Sorry, idave, I think we are thinking on the same lines but I’m not explaining myself very well. I completely agree with you, its just that difference between vital necessity (i.e. your body wouldn’t function without it) and your body wouldn’t function optimally without it.

Oh and a second point, going back to all the stuff about fat making us fat. No fat does not make us fat, fat with sugar does though. The american diet is more sugar than it is fat with all the burger buns etc. But everyone has overlooked the carbs and gone straight to the fat because thats the thing thats high in energy density.

Oh and note about the program on last night, I didn’t watch it so I didn’t comment. But a Prof friend of mind who actually spends his day researching this stuff was very embarissed about how bad the science was, there is also a significant question about who funded the show etc. as mentioned above.
Once again it is the big companies who are driving the scare mongering and are essentially killing us.

Firsly idave – yes it depends on how you define athlete, BUT as I stated, carbs are not necessary but they do help in the right place. I could still train a session without any carbs, or any carbs to follow it. But I may be in the best condition to do the next session.
Take yesterday for example –
4.5 hours on the bike, straight to the track for a 5 x 2k session.
Carb intake in the day leading up to the session was 0. No carbs taken in during the bike (MCT oil only), I only had carbs in the post training period and that consisted of a carb/protein shake and then a sweet potatoe with dinner. That finished at 9pm last night, this morning I feel fantastic. Which is lucky as I am going out on the bike for 3 hours soon with an international triathlete who is going to make me wish I had rested up for the last few days!

Going back to the points mentioned above. Yes at some point energy in> energy out causes you to accumulate fat, but it is the cause of this which is key. It is generally driven by Insulin. When you have a carb or sugar meal you get tonnes of insulin, whose job it is to clear the blood of sugar, but also fat and protein. The other job it does is to act as gatekeeper at the fat tissue. When you have high insulin levels there is a block of fat coming out of the fat tissue, only fat will go in. Therefore you will accumulate fat.

Whilst insulin levels are high you cannot use your internal fat stores, however starved you become. Therefore you body will find other energy sources. It will make you hungry so you bring more energy in, it will in some extreme cases break down tissues to provide protein for energy, all with your fat stores happily preserved!

SO, the reason I don’t train on carbs, the reason I don’t have anything to eat before a 4-5 hour bike in the morning is simple, I don’t want to switch off my primary energy source which is my internal fat stores.

And this is why I eat a diet high in fat, I provide my body with what it needs, fat for energy and hormone production, protein for muscle.

The key point is though, how long does this fat blockade go on for after you have a high GI meal? Evidence suggests that this can last from 2 hours (for very insulin sensetive athletes) to 2 days!

So for you obese fat person, they eat a pack of sweets, their insulin is then raised for 2 days, for that 2 days they are FORCED by their body to eat the energy it requires, any increase over that energy requirment (i.e. when they have a big meal at night when they don’t need the energy) and they will accumulate fat.

Exercise increases insulin sensetivity, so goes along way to reducing this blockade time.

I dont do sportives, but the last one by mum did had a selection of nuts at the food stop!

Ok ok, Firstly can I apologise for my comments regarding my qualifications. Despite what you might think I did not put that in to big myself up or say that no ones opinion is valid. I included that out of frustration that people seem to think I’m talking rubbish and have nothing to back it up.

Do you know why I bother posting on forums? Its because I want to help, I want to make you healthier and fitter and better faster athletes. I want to do it with no gain for myself, I actually coach for free because I love it so much I couldn’t even think about charging despite having all the qualifications.

Yes, I made a mistake in what I said about no carbs. What I meant to say is that joe bloggs who isn’t that active does not need carbs, not a single one. The body happily makes them no problem.
Athletes don’t necessarily need them either, but they can help in recovery as the body is slower at repairing muscles and replacing glycogen without them.

Either way, thank you to those who have seemed interested. There is a lot to be learned in this so I urge you to read on. We are only given one body and we are lucky to live in the developed world. Do you best to take care of the only life you are going to have. Good luck.

phil, you’re absolutely correct we don’t know its right, we just know we were wrong. If I had to go with a number I’d say based on the evidence that has been presented in the past 2-3 months (this stuff is moving fast) I’d say I’m personally 9/10.
But others are not so things are moving slowly.

Njee, sorry I missed your earlier comment. The athletes in question are pro triathletes, not cyclists. But also as I said above, carbs have their place and these athletes use them. They just use them to aid they recovery and during the last stages of races where the dipping into the muscle glycogen has taken its toll.
They are not using carbs in the traditional sense of carb loading and ingesting tonnes of carbs during the race. And no names I’m afraid it would be unfair to the athletes to disclose that.

Trust me legspin, they are involved. Its just taking time.

I know, I’m sorry about that. I just find it frustrating sometimes because I spend my day trying to stop people dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought. It sounds silly but its a bit like finding God (not that I have). You feel so great about it and you want everyone to feel like you do, but no one will listen.

NO NO NO legspin!!!!!!
Fat doesn’t make you fat and it doesn’t give you heart disease (I should know this one!)

And calorie excess isn’t what makes you fat, its all about your hormones.

I sense I am hitting a brick wall here so I’m going to give up.
I’ll put up some links to the evidence by some very clever people, I guess my medical degree, the fact that I work in cardiology, the nutritional qualifications, the coaching qualifications, the degree in human exercise physiology just aint enough for some people!

Can I not? well I do, maybe not straight off, but the transition doesn’t take as long as people think.

In your post you didn’t say that at first the body does not run well on fat, you said it doesn’t run well on fat, full stop.

