WTF!

This has cheapened the perceived qudos of my Chameleon now. They have sold out. I don’t even know what Supreme is. 😳

Good job I’ve ordered one of those new RC 627s

Great stuff. 👍

I had a Solaris Max V1, a Sonder Transmitter, and now a Chameleon.

They are all great.

Its the bikes fit to your body, riding style and environment that is the most important to how a bike rides.

I just built a 2019 up as a warranty replacement. It’s basically the same except that they have changed the seat tube insertion depth for no apparent reason.

The 2018 model could take my 150mm Fox Transfer fully inserted.

The 2019 has a maximum insertion depth of 225mm

I had to buy a 125mm dropper to replace my 150mm because it wouldn’t fit ☹️

Thanks for the replies.

I have a Chameleon with 27.5+ dropouts and both 29 and 27.5+ wheels. I know you can get 29er dropouts that are 8mm lower so you can tune it to a specific wheel size but I haven’t bothered.

I was just looking at how similar the geo of the new Pace RC627 is to my Chameleon in the XL size. But the Pace is designed around 2.6 and a 44mm offset fork and my Chameleon is designed as a 29er to use a 51mm offset fork.

I much prefer the plus wheels over the 29s so I wondered if there would be a noticeable difference between fork offsets.

Maybe my question should have been which fork offset is best for 2.6-2.8 27.5 wheels?

What would be the standard crank length to be used with these new skool long low slack badgers? It used to be 175mm. Should we be switching to 165 to avoid pedal strikes?

Santa Cruz Chameleon.

Has anyone got a pic of a XL built up?

I have just got some Oury lock ons to try. They are big and the rubber is soft.

The chainstays on the SC Chameleon are 415mm.

Ok so they need moving back a couple of mm to fit the 29er wheels in but its still around 420mm.

It doesn’t feel unbalanced on my xl frame which is quite long.

The new Pace RC 627 geo looks very close to the Cotic Soul/Solaris Max longshot numbers. But the chainstays are 425mm which will keep it lively.

I’m Interested to see the geo of the RC 629 when the reveal it.

Cool cheers

6 Ft 2 rider

110mm head tube

internal headset

30mm of spacers

50mm rise Spank Spike bars

I want to try my bikes bars another 1-2 cm higher  (this years frame has been updated with 1cm more on the headtube)

Head tubes on different brands frames vary so much.

A Stanton Slackline 19.5 inch frame has a 140mm head tube and it takes an external bottom cup so thats another 10mm

A Santa Cruz Chameleon XL mk7 frame has a 110mm head tube with an intergrated headset

Both bikes are for roughly the same size rider but there is a 50mm difference in bar height.

Most manufacturers seem to adjust the seat tube and the length of their frames  a good deal but only adjust the head tubes a tiny amount. I’m wondering if the larger frame headtubes should increase in proportion with the other dimensions.

I bought one of the first Transmitters and they were excellent to deal with. Neil went above and beyond to answer all my questions.

Panic over. 😊

Sorry wrong section lol

Got to wait till 9.am. Madness

No I need to use one 😳

Cool cheers Hatter

Thanks All,

I ordered the one somafunk linked.

I’m running –

27.5+ with 2.8s and 29 with 2.5s on my Chameleon. Both are great, I just pick the set that best fits the conditions, ride, terrain etc.

Plus is my favourite, but 29 is faster when I’m out with the xc/roady boys.

There cheap on Amazon so I’m giving them a try.

Done

Thanks the Dark Night. I was just making sure. 😊

Whats the thinking with 27.5+ at the back and 29 up front? It sounds like less grip and harder to turn?

I’m still liking 27.5+. I just love the grip  with a DHF on the front and HR2 on the back.

I have a SC Chameleon with 2 sets of wheels. I enjoy riding it with both sizes but prefer 27.5+. Its great having the choice especially with the difference in conditions between summer and winter.

I have a 120mm airshaft for the 29er Rhythms if anyone wants to shorten their travel

I’m running 2.4 High Rollers on mine with 26mm internal rims and its great. The Transmitter isn’t a plus bike at all itsa 27.5 hardcore hardtail. 😊

@Mick_r

It was Cy himself who mentioned the extra weight on the PinkBike comments section after someone else asked why the long stays.

I’ve had 4 Cotics over the years and they have all been brilliant. I loved the last Solaris Max and the new one looks even better. I wouldn’t mind trading extra weight for easier cornering.

