molgrips – Member
I’m not seeing any competition from EU citizens and I still haven’t had a payrise in years. You may not be blaming the right thing there. You know what confirmation bias is, right?

As I’m sure you’re aware. a) you know me better than that, unless you’re playing games, again.

b) that’s a nice opening remark, but at least you didn’t call me a bigot, xenophobe or racist. But the night may still be young.

So, here’s the news. My contract expired 30th June. I requested a pay rise. Long story short, the request was refused. The girl I sit next to is from Romania. She’s mid 20s. I’ve done this job for 21 yrs. Yet my company thinks she can do the same job as me, for LESS money and so therefore see no reason to grant my request for an increase.

Mine, isn’t a story of a lazy Brit, too proud to clean the toilet, sweep the street or fry your big Mac. Instead, as an educated, professional, I am having the ass torn out of my career and earning power, because the EU clings to a principal of free movement (whatever that means) which was agreed at a time when Europe was litterally rebuilding itself, post WW2!

The very fact, that without “knowing”the facts about what your fellow countrymen may be be experiencing at the hands of Brussels, you ask me about confirmation bias appears to be ignorant, or arrogant, at best! Indeed it makes me wonder who you think you are to ask me if I know what confirmation bias is.
Honestly, have a word with yourself. Something along the lines of just because the EU isn’t screwing you, doesn’t go to say it isn’t screwing your neighbour!
:roll:

So, free labour movement then?

Has seen people from other parts of the EU come to the UK and claim to be able to do my job. The result has been I haven’t had a wage rise since 2010!!

Furthermore, I see no chance of a wage rise, in the future.

Thank you, EU.

Yeap, it’s a significant disturbance in comparison to recent decades of all parties gravitating towards the centre.

It’s times/events such as we are witnessing now, when extreme outcomes become increasingly likely.

molgrips – Member
So is there historical precedent for this level of disruption to politics and society? I think Thatch was pretty controversial at the time no?

Thatcher was an economic reformer.

Cameron tried to be (you judge) a social reformer.

David Cameron may have declared he loves his country. Obviously he couldn’t have been referring to the UK.
DC has betrayed the UK to his own beliefs. He was elected for reasons/pledges which included holding a referendum. Now he has a result he doesn’t like, he refuses to do his job. Too worried about his image/place in history.

Disruption? Very much and a lot of it, consequently by design. DC avoiding his duty in the hope of reversing the outcome of a referendum, via a back door.

However, the world is watching and to anyone with even a modest awareness of this, knows the UK gov must respect the result of such a vote.

codybrennan – Member
It strikes me now that Leave were just hell-bent on exit at any cost, financial, social, whatever. There was little point in offering any economic argument against it as they weren’t listening to this.

Well put. Yes, evidently “a few folk” were very pissed off with the EU. Who’d of thunk it!

So, whats the initial reaction of the EU after a vote for Brexit??
The EU aint going to change. Really? And people want to stay with such a bunch of self serving incumbents in Brussels, adhering to political principles laid down, in the 1950s!

The world is moving on, brexit can and may lead the way to a new Europe.

Fortunately, it would seem Brussels has been infiltrated by a handful of cleverer types who are now saying that perhaps the EU needs to change.

Amused at the suggestion to contact a democratically elected representative. Asking them to overturn/ignore the result of a democratically voted referendum.

It would appear that the regressive lefties and those with their heads buried deep into the sand. Haven’t given this brexit business too much thought.

Here’s something to consider.

Brexit did us all a favour. If remain had been the result of the referendum. How do you think leave-sters would have voted at any opportunity in the future?

Thats right, the leave-sters may have felt inclined to vote even further to the right.

Do remainistas really want Nigel in No10?
I don’t, which is why I hope parliament respects the vote result and gets on with the job.

Alternatively. If we’re not going to respect the result of the vote.
Can we re-run last Saturday’s lottery, because my numbers didn’t come up and I’m due a jackpot win.
:roll:

Ooo. BTW, I wonder if remain realise. A remain vote will likely see an even greater rise of the far right in the UK.

I did kinda mention this in an earlier post, but upon reflection perhaps I was being too cryptic for the given audience….

Nigel F for PM? I bet theres lots of folk who don’t want to vote UKIP. But if forced to remain, may just do so…..

Junkyard
Yes that minimum wage has plummeted of late
You work in social services or some other similar local Gov dept. So, frankly, you don’t see or know shit about what’s happening in the real world.

Go ask the working classes of Tee Side, what the EU has done for them. Ask them why they will vote leave.
Nope, you’ll ignore them, as Westminster has. At a push, you’ll behave like an outer party member at hate and shout down anyone who opposes your ideal.
There’s a good boy, good night ;-)

molgrips – Member
You know a lot of us normal people work for those same companies, don’t you?
Lol, grips, you made it very clear, on this forum. That you aint never normal ;-)
Obviously, You haven’t been reading the thread. But then it is a ridiculous 115 pages!

Please post back when you have been replaced by a European worker who has agreed to do your job for 50 percent of your salary. That’s what is happening right now to people in the UK and unless you’ve experienced it. You’re just piss’in in the wind.

But I’m not surprized. If it aint ruining your party, you carry on while your neighbours suffer.

What you fail to see, is what is happening to others in the UK. It’s like you seem to think everything the EU is doing is good and nobody is being detrimentally effected. Well, there are lots of folk who are losing out on our current deal with the EU and this referendum is their chance to be heard over the grad middle class, liberals who know nothing about being working class, UK 2016!

oldnpastit – Member
Hmmm, share holders == pension funds.

