Coming from Liverpool I always wondered what the fuss was about and they seemed a bit bland when I was younger. Partly I am sure because I didnt want to part of the herd!

Now I am older I listen to their music and think they were truly innovative. They are still not my favourite band (listen more to Jazz) but I see now how great they where. Except for Ringo of course whose a to**er.

To hear one of the groups on X factor compared to them is comical given they couldnt sing, play an instrument or write a song!

I/m no expert but I think your estimate of MPG lost is too conservative. I have a roof box which I remove when not in use and the MPG dips a lot more than that.

Cloud 9 in Congleton, not a “proper” fell race but only “off road” photo I can find.
If you can stay in front of Janet McIver you are doing well indeed!!

Good luck with the shin, plenty of ice and massage.

Finbar

Me too!

She loves the Tax man, couldnt eat a whole one though!

Ditto Kingofbiscuits, when we were there we spent a few days on Skopelos with friends as well as getting a boat across to the mainland and bussing it to Delphi for the day and spent a few days in Athens. Even ran round the original track and enjoyed a concert in the Ampitheatre.
Agree ref the scooter and secluded beaches.

Starting to get nostalgic now!

Spend 3 weeks in Skiathos a few years ago on my honeymoon. It was great!

Bit later in the year though.

If it wasnt the police who would do that?

If they used the flashy lights as a way of pulling you over and extracting cash from you then that would make sense but just to pull over to shout **** off seems strange to me.

Maybe the heart rate thread where we both disagreed had some part to play, for which I was partly responsible.

Didnt really get heated but I was disapointed that a useful thread was ruined.

Had to request a new user id and password for mine and the dog eat it as it came through the letterbox!

Gonna all be a bit last minute!

Same as what everyone else has said. I’ve got 3 PC’s at home running Windows and have used free AVG for years with no issues.

Norton is pants.

Gaggia are doing good deals on re-packaged machines, with a 1 year guarantee.

Somebody may be along to post the link alternatively just google them.

The new Passatt is quite nice appeals to me (old fart)

Drove a Golf a few times I found them a nice drive but a bit small and i think that would irritate if I had it as a company car for 2-3 years.

I like Audi’s but I think they are a bit overpriced personally.

Get a kite and get outdoors!

LOL at Stonemonkey, I agree. I’d hate to be the crane driver!

Tails, no dont surf unfortunately. No logic behind the username just used it once and decided to keep it.

Did get a bit wound up today but always feel its just opinions, try not to be rude or arsy, all in good fun on my part.

Pretty much the same, opinionated. Always try to treat people as if i was face to face but sometimes get a bit serious!

Me too! it was indeed a dark moment!

I think the whole “not speaking to you” bit was your comment not mine, lines of communication are always open as far as I am concerned.

My comment was directed at TandemJeremy however but there was a lag!

It doesnt lend itself to scientific study. The opportunity cost for an individual of following a specific regime negates the opportunity to follow another at the same time.
Following another regime later for compariosn is flawed given the possible benefits gained by the previous one plus the time lag.

Brilliant. I’ve missed the little Antipodean lump of gorgeousness!

You couldnt make it up!

Got my quotes mixed up but you get the point!

OK me next.

surfer, you raise some interesting points, then you lecture me about training techniques that are from the 80’s and 90′. surfer, life has moved on. you should too.

Isnt that the point I made earlier, times havent moved on. Over recent years we havent thrown up a homegrown athlete in the UK that can claim to have improved on the times ran during the 80’s by his peers. If thats progression then give me Alf tupper anyday! My experience of running during the 80’s was that people spent more time training, hence my point about high mileage. If you werent training you were eating or sleeping! I think we shouldnt move on but revisit the successful programs of that era. If you can improve on it go ahead,

The one non African athete of recent years who challended their dominance (Craig Mottram) did so by running over 120 miles per week. His coach Nic Bideau claimed he returned to the methods of a ìgolden ageî quoting Lydiard (old school!)

i’m wasting my time talking with you, and i don’t like wasting my time. cheerio.

Dont give up just because you are wrong, you may yet add value, where do I send the cheque?

You are absolutely wrong.

People do make decisions and lots miss opportunites to improve by ignoring tested principles, such as “fartlek” training advocated and used to great effect by Nurmi in the 20’s. Interval training used extensively by almost every distance athlete since the 50’s as well as accepted benefits gained through long slow distance training and forms of resistance training.

These areas form the backbone and structure to every training plan for any athlete worth his salt. You are wrong to say only 5% care about ultimate performance. For me a Vets medal in a national distance race may be my dream, for somebody else a national medal in the open catergory or a top 10 in a local XC race. they are all looking to improve within the parameters of their own ability. Nobody would expect to achieve this without a fair mix of the above items within their training plan.

What possible logic would force them to ignore HR training if it could be incorporated to give even the smallest of marginal benefits at a miniscule financial cost??

