Herman Shake – well put. I would also add that it isn’t just related to recent images / stereotypes of what is considered ‘feminine’. Our culture is historically founded on the subjugation of women. For example it is only fairly recently been recognised that ‘wifes’ can be raped by their husbands, as for a long time our society decreed that in marrying a women gave a man the right to have sex with her any time her wanted to, whether she consented or not.

Don’t see any point in reacting to some of the comments on here, but saddened that so much of it mirrors the debates and arguements that women were having 20 odd years ago but it still hasn’t changed. A couple of points to consider though:

– ‘common sense’ behaviour ie not being out alone at night in the city or not wearing ‘skimpy / revealing’ clothing. There is a very fine line between what is being suggested as ‘common sense’ and a legitimate right for women to go about their business. When I was a student in Leeds, 20 odd years ago, there was a series of rapes in the local area and thd police advised women not to go out alone after dark – well it was winter so dark at about 5pm – is that restriction acceptable or a total infringement of women’s liberty?

– re ‘skimpy clothing’ – the last time I got sexual hassle of a group of guys was when I was wearing Lycra shorts and a vest top road riding in hot weather – how far is it acceptable to ask women to choose what they wear so as too avoid unwanted attention?

– if nothing else the years and rape evidence should have shown us that restricting women in either their behaviour, dress, or location will never stop rape from occuring. The only way to reduce the incidence of rape is to put more resources and effort into addressing the causes on rape which centre around a small percentage of men’s attitudes towards control and violence towards women.

That looks great – I’ve been planning on doing the circumference of Wales, but round Britain would be an amazing ride.

Crazy-legs – do you know if they are doing it as a tour again this year? Or in 2012?

Any route info much appreciated.

Going to be around the Russell Square and Regents Parks areas.

Oops, in the wrong forum … anyone know how i can transfer this to the ‘chat’ forum?

Love the plane :) am now getting funny looks for laughing to myself.

Keep ’em coming, I’m stuck on a long, boring train journey, and after all the talk about eating more, and pictures of buns, I’ve now eaten all my lunch and there’s no cake available!

Mind you, I’m working on dome research about health and outdoor recreation – the proportion of people who get enough exercise from outdoor pursuits … But there’s no discussion about the physical activity / cake consumption ratio yet :)

And none of you should fret about your size – I’m only light ‘cos I’m a short-arse!

‘Eat some food’ … I do … constantly! I’m like the hungry caterpillar :)

I guess I just run around a lot (was asked yesterday by someone at work ‘where I put it all’ as I happily made a significant contribution to the consumption of a shared ‘back to work’ cake – but then they’d just driven to work and I’d cycled 25 miles to get in)

think I’m going to take Elf’s line that us smaller peeps subsidize you biggies :) I’ll expect discounts off everything and special allowances like being able to take extra luggage on planes – me and my bike combined is surely less than the average person.

Yey emsz – 45kg here too :) But only 150cm, so have retained some curves (hopefully in the right places!)

Surely this means that as uber-lightweights we can ride wherever we like as we’ll just float over the trails causing zero erosion …

Nice chair … reminds me of a centipede in an attack position – Maybe not what the designer intended :)

Back to the OP – you asked whether the ‘cost of a degree is worth it’ -I’d say you need (or rather your children need) to consider ‘worth’ in terms of both economic and non-economic value.

From personal experience, if I had had to pay £9000 + living costs for my first degree (subsequent one’s were funded by research funding), then it would not have been ‘worth it’ purely on economic grounds. In part that because I’ve chosen employment that I’ve cared about, where I’ve felt I can make a contribution to society / public good, rather than just for ‘economic’ gain (ie often been paid peanuts, but like to think I’ve helped people).

