oldgrump08 –
… 1000ss is newest incarnation of the aircooled motor

rode the last incarnation of the 900ss with that motor… would get more excited about starting my lawnmower.

rode it back to back with aprilia rsv… no contest.

however your choice is triumph or ducati… ducati great for polishing and looking at, triumph great for the real world.

are the dukes still running that old air cooled engine?

is it a singlespeed, oh it's italian, it will be soon 8O

croque madame
cup of tea
them crooked vultures

who?

snowshill, sunday :-)

right, i haven't read the other replies but this is my opinion.

if you were gonna buy a campervan and travel the world, fine, if you're in imminent danger of reposession, fine, but as you want to carry on living a coventional life in a conventional house then don't do it.

with the current market you should be buying another place not selling your only one. mortgage rates are low, rents are high, the value of your property (and your equity) has been reduced by 20% in the last 18 months.

if you really do want to realise some of your equity then remortgage or down size for **** sake don't rent unless you have to.

Alex who?
Dane who?
Heidi who?
Ivana Trump
Jonas who?
Katia who?
Lady who?
Nicola who?
Sisqó who?
Stephanie Beacham
who? Baldwin
Vinnie Jones

"celebrity?" big brother, **** me there's people on here more famous than some of those.

as it's the last cbb maybe next year they should do stwbb, i wonder who would go in?

cheap and insurance, not normally two words that go together!

come on cynic-al, you're answering with one word per post, it's gonna be this time next week before you've said a whole sentence :!:

KINGTUT –
Stop **** trolling about SS again, grow up and find something better to do.

You've done it already"

oh no, the forum polizei are on to me! the first post was a genuine enquiry, now i've clearly found the answer. anyway, you're in denial but it's ok, it's the first stage on the road to recovery!

that may be so gaz but i hear you missed the sun!

there's something i don't understand, ivana trump has gone into the big brother house but not one of the british "celebs" have ripped the piss out of her name! i'm sorry, i wouldn't have been able to hold back!

Augustus Barclay Yaffle –
Its good to get some perspective

oh yes!

timothecimmerian –
Not been up Clent so far this year but your post has inspired me to get up there next weekend for a pootle.

glad to be of service, i was told i was going for a pootle… fell for that one!

look, i apologise because this is going off on another tangent and i'm adding to it.

but

CrAsH…tEsT..RiDeR – most people…read mags for reviews

do they?

and

CrAsH…tEsT..RiDeR – if your the king of person would who splashes £500-600 on a no name frame with no history, then you obv have more money than sense.

if you're the kind of person who splashes out £500-£600 on any frame because a commercial publication said it was good when that same commercial publication runs full page adverts for the manufacturer involved, then you too obviously have more money than sense!

i'll try and be quick here, i used to work with a bloke who many years previous was a test rider for bsa motorcycles, he was testing at mira one day and in the canteen was talking to a tester from motorcycle news who was testing a new bmw flat twin. the bike broke down twice, had several faults, lacked power and handled poorly, basically the tester thought it was a bag of shit. the following wednesday, the report was in motorcycle news… no mention of faults or short comings, handled well, plenty of power, basically the bike was brilliant!

there's more, there's an independant publication called trail bike magazine, the editor/owner, si melber, once published a letter from yamaha explaining how they were unhappy with a report he gave on one of their bikes and threatened to withdraw there advertising with him!

sorry, there's more still, bike magazine once tested a ducati 900ss, in the test they commented that it was a great bike and an improvement over last years model which suffered with several problems (they listed them but i can't remember). i pulled the copy out of my collection with the test to which they refered, nothing, nowt, zilch… basically it was a great bike the year before too!

i suggest you should buy magazines in order to see what is available (so you can look at it and make up your own mind) and look at the well staged and airbrushed photography.

again, apologies for continueing to go off on this tangent.

thisisnotaspoon – So in summary, identical frames, to make it in the UK is 50% more (at least).

ditto

talking about leather, i bought bks made-to-measure, expensive but worth it. i'm vary wary of brands that put alot of money into racing, you're paying for the name not the quality. dainese leathers are as reliable as an eighties lancia!

yeah, put your stuff in storage, book into a hotel, take a month off work to get your new house how you want it because when the previous owners move their stuff out it won't look anything like it did when you saw it last…. oh and stay calm!

