Even better SpokesCycles – I'll nip round the LBS, pop up to my mates and swap it for beers!

Cheers, TBH i told him that you couldn't. Might be easier for him to just buy a new chain.

cinnamon_girl – Member
Guys, you just don't get it, do you?

What do you suggest then?

TJ – I mostly agree with you. My interpretation of the Cochrane SR is that helmets do reduce the severity of head injuries. However I don't believe all the "I'd have a fractured skull if I didn't have a lid on" anecdotes, because you simply don't know.

Also interestingly the SR's I've read show no reduction in head injuries in countries with compulsion – although I know this is slightly OT.

I wear a helmet most of the time, but I get pretty annoyed by people insisting you must wear one, when really its got nothing to do with them, and they're basing their insistance on feelings, not fact.

I don’t really get the TJ bashing that goes on with this (well, I do a bit coz he doesn’t always come across very well).
But I think some of his basic points are valid – “I crashed and would be dead if I didn’t have my helmet on” – you don’t know this is true.
Common sense might say it is, but common sense isn’t evidence.
Linking to individual peer reviewed articles doesn’t count as evidence either.
I suggest you have a look at evidence based practice and systematic reviews, the CEBM site explains the background quite well.
Cochrane review says’ they’re good by the way:
Helmets for preventing head and facial injuries in bicyclists

Diane C Thompson2, Fred Rivara1, Robert Thompson3

Abstract
Background
Each year, in the United States, approximately 900 persons die from injuries due to bicycle crashes and over 500,000 persons are treated in emergency departments. Head injury is by far the greatest risk posed to bicyclists, comprising one-third of emergency department visits, two-thirds of hospital admissions, and three-fourths of deaths. Facial injuries to cyclists occur at a rate nearly identical to that of head injuries. Although it makes inherent sense that helmets would be protective against head injury, establishing the real-world effectiveness of helmets is important.
Objectives
To determine whether bicycle helmets reduce head, brain and facial injury for bicyclists of all ages involved in a bicycle crash or fall.
Search strategy
We searched CENTRAL, MEDLINE, EMBASE, Sport, ERIC, NTIS, Expanded Academic Index, CINAHL, PsycINFO, Occupational Safety and Health, and Dissertations Abstracts. We checked reference lists of past reviews and review articles, studies from government agencies in the United States, Europe and Australia, and contacted colleagues from the International Society for Child and Adolescent Injury Prevention, World Injury Network, CDC-funded Injury Control and Research Centers, and staff in injury research agencies around the world. The searches were last updated in November 2006.
Selection criteria
Controlled studies that evaluated the effect of helmet use in a population of bicyclists who had experienced a crash. We required studies to have complete outcome ascertainment, accurate exposure measurement, appropriate selection of the comparison group and elimination or control of factors such as selection bias, observation bias and confounding.
Data collection and analysis
Two authors independently extracted data. Odds ratios with 95% confidence intervals were calculated for the protective effect of helmets for head and facial injuries. Study results are presented individually. Head and brain injury results were also summarized using meta-analysis techniques.
Main results
We found no randomized controlled trials, but five well conducted case-control studies met our inclusion criteria. Helmets provide a 63 to 88% reduction in the risk of head, brain and severe brain injury for all ages of bicyclists. Helmets provide equal levels of protection for crashes involving motor vehicles (69%) and crashes from all other causes (68%). Injuries to the upper and mid facial areas are reduced 65%.
Authors' conclusions
Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries for bicyclists of all ages involved in all types of crashes, including those involving motor vehicles. Our response to comments from critics are presented in the Feedback section.
________________________________________

Plain language summary

Wearing a helmet dramatically reduces the risk of head and facial injuries for bicyclists involved in a crash, even if it involves a motor vehicle
Cycling is a healthy and popular activity for people of all ages. Crashes involving bicyclists are, however, common and often involve motor vehicles. Head injuries are responsible for around three-quarters of deaths among bicyclists involved in crashes. Facial injuries are also common. The review found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head or brain injury by approximately two-thirds or more, regardless of whether the crash involved a motor vehicle. Injuries to the mid and upper face were also markedly reduced, although helmets did not prevent lower facial injuries.