But in terms on non-economic value (increasing recognised as equally important when assessing cost-benefit ratio’s), then yes, I would argue that it has been ‘worth it’, for two reasons. Firstly, because of what I gained, through exposure to different politics, philosophies, debate, ideas, counter-culture, feminism, equalities and a whole new way of thinking and responding to the world. From that point of view, I also think society can gain, through hopefully people sometimes being more open to new ideas and other viewpoints and cultures (not always an outcome of university, I admit, but it was in my case). Secondly, because it’s meant I can put the skills I learnt (research / critical thinking) to use for (hopefully) the benefit of people / society.

Having said all that, would I have gone to uni if faced with the level of debt that will result from £9000 fees? No, probably not. I had no parental support, and came from a background of no money, so that level of debt would have seemed huge, and I probably couldn’t have faced it. Which I guess emphasizes how socially divisive this fee increase can be.

But ultimately, surely it’s up to your children to make this decision for themselves?

Lowey – I didn’t even get as far as the ‘dabbling’ stage – one look at a dating website reminded me of a disturbing cross between estate agent level of ‘selling’ text and a cattle market!

Bravehotel8er – is that how it works, one date after another? Not a dig at you, but personally that seems like the eqivalent of the pick ‘n mix sweetie counter! Last time I was single, it was generally one person at a time.

And my mind boggles at the thought of TSY’s dating profile!

Guys are just as bad – ‘love the outdoors’ translates into a stroll before settling down in front on the footie, or an OCD level of fitness fanaticism that would make Lance Armstrong look laid back.

Think I’ll remain steadfastly single – means I can keep my independence and go biking / hiking etc whenever I want, as I suspect most guys aren’t really interested in an active, occassionally opinionated girl who does have their own interests! Plus I shudder at the thought of Internet dating!

Don’t think it’s a problem – in the ‘countryside’ there’s busy places if you want to be sociable and ‘people-free’ places if you want to have a bit of peace and quiet.

I quite enjoy the diversity – went for a 50 mile road ride on Easter Sunday – 90% of the time on deserted back roads in the Snowdonia National Park, with occassional spins through busy areas – which were great for some chat and a few smiles. Just good so see everyone out enjoying themselves :)

Do get a bit annoyed by some of my colleagues who have a somewhat patronising attitude towards wanting to encourage ‘target social groups’ (ie lower social class, ethnic minorities, disabled etc) to visit the outdoors, but simulataneously expect them to want to enjoy it in the the same way as they (usually white, middle class, educated) prefer it – ie peace and quiet, OS map in hand. Not so happy when said ‘target social groups’ indicate that they’d prefer it if they could just have a BBQ next to a veiwpoint or have a bit of a party :)

Anyway, there’s room for all of us.

Edukator – you’re right the private / commercial sector has far more influence on people’s behaviour than the government!

Not sure what the osandy-cerbere case is that you mentioned (and don’t want to google it on the bus!), but I guess there’s always questions about what behaviour is acceptable in private and what is ok in public spheres

TooTall – yup, the government aims to influence our behaviour not just through legislation but also through behaviour change / social marketing campaigns, especially on ‘lifestyle’ behaviours such as diet, exercise, smoking, and most ‘pro-environmental’ behaviours. It’s been questioned as to whether that’s the right role for the state or whether the government should use behavioural economics to create the ‘right environment’ for people to make the ‘right choice’, ie putting ‘healthy’ foods at eye height in supermarkets but not having any education campaigns to encourage healthy eating. I think we should give more though to what behaviours the state is promoting (and who’s values they represent) and then consider which of the many options would be the most appropriate to influence that specific behaviour, rather than make an ideological stance for one approach over another

TooTall – yup, the government aims to influence our behaviour not just through legislation but also through behaviour change / social marketing campaigns, especially on ‘lifestyle’ behaviours such as diet, exercise, smoking, and most ‘pro-environmental’ behaviours. It’s been questioned as to whether that’s the right role for the state or whether the government should use behavioural economics to create the ‘right environment’ for people to make the ‘right choice’, ie putting ‘healthy’ foods at eye height in supermarkets but not having any education campaigns to encourage healthy eating. I think we should give more though to what behaviours the state is promoting (and who’s values they represent) and then consider which of the many options would be the most appropriate to influence that specific behaviour, rather than make an ideological stance for one approach over another