Andy M –
Is this only in Australia

yeah, the rest of the world has rain so the electrical faults kick in before top speed is reached!

or alternatively, can you buy a brazed and lugged road frame of camparable quality to bob jackson, built in china or taiwan and if so how much are they?

so you can buy an off-the-peg, brazed and lugged road frame, built in leeds for £380 from bob jackson.

1. what's the quality of a bob jackson frame like?

2. does bob jackson have the ability and technical knowledge to produce a welded mtb frame?

3. if the answers to 1 & 2 are favouirable, how much would they charge?

EDIT; looking at the bob jackson website it all seems to be road bikes, so they either consider mtb to be the devils own work or the answer to question 2 is no.

EDIT2; or they don't see a market for uk built mtb frames!

nope, live for today!

what a waste of time! :?

however i'll stick with this

"A patriot loves their country, a nationalist hates everyone else's."

come on england. :D

R.I.P. stu mcgroo.

from what i've read elsewhere, clearly more than some but less than others!

mike-at-dialledbikes –
…..There are currently no companies in the UK who can mass produce bike frames to the same volumes, quality and for the same prices as companies providing similar services in Taiwan.

i know there are currently no companies doing such a thing, what norton is asking is that with the changing economies is there now a possibility to start such a company?

oh, http404, i struggling to find the point you made about economically and competitively, where is that exactly.

also, please understand there is a difference between patriotism and racism and please do not imply that i am racist.

unfortunately this thread has now gone sour, the whole point was to determine whether or not a frame of comparable quality to the best coming from the far east could be produced in the uk for the same price.

to reiterate… the same quality and the same price but made in the uk.

to double reiterate… not of lesser quality and not for a premium price.

shall i reiterate again?

toys19 – Stu McGroo and others, just because some of the people involved with the bike industry who post on this forum don't think its possible, doesn't mean it isn't.

just inviting opinions and looking down all the avenues!

tron – I can't see it myself. The idea that quality will be better just because it's in the UK

totally agree, but then no one has actually said that. while we're on the subject, you haven't got to look to far to find plenty of shit coming from taiwan, china, etc.

RustyNissanPrairie – There's no way I'd pay a premium for a UK over a Taiwan equiv built frame

no one said premium either – same price for comparable product.

thepodge – why so? i bet there are a lot more people employed in the UK through non UK bike brands. do you hold Marin in the same light? a lot of their stuff was designed by UK people

because i'm british and as such i'm still entitled to my own opinions. as for the marin question, yes. order of preference is 1.british built by british business 2.foreign built by a british business 3.british built by foreign business 4.foreign built by foreign business. nationality of designer is irellivant, it's about economies…. "in my opinion"

anyway, i think it's a goer, most likely be a lot of hard work for little monetary reward, but plenty of satisfaction.

a couple of people have suggested starting with custom builds and expanding (eventually) to production/off the shelf and/or touring frames which of course are already being done. nortons original suggestion was that there might be a niche market for off the peg hardtails, nothing to do with big margins, retirement etc, but as daveyboywonder says, for the love of frame building.

anyway, as much as i am enjoying this thread, i would imagine that both sam and brant have the cost of off-the-peg frame building both at home and abroad tattooed on their brains, so come on guys, in your opinion, is nortons original suggestion possible? a simple yes or no.

as a landlord if my tenants have a problem with my property i get it sorted, and quick. if they have a problem with a neighbour then that is nothing to do with me and is no reason for me to allow them to leave 5 months before the end of the contract.

it was me who suggested 650 units/year, this is a maximum based on brants production figures for a one man band (8 weeks/100) it was by no means meant to be any kind of target.