Just to join in the copy'n'pate journal abstract:

Mountain biking injuries requiring trauma center admission: a 10-year regional trauma system experience
Author(s): Kim P.T., Jangra D., Ritchie A.H., Lower M.E., Kasic S., Brown D.R., Baldwin G.A., Simons R.K.

Citation: The Journal of trauma, February 2006, vol./is. 60/2(312-318), 0022-5282 (Feb 2006)

Publication Date: February 2006

Abstract: BACKGROUND: Mountain biking has become an increasingly popular recreational and competitive sport with increasingly recognized risks. The purpose of this study was to review a population based approach to serious injuries requiring trauma center admission related to mountain biking, identify trends and develop directions for related injury prevention programs. METHODS: Three trauma centers in the Greater Vancouver area exclusively serve a major mountain bike park and the North Shore Mountains biking trails. The Trauma Registries and the patient charts were reviewed for mountain bike injuries from 1992 to 2002. The data were analyzed according to demographics, distribution, and severity of injuries, and need for operative intervention. Findings were reviewed with injury prevention experts and regional and national mountain-biking stakeholders to provide direction to injury prevention programs. RESULTS: A total of 1,037 patients were identified as having bicycling-related injuries. Of these, 399 patients sustained 1,092 injuries while mountain biking. There was a threefold increase in the incidence of mountain biking injuries over a 10-year period. Young males were most commonly affected. Orthopedic injuries were most common (46.5%) followed by head (12.2%), spine (12%), chest (10.3%), facial (10.2%), abdominal (5.4%), genitourinary (2.2%), and neck injuries (1%). High operative rate was observed: 38% of injuries and 66% of patients required surgery. One patient died from his injuries. Injury prevention programs were developed and successfully engaged the target population. CONCLUSION: Mountain biking is a growing cause of serious injuries. Young males are principally at risk and serious injuries result from intended activity and despite protective equipment. Injury prevention programs were developed to address these concerns.

Looking at the bold bit, there's the same incidence of spinal injury, but not many people wear back protectors?

How about Jane has stomach cancer and needs treatment and BT use this to highlight the plight of people who are ill or terminally ill and perhaps they could consider donating some of their 1.6 billion of profits to a cancer charity in UK! Unfortunately not everything in life is as rosy as these ads make out! Stepchildren and ex husbands all happy with the new split family arrangements!

Has there been a drop in traffic at STW as you lot all go and post on the BT site?

All wrong.

It's because it's acid rain so it burns little holes through the tyre and/or tube.

HTH

Might be some nutters, sorry, I mean climate change denial-ists for you to follow up here

Surf-Mat – Member

I don't think "member" is an instruction, mate.

Dunno. Well old?

Ooops!

Still it is the BS thread, not the spellin and gramma won.

Have they started over here?

Mumsnet troll?

If you came belting down a singletrack footpath at my family, you certainly wouldn't be jumping back up at me. You most definately be staining your lycra

What are you going to do when the cyclist is a fellow 'roid raging nutter and wraps a D lock round your head?

What's your family going to say then eh?

Not going to look so hard then are you.

Please think of the children.

Buy another pneumo if you like it?

And are we currently supposed to be quoting peer reviewed whatever or have we switched back to anecdotal mode?

Dunno. This peer reviewed article says that peer review is biased.

Systemic bias in peer Review: Suggested causes, potential remedies
Author(s): Kadar N.

