As Grum pointed out, selling is everything in a business, something njee still fails to understand.

It's not how good someone is, it's how they sell both themsleves and their work. That's why njee will (always?) work for someone else or until he better comprehends the power of sales and marketing and applies them to his own skills set, which I'd like to add, I would never lambast on a public forum (poor form, yet again, njee).

angle that the professionals don't get

A most strange definition of "imaginative angle ".

Now I wonder why that would be?
Maybe you're new around bike events:

The professionals are either:
1) 25m ahead of the pack in a vehicle / better placed that this first shot :idea:
2) out on the trail awaiting the first riders through :idea:

A tip: photograph riders from the front as you're not ID'ing anyone from these angles (no race numbers) – ergo you won't sell any images.

You won't see the magazines picking up the tab for your day rate ever again with images like this. You need to shoot what either sells to the riders or sells the magazine. A little blunt – but best to let you down now before you dig yourself even further into the mire.

A month ago I swapped out the RRalf on my front wheel to try a Bonty XDX and was almost caught out by its fast responsiveness.

It'd be interesting to learn what the visitor to number of actual sales people are making (see my figures earlier in the post) as some events I've shot, people have bought 18×12 prints at £70 which convinced me not to sell jpegs from the outset and work on a smaller number of sales providing quality prints – just as I do in my social photography business.

This means a certain amount of admin and might from time to time lead to other sales. It also means I do occationally miss out on sales if riders want the full sized images, which is akin to buying the negatives, this runs against the grain as I see it.

This printing of my images is very satisfying from a professional perspective & I always try to have 2x remote flash units out on the trail on any given image and try never use direct flash. I need to select my locations with care based on these criteria – not always easy.

I appreciate others work selling different sized jpegs, and that there's no Right or Wrong in this, just different business plans and ideas.

TBH, the only real way to make something approaching a few bob at an event is to be officially accredited, otherwise you have to rely upon posts on a few web forums which is not good enough.

Which one and which month?
Any thoughts

Again, it's work that will barely cover the mortgage. If it was, the specialist photographers would be VAT registered; you’re barely making a living selling various sized jpegs for well under £20 at mtn biking events.

As regards copyright, no advertiser / client will touch any copy without the relevant model releases, unless they think they can get away with it, and here I’m thinking about the Press Complaints procedure or a civil prosecution, which is slightly off-topic.

Thought they were 100mm, mine is from 05.

What you'll find, increasingly, is that the main events, let's use Mayhem as an exaple, attracts many photographers.

YOu'll have one sanctioned by the event organisers (will they even be a professional photographer this year?)and one probably working for Original Source, but the rest, of whom there will be many, will have no profit in mind; it's just for the pleasure of it that they're there.

One week after Mayhem, Flickr will be awash with images, some good, some awful; most everything will be free. That's why the professionals have all but deserted the main events unless they're being paid to be there or they're going to earn something 1/2 worthwhile from their work, which at Mayhem, they won't.

As I say, taking mtn biking images to sell to the general public is not quite the retirement plan your book keeper had in mind! And we haven't even touched on prices and goods that you can offer to riders.

Shot for a 5 page magazine article about the Kielder 100 in September.

I would also add that the road photographers IMHO have a harder job.
At least I can lay out all manner of lights to make both the rider and the surrounding trail look interesting, add some mud and you have, to my mind, a slightly easier job of photographing riders.

If only I could learn to take good pictures that sell! :wink:

Night time image above was at Clic24 – see this month's MBUK for the full 5 page spread.

The ones I like are oft' not the ones that sell!

I used the Clic24 to illustrate a point, in the woods you can get a little more creative and produce some more dramatic images – hopefully, but the Mendips course is very spread out and rather open in nature.

This was taken at the BORS, which has attracted a reasonably high number of sales, illustrating the earlier point that it's the newer rider who purchases the images.

In this series of images taken on this corner, I've attempted to creatate a sense of depth and perspective, partly by positioning myself on a hill top on a bend but with the use of out of focus riders and a 200mm lens. YOu wait for 10 minutes and 5 riders all appear at the same time! You guys, spread out so I can better take each of you in turn (it's not a circuit but 4 Merida style distances up to 121km).

One to sooth your furrowed brow and help dissipate your feelings of disappointment.

Sorry – of the 24 images taken by me and used in the article, none are of KingTut.
My humble apologies KT.

I don't think your picture made the magazine.
Sorry!
I'll have a look later.
I used it to illustrate on another STW thread as you were chatting about a.n.other image you liked of yourself on so I used it in my reply elsewhere, although on reflection, it reads as though your image is in the magazine.

One thing that's been mentioned here is that financially, the best events are those that attract a new crowd, it's rare to be selling images to the same racers weekend in, weekend out, all season long.

Personally, I try and sustain the professional photographers by buying their images, but that's my own personal take.

As a professional photographer there are some givens, but one being that you need to be producing images that sell.
Or you have no business.

One way to have images that sell is to produce more interesting images than the competition.