vinnyeh – what's your unique selling point?

doing a bit more research, i think a £599 price tag is to high, just a quick look around the net and you can find british companies selling off the shelf frames made in the far east for considerably less, orange p7 £460, cotic soul £470, singular hummingbird £420.

speaking from a personal viewpoint, i am new to mtb riding and recently purchased a (2nd hand) orange hardtail, i was attracted by the idea of buying british, though i later learnt that orange hardtails are outsourced at least i've got a british connection which, to me, is better than buying 100% non british.

however, if i could purchase a 100% british frame, of comparable quality and in the same ball park price-wise as a british/far east mix then i would gladly do so every time and i think that that has to be the unique selling point – same price and quality but 100% british.

i like this, it's proper got me thinking, been sat here for a hour now!

using brants figures of £250/unit and 8 weeks/100 units for one skilled worker, if you can sell all you can make then that's 650 units/year which equates to profit of £226850.

now, assuming you want to produce a great product as opposed to simply making money, then you can afford to up the quality (to the best), offer options, get some good marketing, sell them cheaper and still achieve a decent profit. if you offered that then you're meeting china/taiwan etc head on for price and blowing them out the water on quality, flexibility and desirability. i'd say there is a market.

alpin – Member
seriously…. taking holidays when I (note capital 'i') want

alpin you tosser :-) , me and 40 odd others fell for that, nice one! :oops: of course if you're really a teacher (which i doubt!) you'd already know all about kids and having to take expensive holidays during peak times!

i'd be happy not to have kids… hold on, i haven't got any… cool.

seriously, i haven't read all the replies so don't know what others are saying but both me and my partner (gf) are 43, we've been together since we were 17 and although when we were younger we'd sometimes talk (very light heartedly) about the future and what we might be doing, when we actually thought about it seriously neither of us wanted a family.

i remember at 25 thinking, jesus, my brother had got 2 kids by this age, and the responsibility just scared me to death.

as for doing what you want, when you want… absolutily. you holiday in school time… so you can have 2 holidays for the price of one, you go out when you want, you only have to buy one pair of vans trainers at a time (or more if you like), you get the jist.

however… when you phone your friends up to go out, guess what, they can't because they've got kids! what it has meant is that over the years i've always had mates who were in their 20's, mainly through work, and as they get older, get married, have kids they are replaced with new mates.

now though, my mates from years ago are coming back into the fray, as their kids have grown up.

also alot of life is geared to family life, i have a theory that successive governments/employers want you to get married, get a big mortgage and have 2.2 children cos then they've got you by the bollocks. when you've got all those responsibilities you're not going to rock the boat, want to go out with your kids on saturday but the boss wants you to do overtime… you'll be at work!

of my friends that have children, i'm sorry, but their lives are so mundane, football practice, horse riding lessons, birthday parties, ballet lessons, they don't do **** all for themselves they just live life through their kids.

there's more, most of my friends and family with children are old farts, my brother, 47, acts like he's 67, same with friends. i don't know if it's because i haven't got kids but i don't think i had to grow up, go to gigs and get in the mosh, went to the cinema last week with my 17 and 22 years old nieces while my brother and sister-in-law stayed at home, probably went to bed at 10!!!!

like i said i'm 43, no kids and no regrets.

[EDIT] shit… look how long that is… sorry about that!

riding a 29er but not blowing a trumpet about it –
Has Stu bought any lights yet?

it's clearly a question of prioritising, lights would be great in the dark but with a flat tyre i really should buy some levers and a pump first!

orange five, garage makeover, vw t5 and chinese takeaway!

you're in new york, it's all special. my fav is brooklyn diner at 212 west 57th.

try http://www.menupages.com

clearly the camera just doesn't do justice to the severity of the gradient and immense speeds achieved!

apparently he sleeps with his eyes open!

i was referring to schrader valves, no experience of schraeder or schreader!