Citation: Journal of Laparoendoscopic and Advanced Surgical Techniques, March 2010, vol./is. 20/2(123-128), 1092-6429;1557-9034 (01 Mar 2010)

Publication Date: March 2010

Abstract: Objective: The aim of this study was to determine if peer review conducted under real-world conditions is systematically biased. Study Design: A repeated-measures design was effectively created when two board-certified obstetrician-gynecologists reviewed the same 26 medical records of patients treated by the same physician, and provided written evaluations of each case and a summary of their criticisms. The reviews were conducted independently for two different, unaffiliated hospitals. Neither reviewer was aware of the other's review, and neither was affiliated with either hospital or knew the physician under review. This study reports the degree of agreement between the two reviewers over the care rendered to these 26 patients. Results: Three of the 26 cases reviewed had complications. Both reviewers criticized these cases, but criticized 2 of them for different reasons. At least one of the reviewers criticized 14 (61%) of the 23 uncomplicated cases, about which no quality concerns had been raised prior to the review. With one exception, they criticized completely different cases and criticized this 1 case for different reasons. Thus, only 4 of the 17 cases criticized by at least one of the reviewers were criticized by both of them, and only 1 of the 4 cases were criticized for the same reason. The Kappa statistic was -0.024, indicating no agreement between the reviewers (P=0.98). Conclusions: As presently conducted, peer review can be systematically biased even when conducted independently by external reviewers.

So how about stretch it until you hear a snap, then stop?

Swap golf for mountain biking in the following article:

Opinion: Who do you think you are?
Author(s): Old, John

Citation: International Journal of Sports Marketing & Sponsorship, April 2008, vol./is. 9/3(162), 1464-6668 (Apr 2008)

Publication Date: April 2008

Abstract: It has often been suggested that the reason why many people take up golf in middle age is because it is the one sport where you can still entertain the delusion of being in possession of a rare, if untrained, talent that, if properly nurtured, or simply discovered, could lead to competition at the highest level.

The effect of stretching on sports performance and the risk of sports injury: A review of the literature
Author(s): Gremion G.

Citation: Schweizerische Zeitschrift fur Sportmedizin und Sporttraumatologie, 2005, vol./is. 53/1(6-10), 1422-0644 (2005)

Publication Date: 2005

Abstract: It is generally accepted that increasing the flexibility of a muscle-tendon unit allows a better performance and decreases the number of injuries. Stretching is regularly included in warm-up and in cooling-down exercises. However, contradictory findings have been reported in the literature. Since 1980, several authors have suggested that stretching has a beneficial effect on injury prevention. In contrast, since 1990, clinical evidence suggests that stretching not only does not prevent injuries, but can also decrease the level of performance. Some part of these contradictions can be explained by the various sports activities and the eclectic group of athletes studied. Sports activities requesting an increased flexibility, such as gymnastic, dancing, ice skating or diving, necessitate pre-exercise stretching to optimize the level of performance. In contrary, for sports with slow stretch-shortening cycle (SSC) such as jogging or cycling, there is no scientific data showing a positive effect of stretching on performance, injury prevention and recovery. On the basis of the literature this article reviews the interest of the pre- and post-exercise stretching on the different modalities such as range of motion improvement, injury prevention and capacity of recovery.

How is running a 40m sprint in rugby gear comparable to riding 2 hours through twisty singletrack?

I like a bit of a stretch before I get on that jumps and that. Always feel a bit more flexible afterwards.

The argument against static stretching before sport and physical activity
Author(s): Kovacs M.S.

Citation: Athletic Therapy Today, May 2006, vol./is. 11/3(6-8), 1078-7895 (May 2006)

Publication Date: May 2006

Abstract: Static stretching has been used as a warm-up activity for decades, without any credible research to support its benefits for performance or injury prevention. Static stretching before activity reduces performance in strength, speed, and power activities. Static stretching before activity does not appear to reduce injury.

Wouldnt bother with pre ride stretching:

Warm-up or stretch as preparation for sprint performance?
Author(s): Stewart M., Adams R., Alonso A., Van Koesveld B., Campbell S.