It even provides them with an excuse to train easier! Every athlete i know who has dabbled with HR training (and I am one) has been suprised by the fact that they are advised (by the device) to slow down! They are told they have been training too hard! Improved performance comes through hard work, Athletes dont get faster by doing less. yes recovery is a key component but at some point distance runners have to run until their eyeballs pop and HR training doesnt offer this, commited athletes dont need to be told when to run harder ony to run slower, this is one area where HR training makes a contribution. Most athletes know this already. I’m not interested in running “easy” and injury free but not making progress. I would settle for treading the fine line between overwork and injury with occasional success thanks! As they say “winning isnt everything but losing is F*** all!

i disagree with your conclusion. i think it’s the willy-waving thing – ‘hey guys, i just did 5.438 klms at 3.264 mins/klm’. like, who cares? if it’s not part of a structured programme, does it matter?

Speed over distance doesnt matter for distance runners, are you sure you are in the correct career? its the only think that matters. Training effect is specific, to run fast you need to both run and do it fast in training, also do lots of it. The relationship to success and high mileage is clear. It has a high dropout rate but who is interested in the many who fall by the wayside. the fact that some get their is proof it works. they wouldnt get their otherwise. Even Coe ran around 70 miles per week and Ovett often over 100. Both used HR within their training by the way because they had covered every possible area in their training and they welcomed anything that could possibly give them an edge.

if you were within reach i’d spank your bottom for being so silly.

Vietnam? Your not staying at Gary Glitters place are you?

you’ve got to remember my background is medical. the ‘do no harm’ thing. and using hrm’s is one of the simplest ways i can guarantee that i’m not killing someone.

I thought you were in the field of improving athletic performance? Are you saying now that you use HRM to stop people over exerting themselves who may come to harm if they do? Are these athletes?

you seem to be avoiding my considered arguments and questions, something you rudely criticised a moderator for doing only recently!

I did ask 2 specific questions.

Why did the experience of Pirie not inspire them to incorporate and embrace HR training as they did interval training?

why do I not see a HRM on the wrist of every athlete at any level?

given basic models are available for less than £25. I would go further and ask why do athletes purchase expensive GPS devices (and they do in big numbers) the answer being the speed and distance you train at is by far a greater indicator of training effect and benefit than monitoring your HR.

Tandem, I agree they are the best two but neither act totally ethically. Both exploit both their workforce and their customer. Co op act ethically in relative terms with regard to where they invest, however they invest to make profit and I’m trying hard to think how a profit can be made without some degree of exploitation.

It appears to be a particularly pompous and superior one you are astride currently.

You maybe in the pay of a company such as Polar with a vested interest, hence your dismissal of my dismissal of the use of HRM to improve performance.

I gave concrete examples of my experience of having the good fortune (through my very limited ability and being in the right place at the right time) to train with some superb international class athletes.
The use of HRM in their training was either limited or non existent. These were commited athletes who left no stone unturned in their pursuit of improvement. HR training was advanced and athletes such as Gordon Pirie used it to some(?) effect decades earlier. Some of the athletes I trained with set times in the 80’s and 90’s that still rank highly today. Why did the experience of Pirie not inspire them to incorporate and embrace HR training as they did interval training?

I rub shoulders much less these days with good athletes however given the performance claims of HRM manufacturers and evangelists such as yourself why do I not see a HRM on the wrist of every athlete at any level? Quite simply because it only provides maginal benefits to already highly trained athletes and many feel that is dubious.

Your response was to patronise me by saying I wouldnt have heard of the athletes you are advising in Vietnam.
Youve contributed nothing tangible so far other than to infer you are smarter than everybody else and tell us all how well qualified you are.

Thanks for sharing.

Will, out of interest how did you test it?

Gixer.john

Interesting you say that my mate has a Rolex and he always checks the time with me on my Oris!
Bit of a standing joke…….. I suppose you have to be there!

Anyway nothing keeps time like my original Formula 1. Cant kill it with a stick!

We print money all the time to enable economic expansion.

Bigdummy has already said it.

If you rely on investments for income then thats different the idea is to spend as normal not necessarily change patterns due to a percieved downturn in the economy. For many thats what it is, perceived, given increased levels of information from the media.

RO what athletes do you coach/advise?

I’m not saying porkers cant get some benefit from using a hr monitor however my comparison stands.
Far greater benefits are to be had for example from training say 6 or 7 times a week than by training twice but training more scientifically on those days.

I recall training some years ago with Benson Masya who claimed him and his friends never used them. Benson went on to break the hour for a half marathon.

I trained for many years with runners many of whom had 10k pb’s under 29 minutes, in those days lots of brits where knocking on the door of 28 minutes. I cant recall any who used one as a serious training tool. I am sure thats not the case now. However I refer you to the UK distance running performance tables to see how times have deteriorated over the last few years.
If its such a great tool why are runners today running slower than they where 20 years ago?
Its largely a gadget that only adds real value when most other blocks of training have been put in place and is not a short cut to hard training.

Something to bear in mind is that things change rather slowly in athletic performance however!

Look at any grand prix 5 or 10k event around the world and you will count the non Africans on one hand. I would be suprised if many of them used a HR monitor at all.
UK distance running has gone backwards over recent years with almost no exception. The key to athletic performance is consistent application and effort. At a low performance level I would argue simply cycling/running regularly is the key to improved performance. Adhering strictly to HR monitoring before spending time improving conditioning is like putting high grade fuel in an old banger!

I’ve used it in the past but only on old cars, it works but not sure if it has implications for your water pump etc.

Vive la difference!

You enjoy your cheap tat and leave us alone to admire quality timepieces.