A few images here are no more than snaps, that much is obvious & I'm sure the photograpgers who took would agree, it’s something we can pretty much all do, regardless of training and experience. That doesn’t de-value them in the eyes of the rider or for that matter the photographer. KingTut’s first picture was just one such example, it's his favourite picture but technically it's no more than a snap but as a professional, it's not an image I'd personally have been looking to take.

As riders, you will know from competing in these events that off-board flash units are pretty much a given now-a-days, you only need look at the magazines to better appreciate what I’m talking about, but if you are in any doubt, look at the bike and rider’s shadows and where they fall.

When you’re out on the trails and hill sides for hours at a time taking pictures, if your only master is selling images to the riders then you have a simplified brief; whereas if it’s the race organisers, magazine or the charity (?) or any other 3rd party, they you need a good spread if images from the event, not just a many images taken of a few corners / bomb holes / corners.

These were used in one of this month's magazines:

The best sellers are where there's a little "action".

Apart from the night-time shot, all others were at Clic24 2010. I have many others from events, but I think it serves to illustrate what I'm talking about (I hope!). I had three masters at the event, you the riders, the magazine and the race organisers who want images they can use for PR & marketing. You try and satisfy all 3 over the course of 24hrs as best you can.

I've had 2261 visitors and 25 orders from the Clic event, ergo, you're never going to make enough to retire on, so never give up that day job!

Are you having a 2nd person count the RPM?

Surely, flat out, you have no energy or even time to be counting – unless the bike or machine you're riding does it for you.

that 220-age thing is rubbish, I once hit 234 when I was 16 :-p

Sweeping statement of the day!
It's a simple formula that was arrived at by more educated and experienced men than you or I.

The fact that many people won't fit this formula is no surprise but for you to rubbish it is both naive and wrong.

Personally, I'm living proof that it is bang-on the money, the fact is that for you it doesn't actually tally with your own experiences, which in turn this means that your above statement should really have been more informed & better judged.

220 minus my age is the most I've ever seen (ish)
I saw 181 a couple of times, aged 43, whilst out on the bike.

Can you can reach a higher HR on a static bike than riding out on the road / trails?

Never more than one ! mark. Ditto ? marks.
Looks childish otherwise.
I'd avoid all exclamation marks TBH.
Too (above)is incorrectly spelt – so if you're going to add text anywhere, you'd best up your own game and at least run everything through Word.
"I" wants to be a capital too.

Stay away from any silly childish humour, it appears in your post about the naked audience, but don't let this spill into your presentation as if they're Doctors etc they are by definition pretty much Grade A students and will tire of your humour straight away, ergo pitch it at their level.

I suggest you get some lighter, faster rolling tyres, 2.1 RRalfs or some such and practise on them. Tubeless is a sensible way forward IMHO.

I'd say the Orange is a tad over biked, but if it's what you have, don't fret about it.

It's the eqivalent of the M25 to Nottingham, or the M25 to Bristol, off road, so don't think that a bit of fire road will see you make up time, you need to be fast everywhere. I predict 300+ riders failing this year, so don't get stuck at the back with no way of getting through the pack or you'll be black-flagged at 50 miles and sent back to the Castle of Shame, your race over.

An example

Rememebr – Mineral water, none of this tap water rubbish

Last I read, tap water was a superior water to some, if not all bottled water. And it's free.

Good example of some of the poor advice being banded about here, not to buy bottled water, also, there's some ongoing disquiet about the toxins produced by the plastics in the bottle when they're heated up, ie in sunlight etc.

Eat 3 square meals, have healthy snacks between

Just how much food are you guys getting through?
The above above reply started off OK but descending into extremes, which is not balanced.

Whatever you do at present is not working and has not been working for a long time. Radical steps might be needed to get you to seriously turn your own feeding on its proverbial head. Adopting a softly-softly approach is taking the easy route and will fail. However, you need to be able to sustain whatever life-style changes you do make, so be educated about the changes you do put into force if it's going to succeed.

Good luck!
(ps – for my bbq breakfast I had 2x pork chops, mushrooms, a chicken breast, olives, onions, beetroot and some salad with cashews – but I haven't eaten since about 2pm yesterday).

Strange that some of you guys simply don't seem to have experimented with your own feeding and bodies!
Maybe you're all 21yr old judging by some of the stuff written here.

I never eat after 5pm if I can help it, wife's tale or not, it works for me.
I eat a mix of carbs and proteins and it works for me.

If you're looking at dropping weight or putting weight on, don't combine carbs and proteins at the same meal, it's worked for me.

See a pattern forming here?
What works for one might not work so well for another. Keep the blood sugar levels steady and cut down on portion sizes, cut out the crap you eat and drink. This is not rocket science you know, if you ingest 1500 calories but use up 1800 calories, you'll slowly shift the fat.

Throw the first punch and follow it through with another (few). The run like Hell.

It's not your business so leave well alone. If you choose to make it your business you'd better know what you're doing & talking about & be prepared for the very long haul or he'll see you as someone else failing him and that will make you No1 target for when he gets his shot gun license.