@Brassneck

Geo is size dependant. The xl Chameleon reach is still longer than the large Solaris. These two are closer than comparing xl to xl due to the SC being crazy low. As these are the size frames that fit me I’ve only really looked at their numbers other sizes might differ.  The new Solaris has a 1.5 degree slacker head angle. As I am running 140mm forks, the Chameleon feels slack enough but I’d love to see what it would be like 1.5 degrees slacker. My Sonder transmitter had a 65 degree head angle and it felt a bit floppy at low speeds. It was good downhill at speed.

SC have a lifetime warranty on the frames so if the dropouts crack hopefully they will honour it. I saw one on the web that had cracked because the bolts hadn’t been tightened correctly. Hope it’s not a thing.

I’m loving the sparkly black Solaris frame, if only they had made the stays shorter then I’d be keen. As I understand it, you have to add even considerable weight to a steel frame if you bend the seat tube to make room for shorter stays. So its a trade off, handling vs weight.

I’ll probably still buy one but it will be the next version with the super boost back end. :-)

I’m on Deity Tmacs are they are super grippy

https://www.deitycomponents.com/tmac-signature-pedals.html

Heres some thoughts on the Solaris Max and the Chameleon. I’ve had both. I know the new Long Shot version is longer geo and has a tougher down tube but I’m guessing it will feel very similar to the 2017 Solaris Max.

Having ridden both bikes I can say that they are both great and you wouldn’t be disappointed in either. The new Long Shot geo looks very similar to the Chameleons. I rode a large Solaris Max with a 60mm stem and now have a XL Chameleon with a 35mm stem.  The Chameleon is still a bit longer but Cy is right about the 35mm stem improving the handling.

Both bikes feel quite similar on the trail, the solaris feels slightly softer but has more zing in its spring. If you drop the hammer on dry trails it just takes off like a rocket. The Chameleon is very forgiving and you could almost forget it is an aluminium frame. However, the lateral stiffness is better than the cotics which feels more stable overall but slightly less alive. On balance I prefered the feel of the cotic with 29er wheels and the SC with 27.5+. I rode both frames with the two different wheel sizes.

Another thing worth thinking about if you are choosing between these two bikes is the type of riding you like to do. If you keep your wheels on the ground and don’t do a lot of drop offs then the Solaris could be a good choice and It also climbs the best.

Where as, the Chameleon is easier to jump off stuff on because it has a shorter rear end. I noticed this a lot when I switched from a Sonder Transmitter with shortish stays to the Solaris with longer ones. The usual jumps and drop offs of my local trails felt different and less controlled with the longer Cotic. Moving to the Chameleon, with short stays again, made negotiating the same trail features feel more controlled.

I remember riding the flat twisty, bermy bit in the middle of Swinley on the Solaris and it felt vague. I did the same section 4 weeks latter on the Chameleon with the same exact parts except for a 35mm stem not a 60mm. I was amazed at how the Chameleon railed through the corners and how much control I had.

I don’t think I could recommend one frame over the other, they are both excellent. For my style of riding and my body shape the Chameleon is better for me but its not a better bike. Hope that makes some sort of sense.

@Metalheart

I’m on the 2018 Chameleon with 27.5+ wheels and I’m running the dropouts all the way in at 415mm :-)

Admittedly, I did move them out a bit to run my 29er 2.5 wheels in the winter.

I’ll be interested to know to reason for the long stays on the Solaris Max

The geo looks good. I had one of the Solaris Maxs from last year and it was great but too short. I’m on a SC Chameleon now which is awesome.

The Solaris chain stays are still too long on this update. I found a huge improvement in cornering when I switched to the Chameleon with 415mm chainstays.

Answer protaper bars go up to 76mm rise if you want more height.

The transmitter has 78mm of clearance at the chainstay. The NN is 72mm wide on a 45mm inner width rim.

I ran them for a while on mine but it was too close to give enough mud clearance. I’d go for 2.6.

Cheers

Its out now, as is the second one I lost in there lol.

Alloy nipples are stupid

DT swiss torque alloy nipples are very stupid as you have to buy yet another tool.

Straight pull spokes are also rubbish.

New normal brass nipples now fitted

Hot it out now. Doh

Standard 68/73mm BB and Boost cranks. I’m running SLX.

Your size has an effect on how any bike rides, including plus bikes. They rarely mention that in reviews.

If you are over 6 foot then it will feel in scale with you and ride pretty normally.

If you are smaller and lighter maybe a 27.5 with 2.6s will be more appropriate.