TJ – there’s Ulrich’s research on the postive effect that a view of ‘greenspace’ (ie trees etc) had on recovery times from surgery. Not sure how many city centre hospitals are in green environments though, or how the relative importance of that sits with the quality of the building, or the level of high tech?

mcmoonter – all the ‘Maggie’s Centre’s’ are architecturally beautiful buildings. It’s good to see that much care going into creating life-affirming and aesthetic environments for cancer patients.

Thanks TJ!

Nope, they didn’t work … I am now confirmed as an IT incompetent.

Fortunately one of them is the same as the picture from Brakes – love the building in his / her second picture.

For architecture:

Hospital de Sant Pau, Barcelona

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/barcelona/hospital_de_sant_pau_boczko06_03.jpg

Maggie’s Center in Inverness:

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/scotland/maggies_inverness_57.jpg

And for personal reasons – Great Ormond Street Hospital (an amazing place that is both heart wrenchingly tragic and wonderfully cheerful and positive, with the best staff in the world)

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/london/great_ormond_street_hospital_ldy030308.jpg

No idea if these images will work – I am officially an IT numpty :)

Onzadog – great! That’ll be several pages of waffle expressed in an assertive manner without actually coming to any conclusion then :) I’ll wait for it to filter through via TSY …

I’d have thought that at least someone would have drunk a sufficiently strong coffee, read the daily mail and be ready for a rant by now :)

Love the penguin vid :)

and TJ – Slovenia looks amazing (almost as good as Scotland …)

Elfin – AA Hospital’s it is then! Have you seen the new Great Ormond Street extension? It’s meant to be the ‘greenest hospital building’ – but I’m not sure if it’s finished yet.

Dobo, I’m hoping that you don’t mean to be as offensive as you now appear to be to me, but I’m afraid that I am appalled that anyone can consider discrimination against people with disabilities to be acceptable ‘instinct’ or any other kind of justifiable ‘human nature’.

I’m going to leave this thread alone now as it saddens me that my brother can be perceived as justiably repulsive and that such views still exist.

Junkyard – a valid question, and before posting I did give serious thought as to whether I was showing a similar attitude in relation to children. That was why I gave the example of my dog – it’s not that dogs are discriminated against, nor are children – there is a big difference between discrimination (which is a deep seated and pervasive negative attitude towards a certain group of people), and a preference to sometimes have different spaces available to you.

It is only really if you are someone who is discriminated against, or have a close family member who is discrimated against that you truely realise the difference. I have spent all my life seeing the negative reaction that my brother gets, that ranges from people not wanting to sit next to him on the bus, to being asked to leave the church cafe where he worked as a volunteer as customers objected to being served by him as his compromised immune system means that he often has a high number of warts on his hands (and no, that’s not contageous!). No-one with non-disabled children have to face this level of continuous, day to day discrimination. And it us why I do think there is a difference between ‘discrimination’ and child or dog-free places.

Personally I prefer to eat / drink / stay in child-free places. I have fun visiting my friends with children, but do appreciate having places to go where there aren’t children as I find it more relaxing and less disruptive. That’s not saying that all pubs / b&b’s etc should be child-free, but I do think it’s good for those of us who’d prefer to socialise / relax in places where there aren’t children should be allowed to do so. I have a dog, but I don’t think everywhere should be made to allow dogs – I’m perfectly happy that some people prefer to not be around them, but equally I’d be annoyed if dogs were banned from all pubs etc. Like children, it’s just a question of making sure that there are both options.

The only opinion that I’ve got a real issue with is Tijuana Taxi’s comment on people with mental disabilities being banned from a b&b. My brother has both mental and physical disabilities and I would be furious if I was ever told I couldn’t stay somewhere with him cos other people might find that difficult / offensive. We are often made to feel uncomfortable / unwelcome by other people when we go out, and the kind of attitude that supports banning disabled people from places just perpetuates that level of discrimination.

