But hating Catholics isn't going to help.

On this point:

I don't explicitly hate Catholics, but I feel that organised religion is an immoral and cruel concept and the aforementioned stance of the Catholic Church is one clear example of why I feel this way.

It makes no sense to me why someone would keep actively supporting and lauding the figurehead of a body which has so much that is deeply wrong at the core of its belief system – there is no question that mysogny, homophobia, the concept of purgatory and the restriction of contraception/sexual protection are disgusting concepts…yet they seem to be able to be actively supported by The CC (and in fairness, many other religions) in modern society.

Would save them a lot of efort and embarrassment as well!

I'm not defending the moral stance of the church. But that stance is irrelevant. My point is that if you want to change the stance then sure beak on about it, but if you want to do something about human suffering, then find out the causes of that suffering. In this case and that of overpopulation, it doesn't look like it is because of the teachings of the catholic Church

I don't think anyone is saying its all their fault, that would be ridiculous. But potentially they could help instead of hindering, if they could pull their heads out of their arses and realise that its not the 1st century anymore

CharlieMungus – Member

That is my whole problem with your argument, it is based on belief, rather than hard evidence.
As a statement defending the catholic church, that is brilliant

You misunderstand. I am not defending the Catholic church. My engagement with this argument is that in targeting the Catholic church in our effort to combat the spread of AIDS we are misdirecting our efforts. I couldn't careless about the church, but blaming it for things which it is not responsible for, undermines valid criticisms for the bad things it does and it also means that the real causes for the spread of HIV remain addressed and the solution stays farther away.

I was being flippant – it made me laugh coming from the 'other-side' as it where. But yes, appreciate the position you are arguing and that there are other factors, but i don't think that changes the viewpoint that what the Catholic Church is doing is wrong, as stated above 🙂

I tend to believe the analysis of experts in the field of HIV and epidemiology.

That is my whole problem with your argument, it is based on belief, rather than hard evidence.

As a statement defending the catholic church, that is brilliant 🙂

But, putting that aside, i don't understand how this statement can be false:

'A reduction in condom use is likely to correlate to an increase in sexual transmissions'

Less condom use = more chance of fluid transfer = more chance of disease transmission

THUS

Catholic Church scaring people off condoms = % of people who might have otherwise used them now don't.

If a % of those people are infected, then there is a % chance that they will infect their partners.

Additionally…less condom use = greater chance of pregnancy = chance of more childbirths = increases difficulty to escape from poverty

The actual figures will be borderline impossible to ascertain, but that doesnt change the immoral nature of attempting to remove something (condoms) that could potentially massively help.

If the Catholic church was not morally bankrupt, they would be actively endorsing and encouraging condom use as it would reduce infections and unwanted pregnancies, allowing people a better way of life.

But they aren't, they are actively dicouraging it – and i can't really fathom way. There is NO good reason to do so. You can promote good ethics at the same time as sexual awareness – they go hand in hand.

Fair enough – as i said there is a lot of disinformation.

they also saw Hitler as a defender against communism which was clearly anti-religion.

However – this kind of thing and the link with thwe Church further indicates that whatever Hitler was, he was not an extreme atheist. So the pope can suck on it 🙂

lyons – Member

Leave the wombles alone!

So what was the link between the Nazis and the catholic church?

Easiest just to google about the Concordat between them. There seems to be a lot of disinformation, but it clearly shows that the Church was at the very least aware of the Nazi Party and its modus operandi and potentially aware of its intentions and was thus effectively buying itself safety at the expense of others instead of alerting the world.

Also shows that Hitler wasn't really atheistic as otherwise he wouldnt have been involved with the Church…and either way it doesnt really matter the focus is on the Catholic church for aligning with him.

The theologics of the Nazi party is a massive red herring

Basically, the current incumbent of that stupid hat is not telling the whole truth…not like him is it 😉

Old Benedict has ignored/forgotten the Catholic Churchs Concordat with the Nazi party…conveniently!

Thing is, you cant ride all-out on most natural trails as you don't know if there is someone round the corner walking up the hill.

Trail centres allow you to turn off your brain a bit and just have fun without worrying about routes or permissions or walkers/horses.

As i say, both are good 😉

Both great for different reasons

your all too anal 😉

Torminalis – Member

In my mind it is quite simple. The Pope:

Refutes the theory of evolution
Refuses to allow women into the priesthood (wonder what he makes of the Queen!)
Is against abortion for rape victims
Is against contraception even for disease prevention
Is infallible (!?!?!???!?!)

You can get all tied up for days making sophisticated arguments back and forth on how many lives the church has saved or ended but anyone who considers this man (or his church) to be a moral authority is a f*cking idiot.

