparently!) and it was quite simply, a thing of beauty – both to look at and to use.

The first roll of film through yielded 36 out of focus negs of me staring into the lens – the shutter was so quiet I thought it was broken and was looking to see if I could see the apperture opening and closing. Doh.

Unfortunately, it was worth nearly £4000 just because of the paint job, so it had to go :x

So keep as many as you feel you can afford!!

I was in a similar situation a few years ago – my grandad left a whole car load of Leica bodies and lenses, along with a huge collection of modern (non digi!) Nikon gear.

Unfortunately, I wasn't in the same happy position as you – I was merely given the job of selling it all on ebay :(

Given the choice, I would absolutely keep the Leica outfit. No question. Partly for the kudos, and partly for the quality of both glass and body.

Second choice would be the Nikkormat outfit (but ditch the Sigma zoom). It's definitely worth checking the foam seals on the bodies you decide to keep – the older Nikkormats' seals (on the door) tend to degrade and become sticky. You can buy replacement kits for about a fiver on ebay.

In terms of expanding a lens collection, the Nikkormat outfit wins.

The F5 is a fantastic camera (had one and sold it) but really is a bit pointless now – why carry around a massive lump of a camera? It's unlikely you'd want to use it in the way in which it was intended (professionally, blasting off 5+ frames per second).

For what it's worth, I use all my old Nikons with B&W or infra red film.

P.S. – Sorry for your loss.

Drunken Weegie anteater terrifies characters in classic painting shocker.

Alasdair – I'm well aware that this is a public forum but someone would really have to have it in for me for this thread to get back to those who might care. Add to this that I'm mad as hell about the cancellation so really amn't that bothered.

In the way of councils, they'll have spent this last year pouring money into feasibility studies and so forth – I very much doubt anything but extreme public shaming would have any effect… It's just the massive hypocrisy that gets my goat.

The Pixies version of 'Winterlong' by Neil Young is amazing… Though I still like the original too, just in a different way!

mick – good on you. Don't think I can wait three years though!! Also, this is a centre which still thinks nothing of disposing of sensitive documents by having a massive bonfire out back 8O So the environmental argument is unlikely to cut much ice….

Might mean loss of job (I'm only on a PVH contract, so they have no obligation to give me shifts) which might not be a bad thing!

My supervisor just bought himself a Cindercone and we go riding together weekly :-)

Lost my Oakleys at GT – asked at the cafe if they'd been handed in and all three staff fell about laughing….

Best of British!

Mercury Rev – Deserters' songs. Only to drown out next door's Pink Floyd. I like the Floyd, just not 2nd hand…..

I was going to suggest M.R. James but it just didn't fit with;

very scary, deeply unsettling fictional book

.

One of my favourite writers but more for the feel good factor than for scariness – it's more crumpets in the study and a slightly disturbing apparition than it is scary….

I'd managed to get down to two cans / bottles of beer a night until last night, when I scoffed down six pints in the pub, then came home and guzzled half a bottle of Cab Sauv. Dagnabbit.

Oh, and definitely Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle – absolutely riveting end-of-the-world scenario. One of the best books I've read in recent years.

+1 on The Road (Cormac McCarthy (SP?!)) Very quick read, but very unsettling.

What have you been putting in it? I had no taste at all from mine until I tried a foul tasting powdered energy drink. It now tastes of chemicals. Bleh!

Oh dear – the guy defending cyclists has a ridiculous hatred of dogs – not good – we need a better rep!

I must admit to being pretty peed off whilst in Glasgow recently. I was having my morning tab and coffee outside my hotel and watched several cyclists run a pedestrian crossing, weaving in and out of people crossing the road.

The peds were crossing on a green man and had to stop to allow riders to pass – just not on – simple as.

Only if you got her pregnant.

Similar to BeagleBoy – went back to uni to retrain after 12 years of cr@ppy jobs (and I do mean CR@PPY – mostly catering type stuff).

Now a wedding photographer and absolutely loving it – lots of creative options – made a lot of good friends in the profession which is important when you're self employed – it's easy to become isolated and never learn anything new.

Ruined a good hobby though…….

Yup – can't believe I've just watched it again – makes me feel a bit sick…..

Does anyone know what the outcome was? You can hear his mates shouting at him to "sit down!" so I guess it wasn't instant death!

Zurich are offering to beat ANY quote if you sign up before next year – bargain!

*probably by thruppence.

Stumpy, I live in the (one-time) car crime capital of England and my premium's £130 less than yours with a 10 year old TD Focus estate, fully comp and a fair few extras – do you use the comparison sites?

#apologies to OP for totally unhelpful post#

One of my first ever posts on here was a picture of my new bike – my absolute pride and joy. It was greeted with loads of "Fugly half clean bike", and "Look at the f00k1n state of your garden" type comments.

I was properly wound up about it for about half a day, until I started to understand the nature of the beast which is this forum. Is it right? Is it acceptable? Doesn't matter – it is what it is :D

And yes, you were lucky – a kid at my local skate park landed on his bar ends and managed to rupture his spleen amongst other things – nearly died according to the paramedics. We had the dubious honour of first aiding him til they arrived and we also thought he was on his way out. Never thought to check for bar end plugs…