Popty Ping :)

and

Bendigedig!

Apparently in dog years I am 301 years old!

But it’s OK, cos I’m a ‘fair of face’ child :)

ealine anne – yey, that’s the same as mine! it was the only bike that I could find that fitted my 5 foot nothing size :) Lots of people said that at my height I wouldn’t be able to have 700 wheels, but I don’t have any problem with toe overlap, do you?

I’ve also now got the smallest sized specialized tricross as a touring bike – the frame size is fine (not quite as good as the Dolce), but I really notice the difference in having ‘unisex’ rather than women’s specific bars – it’s pretty difficult to ride in the drops and the reach to the brakes isn’t that easy.

Bigbutslimmerbloke – great pic, and loved the way you described it.

Anyone (who’s more tecnically savvy than me – ie everyone!) – how do you do the picture links from images you’ve got from t’internet?

Bluebell flowering has started in the northern reaches of Wales – at Conwy :)

Thanks for the replies – it’s good to learn the road clipless pedals are harder to get into / out of than mtb one’s before I went off and bought some!

Seems as though my best option would be to dig the mtb spd’s out from the back of the shed and try again with those (might see if they fit on the exercise bike I have in the house – at least that would give me a chance to practice without falling over).

And in the future to consider either spd-sl’s or speedplay (nver heard of these before – just had a quick look – any particular recommendations as to which version?)

Taking down an old ceiling which had god knows how many years of rats pee, droppings and old nests mixed with ancient disintegrating insulation. Only way to do it was to stand underneath and get covered in it whilst wearing head to toe protective clothing and a breating mask.

Having spent 4 years renovating an old cottage only to have to put it on the market as soon as it’s finished for no profit has made me conclude that I am never, ever going to do major renovations / diy again – riding bikes is a far better use of my time!

I seem to have joined the shift from mtb’ing to road riding – nothing to do with it being the new ‘niche’ (I had no idea it was!), but due to a knee injury making mtb’ing not possible, but road riding OK. At the time, I did see it as ‘better than nothing’ until I was able to mtb again, but now I do prefer road riding to off-road.

It’s got minimum pre-ride faffage – quicker and easier to just grab the bike / water bottle and head out, I’ve got a huge variety of great road routes straight from the door, no having to sort out transporting bikes in cars or fuel costs, and minimal post-ride cleaning. Plus I love it! Whether that’s ambling along chatting to the new lambs, or the satisfaction of sweating to the top of a steep climb, or the letting go of the brakes for a ‘I can’t believe I’m going this fast’ descent.

Couple of downsides – most of my friends are mtb’ers (and don’t feel the love for the road), and most of the clubs are race orientated and I’m into it cos I just like road riding / having a bit of a blether / sometimes admiring the scenery and sometimes going as fast as I can / stopping for a panad or a pint. I’d really like to see more ‘social’ road rides / clubs. Also, it does seem to be a farily competitive and male dominated scene.

But I have found most roadies I meet to be pretty friendly (although I suspect that the group who called out ‘allez, allez’ at me when I was going at the speed of a snail up the hill might have bee taking the piss a little!)

Oh, and I’m not fat, nor do I have a small willy, so I guess i can get away with wearing lycra :)

Kev – saw some of the pic’s on mbnw – looked like a top ride :) I managed to stay upright when we went biking up there last week but was riding like a numpty a few days later at penmachno – started off by a direct chest plant onto a tree stump (sooo glad girls have some natural padding in that area) and then poked some nice holes in my legs after my bike attacked me when I went over the bars and off the side of the trail.

Elfin – maybe see you if you’re up this way in the summer.