You could say that was religion in general 😉

CharlieMungus – Member

I'm trying to argue, that if we keep on blaming the Pope, then we neglect to address the problem. If by some 'miracle' the church reversed its teaching on condoms we would see little change in the spread of HIV AIDS. The church is not causing the problem, we need to identify what is and address that.

I don't think we would see 'little change', but yes i basically agree

CharlieMungus – Member

The virus? Probably need some sort stem-cell research for that…

ah bugger, we are not allowed to do that either, apparently

Yeah, much easier to dismiss rather than engage isn't it. Or is that really the only other causal factor you can think of for the spread of HIV/AIDS? Even if you really concentrate?

I was blatantly being flippant. Education and moving the communities out of poverty are the big thing, but perhaps a potential immunisation process would also be beneficial.

To be honest, i have no idea what you are trying to argue 🙂

CharlieMungus – Member

Do we want to solve the problems or not?

Why not do both at the same time?

Fine, but the first step is to find the real culprit rather than focussing on the scapegoat

The virus? Probably need some sort stem-cell research for that…

ah bugger, we are not allowed to do that either, apparently

Do we want to solve the problems or not?

Why not do both at the same time?

Does the rhythm method differ from the ending of a typical porn film? 😉

TandemJeremy – Member

Mefty – do read the quotes –

its not a case of prioritising one aspect of health spending over another. its applying pressure to stop a proven harm reduction technique that is very cheap.

It's stopping a proven harm reduction technique for no discernible reason thats the issue. Seems to be mainly out of spite as there is no other reason to limit condom use

Logically, if the pope has a wet dream, does he have to quit being the pope for betraying the catholic faith?

Damn, i'd definitely go and see Billy Connolly. The pope needs more swearing , and his standup is very poor

Never understood his popularity, i don't find him funny at all. It's a bit like watching a real life version of colin hunt, and i never even found that piss-take funny either!

Daily Mash bring you the good stuff:

Queen To Have Lunch With Insane Criminal

So wouldn't it be nice if the church could support condom use and provide help to people at the same time?

You know, a logical reason, not some utter rubbish about 'every sperm is sacred'.

So until they start doing that, then yes, they are causing unneccessary suffering, because there is absolutely no need to deny condom use. Spirituality should take a back seat when the real world is concerned.

Yep 🙂

Cut it too long, but snip it at 5 mm intervals, flare the ends over so it hooks over the seat tube, whack the seatclamp over the top…it'll work fine and it wont sod off down into the tube and get stuck 🙂

http://www.triplebuttedcycling.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=665

bloody good frames for the money though!

Just makes explaning the name to the insurance company fun, especially when the other bike is an Inbred

I have a knacked Avid lever – the blade itself is fine though – compression nut sheared off inside the main housing when trying to replace the hose, rendering it buggered

Yours for postage

Tim

I've had a tubed Schwalbe cross bike tyre do this, but i think that was due to me whacking 100psi in a tyre rated to 80psi 😆

What crown are you using?

yes, but it'll flap around nicely. Shorten the chain loads 🙂

Skinwall tyres! love em!

W2 🙂

W2 is completely different to skyline – its basically just whites and the wall combined – although i havnt actually ridden skyline – just been reliably informed its a bit dull in places 🙂

Whites for the most smiles per mile. The climb up the wall is dull fireriad and Whites is nearly all singletrack. Plus it has the black run and the energy trail 🙂

Chain Reaction have always been great, unless you ask for special delivery – i think that breaks their system at their end – i've had two out of two special deliveries not turn up, but standard free delivery is ususally just as quick and eminently reliable!

chances of this being true?

limited i imagine 🙂

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slack chain in that photo 🙂

Currently stripped down but awaiting a fresh build. Lovely bike and cant wait to get it built back up

Its got to have a freewheel on the front (although it could be on the take off from the crank i guess, if you were mental 🙂

they wouldnt – chrisitni use a telecopic rod i think

hydraulic drive would make more sense

Solo – Member

Upside-down style forks ?

Made by showa are they not?

Dont look like Foes or Shivers and they aint Dorados

Thats cool

Very odd story with those bikes!

Be good to see them available, although they will be ££££, and probably quite heavy

hite rite, but still isnt 'on the fly' as you would get with a remote operated gravity dropper.

People dont seem to get that its useful for dropping the seatpost for certain sections of a trail – not the whole trail. I certainly dont feel stable being smacked in the arse by a saddle over a drop, but i dont want to get off and put the saddle back up to ride the next bit of trail as i'll lose momentum and flow

as its not driven off the back wheel…it will only be 2wd if its a 1:1 ratio?

brilliant

if it was in the uk though, i would buy that 🙂

I love the idea of a non-wet weather friendly saddle in the UK 🙂