Citation: Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport, December 2007, vol./is. 10/6(403-410), 1440-2440 (Dec 2007)

Publication Date: December 2007

Abstract: Warm-up and stretching are widely used as techniques in preparation for intense physical activity, yet there is little information available to compare their effectiveness in relation to athletic performance. Fourteen elite Under-19 year old rugby league footballers undertook each of four preparation protocols (no preparation, stretching only, warm-up only, warm-up and stretching) in four successive testing sessions. Protocols were randomly allocated to players in a counterbalanced design so that each type of preparation occurred equally on each day of testing. During each session, athletes performed three solo sprint trials at maximum speed. Sprints were of 40-m distance and were electronically timed with wind speed and direction recorded. Preparation involving warm-up resulted in significantly faster sprint times compared to preparations having no warm-up, with a diminishing effect over the three trials. On the first trial, warm-up resulted in a mean advantage of 0.97 m over 40 m. Stretching resulted in a mean disadvantage of 0.18 m on the first trial, and no significant effect overall despite significant wind assistance. Warm-up was effective at improving immediate sprint performance, whereas an equivalent duration of lower limb stretching had no effect.

My pleasure CK.

Yes it is the i phone 4th gen but you should right gen if that's what you mean!

You should write "write" if that's what you mean.

Looks like its been reccomended for a while:

Journal of Hospital Infection, Jan 2006
Laundering of hospital staff uniforms at home

Few hospitals now launder staff uniforms. Staff are expected to use their own domestic machines, most of which run with 40 degrees C cycles. However, there is little information on the effectiveness of home laundering. This study demonstrates that domestic washing machines reduce viable counts of Staphylococcus aureus to below detectable levels from an inoculum of 10(8)-10(12) colony-forming units (>or=10(6)-fold reduction), even using low temperature (40 degrees C) programmes. Environmental organisms, predominantly Gram-negative flora, were introduced from the machine itself but were destroyed by tumble drying or ironing. Domestic laundering of uniforms is an acceptable alternative to hospital laundering if combined with tumble drying or ironing

Tried again last night, didn't work.

Guess I'll keep trying :|

You might be right about the bed being too soft Sharki, but I reckon part of it must be psychological.

A dose of SleepTFU needed :(

From GrahamS's link:

The research also found that most people are unlikely to change their sleeping position.

Still going to try. Hopefully without the Pik n Mix pill approach.

Wow, is it that dangerous? Should I just put up with the backache?

I guess I'll stick it out and risk it.

Don't worry about trying to make the poster look too good, and don't take any notice of the "designers" coz they wouldn't understand the point of a scientific poster.

Also, no one will look at it anyway, they only have them for people who are too boring to present something, or if its not good enough to be published in a journal.

HTH

[/quote]That one from N Dubz

oOOF, me :oops: too.b Exatly the type of dodgy bird.

I lived round the corner from C Decker. This left an impression.

I'm diabetic.

To apreciate the great taste of (any) cola, I have to drink the sugar free version. Coke Zero and pepsi max taste a bit like proper pop.

How's that fit into the fatty/poofter allocation?

Porridge. True story.

Pretty impressed with Dan Biggar, and Super Shane – can't let him retire ever!

yep, teachers should get paid more, I agree.

But, and I admit I could be wrong here, this isn't public sector gorn mad is it? Isn't it the school deciding what budget they have available to pay for this post, rather than some union demanding higher wages for PA's?

And some job's just pay more. I've got a job in a hospital, and a post-grad qualification is essential. But I get paid less than a bin man. But there's less demand for my job, so they can offer a lower wage.

I reckon the public sector is applying market forces on the sly.

Tyres on the wrong way = incapable of negotiating switchbacks on man made trails.

Or so I've heard.

Wow, are you really as sanctimonious and high-handed as that makes you sound?

from previous experience on here and BikeMagic, yes he is.

"move because I'm not stopping"Great idea.

Shotgun – you'll need some personal protection.

Condoms. Again, you'll need some personal protection.

why would it do that?

Bit of panic braking amd the cranks stop, your legs don't, pedals in the shin?

Although if your using disco slippers I guess this wouldn't happen, I forget that some people like being screwed to their bike!

I am at present, still not with meaningfull employmen

Ah right, sorry, not trying to have a dig. You seem to be putting a lot of effort into arguing. If you don't mind me asking, why does religion seem to wind you up so much? Is it something you really hate, or is it just an interesting argument? Again, not trying to wind you up, just wondered?

Personally there's lots of stuff associated with religion that is pretty offensive to me. Equally with non-religious groups. So may be it's just bloody people in groups.