Hi Kev! Was on ‘staycation’ last week (if you want to use such a **** term – aka having a holiday based at home). Lucky enough that my friend is one of the uk’s top female sea kayak (she does some very scary stuff!), who kitted me out and took me off sea kayaking. Has to be one of the most amazing things I’ve ever done. Spend the rest of the week mountain biking and hiking / scrambling. Can’t believe the weather we’ve had – I seem to even have a bit of a tan (unheard of for north Wales in march!)

Were you up on Conwy mtn / tal y fan today? I love it up there – has to be my favourite place for biking in snowdonia. We went biking up there last week, great fun and really fast cos it’s so dry. Hope you had a good time up there today.

Elfin – you wouldn’t get sea sick sea kayaking – once it gets rough you’re too busy trying to stay upright and not drown to worry about anything else :)

Burts / Domino / druidh / slugwash – thanks for the inspiring pic’s :)

Have a feeling that getting into seakayaking is going to be a rather expensive business! I was lucky that my friend who took me out paddling this week is a really experienced sea kayaker with loads of spare kit, who then explained that I was splashing around in about 3 grands worth of kayak (to say nothing of the paddles etc). My future bank balance is not going to be happy …

@ esme – I’ve sent you a reply on shecycles re the loop

Snow and Rock outlet sale has the best prices at the moment – just bought a pair of the women’s XA Pro Ultra GTX for £66.

Not exactly the ‘best looking’ footwear, but the pair that I always seem to grab when I’m heading out – and frankly when I’m covered in mud and shit then the ‘fashionableness’ of my footwear is the last thing I think of :)

mmm … as someone who was ‘excluded’ from the education system at 14 – expelled was what we called it in my day -it’s been interesting to watch this. Frankly some of them appear (but this I’d tv, so who knows in reality!) to be arrogant, self indulgent, and with a complete lack of respect for anyone, but others also come across as having more complex issues and if you could get underneath their protective outer attitude, then some great young people would emerge.

Not sure about the ‘famous people as inspiration’ (although ellen MacArthur was pretty good), and agree that it would have been better with showing the impact that some of the best teachers can have.

As for me, well the origins of why I was expelled started with some really agressive bullying, but now I have ended up with 3 degrees (BA, masters and PhD), and am now head of research for a government agency, so I guess every ‘troubled teenager’ isn’t a complete loss. Oh, and the person who really helped me turn everything around was a truely inspirational and supportive college tutor :)

I’ve been experimenting with being ‘car free’ for the last 3 months. I live in a small town in north Wales, with my office about 25 miles away, but with my dog and many friends living in remote rural villages. The biggest pro has been the lower cost – I get a £16 weekly bus ticket supplemented by trains when needed, so on average about £25 week. This is a big saving compared to my transport costs when I had a car which were about £40 / week ie £2000 / yr (Inc tax, insurance, petrol, mot servicing and repairs, and depreciation).

But I am definately going to get another car – the bus to work takes twice as long as driving, stopping enroute to pick up shopping is not easy, and it’s impossible for me to get to my dog and friends on weekends and evenings. Quality of life and available time are definately worth an extra £15 week to me!

But it has been good

Lowey – that’s an incredibly tough combination.

Been through some similar issues recently (but not as much as you’re having to cope with). Not sure if it’s any help, but I’ve learnt a few things which might be worth bearing in mind:

– you’ll need to grieve for losing all of these significant people in your life – your mother, nan-in-law, and your wife.

– grieving takes time – a long time to process properly, so accept that it’s going to take a while and don’t beat yourself up if you don’t feel ‘better’ in a short space of time

– try and remove / avoid all other stresses that you can – even the smallest one – the saying ‘the straw that broke tha camel’s back’ can be true, so take care

– spend time with positive people – they might not be your current closest friends (I’ve found that some of my friendships have changed – some people found it harder to be supportive / know what to say, whereas others have been fantastic). Find out who it helps you to be with most, and spend time with them.

– keep hold of the smallest things that make you smile, or help you de-stress (for me that’s been outdoors / nature / activity)

– talk … and keep on talking for as long as you need to.

Take care