And yes you can run as well on fat as you can on carbs, easily. And how do you know what the pros do. I know of a number of pros who use this.

Naff, my quotes didn’t work so well!

[/quote]Surely [/b]you’ll die on no carbohydrates? Atkins is low-carb, rather than no-carb?

Care to give some evidence on that?

No, the body does not run well on fat. Look forward to 4 months riding with no energy at all and probably doing more harm than good as you’re never going to replenish your glycogen stores!

The body does run well on fat???? Are you kidding me???? Fat is our primary energy source.

Can people please get this idea into their head, the body runs on ENERGY not fat, not carbs, not protein.
The body can create energy from any of the above, the ability to do this is based on many different factors, which can be altered with diet and exercise.
There is no need for any carbs in the diet, there are no ‘essential carbs’ However as athletes carbs at the correct time i.e. straight after the workout will aid recovery and muscle repair.

Maybe some of you who think you understand how the human body works should do some reading.
And NO this is not atkins, atkins focused too much on the protein, he was misguided as he did not understand the hormonal reasons as to why low carb was better. If you go low carb you have to go high fat to replace the energy.

Oh and fat doesn’t make you fat, sugar/carbs and insulin do.

Personally I’ve never had a good experience with JE James, their delivery is painfully slow with stock items taking over a week to arrive. Maybe I have been spoilt by wiggle (old wiggle that is before they started charging priority dispatch) but over a week for an instock item is a bit much.
The last straw was recently though when I order a set of instock zipp stickers of them. Almost a week later I had heard nothing so emailed them, no reply, sent 2 more emails. A few days later I got an email saying they werent in stock and I was given a refund. Since then the other shop which had them had sold out. I sent them an email asking why it had taken so long to find out they didnt have them in stock but never got a reply.
Nothing really bad but if there are other options I would always go for other shops who treat you better.

What kind of diet are you on?
If its calorie restriction then I’m not surprised you lost initally but it has slowed down. Calories in versus calories out doesn’t work I’m afraid. If you want the reasoning for it I will spend a little while explaining but its probably better you find out on your own. I don’t mean to be cryptic but it massively goes against what the common thinking is and we are all programmed to trust what we have been taught.
To point you in the right direction its all about hormones, insulin specifically. We are fat because of our carb intake not because we eat too much fat. Anyway. I will find some links to some people who can explain things a bit better than I can on a forum.

2lb a week is the MAXIMUM you should be loosing, remember your aim is to loose fat safely. You don’t want to crash and loose muscle because that will only make you slower.

No one knows me from adam on this forum so I accept your skeptisim. But I personally know I can back my ramblings up with pure science and a medical degree.

Thats very kind of you. I will be moving in July so I be in touch closer to the time!

I know, I can’t wait to move. I’m also a bit of a fell runner so having the peaks next door is going to be awesome. Especially with only having to work 2 days a week if that. Shame I’ll be taking a massive pay cut (about 1/4 of my current income) but its what it takes to make me happy, my current job is killing me!
Thanks for all the advice, I’m gonna stick with the anthem.
And again, if anyone who lives in the hope valley/sheffield area wants to be my guide for some mtbing come july please let me know!

I lived next to the FOD for 26 years, why have I only discovered mountain biking now that I live in Leicester!

vdubber, can you tell me where to go up in cademan woods I’d like to check it out sometime.

oooo, well i live in north leicester at the moment, so I may check that out. I’ve been looking for something a bit more local so I don’t need to trek to cannock.

I’m moving to north west sheffield, should be about 6-7 miles from the hope valley.
I will be very new there, I won’t know anyone and my 2 days a week will be in loughborough, so if anyone whats to be friendly and let me join them for some mtbing I would very much appreciate it!

Legend what forks are you running on the front of your anthem? I was considering putting a 120mm set on, but will 20mm really make any difference and will it unbalance the anthem?

oh and the other factor that may be important is I am moving house in a few months to the edge of the peak district, I am also only going to be work 2 days a week for the next 3 years.
I recently went to the peaks and on some of the rougher stuff I definitely lost out my said mate on his longer travel bike.

Personally if you have that kind of money I would go for second hand, or better still build up your own bike, its more fun that way! I have a couple of full sram red (once you go red you won’t regret it) builds with carbon frames that have come in at less than £1000. If your sensible you can get some great deals on second hand stuff thats been well looked after.
For 1500 new your best bet is as others have mentioned planet x, canyon, focus (I have a focus izalco and its incredible). With these you will get a great bike for great value.

Thank you so much for all the replies, its made me think about what I’m wanting it for.
I think part of the reason I am asking is because I’ve run out of road bikes to spend money on! I have gradually upgraded my road and TT bike until they are upgradable no more! I guess I just have a bit of an obsession with buying bike bits, unfortunately I am just about to loose my disposable income and take a massive paycut for at least 3 years so maybe I need to be a bit more sensible!

I did the opposite, took up mountain biking for a bit of cross training for road cycling/TT+ triathlon and now I have become addicated at the road bike barely gets a look in!

put some clarks pads in my elixirs a few weeks ago. After an hour of struggling with the pistons I got the front set it, but they rubbed on the rotor. The rears not even close. Need to bleed out the system I think. The clarks backplate is definitely thicker than the avids, so you have less room manoeuvre so to speak.

So I switched the front partially worn ones into the back.

Off to the peaks I went with my rubbing front brake, within one decent it was no longer rubbing, 5 hours later it was metal on metal!!! My mistake for using organics!