Try a real back-bone & not the plastic one you're using at present. :wink:

Get used to being peckish. Don't eat after 5pm.
No alcohol (obviously). Cravings tend to last 20-30 minutes, so snack on carrots, celery – that kind of thing & drink lots of water. If you food shop, then don't buy high fat / energy stuff meaning you won't eat it. Throw out what quick food you have so you are forced to plan meals better & start cooking properly. Avoid all bread.

Alcohol and tobacco are both appetite supressents.

LEVEL 2, what it teaches

This is just how STW used to be, without all the unpleasantness!

If it helps, there's a m/cycle skills company I used to use. Their most popular course was level 2 of 5 levels. Riders each year would re-do level 2, a sort of back to basics and how and where to look course.

like what i got now a 30lbs 6 inch bike.

Maybe having a huge bike with 6 inches of travel is not quite the way forwards!
Something with 4 inches and 5lbs lighter might help you with your fitness as you'll be more inclined to get out and rig-it with guys who you know to be faster and more trail competent.
I wonder, by having this millstone between your thighs is a way of not getting out and practising all that you’ve learnt.
Just one take on it.

You state you like the endurance rides, but a 30lb bike with 6 inches of travel….. I’m struggling to think of a single endurance event that would warrant this sort of bike.

More details please.

You say you like the endurance aspect, so are you booked in to Mayhem, Sleepless, Kielder 100 and all points in between?
Maybe pairs race the 24hr at Bonty?

Might put some spring in your step if you have a specific event in mind and that will focus your training and increase your fitness levels & prevent you worrying about how to improve as it sounds like you've exhausted the other options!

The other thing about the courses is that unless you go away and practise the skills being taught, and keep practising them, simply attending these days is a little pointless.

Depending on your budget, you can employ a coach. A pal of mine had an on-line coach for her Iron Man bid to great effect.

I rode a Turner Flux which is a 26er FYI.

I also gather it's jammed packed pretty much most of the time now, so you have to choose your ride-time carefully; but you're right, I did not get on with this trail at all.

Switch backs work fine, but in moderation, such as at Dalby where it doesn't seem like every 5 minutes all you're treated to is another bank where they ran out of ideas and added yet more switch-backs. I realise this might sound somewhat harsh, but I did get tired of yet another hill with yet more of the same.

I realise this is very much agaist the current perception of this trail which most do seem to like.

5ft 2 rider on a 29er leads the World Championships.

Once a Village idiot, always a village idiot I guess & I wonder if SSStu (as always, the negative man on STW) manages his ADHAD to cope with this post?!

Anyhow, the OP asked if 29ers are quicker, so bringing the post back-on-track….

“We’re really excited about Willow’s accomplishments, and stoked that she’s proving the advantages of 29ers on the global circuit,” Remarked Travis Ott, Global Brand Manager at Fisher Bikes. “This successfully debunks any skepticism that 29ers are not suited for World Cup level racing. It also should clear up any confusion that 29ers are only for tall riders.”

Tedious switch-backs, they must have bought a job lot of them and dumped them on every slope on the Monkey Trail.

That's not very scientific. Road bikes are faster on-road than mountain bikes, but does that make them faster off-road too?

If, in riding on the road, the 29er is always 1.5mph (or thereabouts) faster than the 26er, again ridden on the road, on the same route each time, with the same RRalf tyres (as stated in the previous post) then just how scientific does it need to be?! It’s simply a faster bike.

The OP asked a simple enough question, after all, & so all we're doing is taking the time to answer with real-world answers, it's no more complex than that. If, on the back of such anecdotes, people still don't really appreciate that there might be a speed difference, or simply accept the perceived wisdom circa >2008 (originally concluded by some of the bike magazines who are even now notoriously unsure of the whole 29er thang) then no amount of column inches are going to sway the way some people think.

TBH, there’s only one sure-fire way to find out for oneself if, on the trails you enjoy, a 29er would be quicker and that’s to get hold of one; unless you’re happy being told what to think and act, that is; it seems to me that enough riders & virtually every mainstream and independent manufacturer has voted with their design & production & also wallets for to me to conclude that there’s something in this big-wheeler evolution.

Probably prophetic at this point to mention adding a mobile phone to your ride kit list, now you've said you never come across others on your trails!

Damaged my AC joint some 6 years ago (the clavicle did not snap, but the joint impacted into itself), and still can not bear weight on my shoulders, such as people putting arms around me or having a child shoulder piggy back.

If anyone wants to bail & sell on their solo ride at MM, let me know.
Rode the 24 Solo championships in May as my 1st solo event & whilst it was tough, I did sleep for 2hrs. I'd like to address this and ride the full amount and get my fitness back up where it should have been for the May event.

Email me if you can't make it.

Thanks for the tip. The front has been done, now the rear needs the work doing, that's how I know about the tool.

Again, you're failing to answer the question: are 29ers quicker?
Yes, on the road I can tell you they are and then exprapolate this off road, it's not rocket science!

As for if this matters? Strewth, I'm answering the question, not debating if you wish to be slow off road if you don't race Dave2. And here we go again with that ignorant line about height…. Just answer the question, if you have any information worth adding! :idea:

(leaves to go for a ride)