Exactly. Beautiful, isn’t? The Elite have the rest of us bagged and tagged!

Oh, but hold on, EU will save us!
Riiiiiiight

oldnpastit – Member
Whether that’s good or bad I can’t say.

Well, you could ask Alan Sugar. But remember, Sir sugar likes cheap labour, a lower wage bill contributes the the profit column and pleases the share holders.
LMFAO at business leaders urging us to remain. Conflict of interest??

Junkyard
What exactly do you think Gove, IDS, and Boris will do if we vote leave then Hora?Become rampantly left wing, protect business and look after the working classes?

What, like the EU did?

Unfortunately, the working classes have experienced, first hand. What the EU is currently doing for them.
Cutting them off at the knees, in terms of being able to ask for a better wage as free movement has effectively undercut UK workers.
Yay the revolution, eh?
:roll:

teamhurtmore – Member
That the very idea seems totally absurd now to all/most of us and certainly to my kid’s generation is testament to the success of the EU. 

Ooo! I’ll just nip across dimensions to the Universe where the EU didn’t really turn out like the one we’re shackled to. Just to confirm that our version of the EU is the reason, that idea may seem absurd……….

deadlydarcy – Member
.And some people bore people to death with winks and smileys
:lol:

philxx1975 – Member
No the chinese will just build the good stuff for Europe and send us any old shit
:lol:

The Flying Ox – Member
Finally. How come then, any time anyone raises those concerns, they’re instantly drowned by a sea of voices all clamouring to be the one who shouts “YOU’RE RACIST” the loudest? There is literally no conversation to be had, because it is impossible

That’s how some folk think they win. By shouting down others.

When’s the next “hate” minute scheduled for?

molgrips – Member
a) really? and
b) are you saying butter from NZ is a good thing or not?

Still claiming to miss the point. But you’ve played that game before, so no dice ;-)

Rose tinted specs? Got to be better than an X-Wing pilot helmet with the blast shield down.

This is not the Europe you’re voting for.

Use the farce.
:lol:

molgrips – Member 
New Zealand butter, pre EU, anyone?Where should we get our food from? I know, how about shipping it from the other side of the world! That’s eco-friendly, isn’t it?

:lol:

You appear to have completely missed that point.
EU stopped UK importing NZ butter.
Got to fix the market to justify CAP and pricing.
;-)

So, this morning’s Farming today program on Radio 4 has DC claiming UK is the only country with access to 500M people, to whom UK farmers can sell their goods. I guess he must have forgot to mention that Brussels is in the final stages of completing a trade agreement with the south American trading block which will inevitably put EU farmers under pressure. DC even mentioned British and Irish beef and lamb.

Perhaps Brussels plans an increase in the CAP to offset the inbalance.

Just goes to show, remainistas have absolutely no idea what’s being loaded into the pipeline, at Brussels.
All we can say is the future won’t be like the present, therefore voting to remain, so as to maintain the current status is ridiculous. Remain don’t know what they are voting for. However after 40 years of EU, I can’t say I’m impressed.
New Zealand butter, pre EU, anyone?……

I’m also intrigued by the 1975 generation who voted to enter the EU, most of them now want out. I guess after 40 years of it, they probably have a decent handle on why……..

Of course, if remain do manage to swing it. They could very well risk Nigel becoming our next PM.
8O

Edit:
DrJ – Member
United against Johnny Foreigner

Ah, yes, I almost forgot. Working late one evening earlier this week, I had the sureal experience of enduring a brief lecture from a Polish colleague who informed me:
“ the UK is shit. The UK is too Multi-Culti.“
I had no reply.

molgrips – Member
Can you make your point please caller?

After you dear.

And please avoid a repeat of your hysterical rant, above. Use your words.
:-)

molgrips – Member
 Well I’m shitting myself now. Oh, there might be a bit of a recession, they say. Well I’m **** if I lose my job, so thanks for that in advance boneheads

Have you been drinking?

binners – Member
I’m just struggling with one thing.

Nope, you’re struggling with a number of things. But you carry on posting, if it helps or even if it doesn’t………..
;-)

teamhurtmore – Member 
No just keeping in the spirit of the original point – the idea that voting to leave is voting to determine our way in the world is in itself baseless and is akin to a fairy tale – hence the relevance of the rainbow analogyThe simplistic notion of sovereignty plied by the OUTers is merely insulting those with the capacity for independent thought

Oh dear. More nastiness.

I suspect your definition of “determine” may = “dictate”

Which is not my definition.

Carry on!
:-)

:lol:
Remainsters in spiteful baseless smearing posts. Shocker!

Another reading the thread Fail.
;-)

Btw. Luv the suggestion to ask a politician a question in the hope of hearing a truthful answer.
Thats a doozey!
:-D

b r.

No one knows what stupidity is being cooked up in Brussels, right now.
So voting to stay is a massive gamble.

Voting to leave is voting to be able to determine our own way in the world.

richmtb – Member
69 pages

Yeap! It might appear that only this forum is capable of such awesomeness ;-)

I’m not convinced any points have been scored on the economic argument. Remain promising economic disaster as a result of leaving is laughable and easy to see it for what it is. Scaremongering.

No remainista can know what they’d be voting for.

At least leave voters know what they want.

On the morning of the 24th June, the world will still be turning while the UK and the EU plan the UK’s amicable departure, in a few years time. During which there won’t be economic collapse for the UK.

Remainsters, clinging to an old and broken paradigm.

What next from remain. Space Aliens attack UK and destroy all 26″ wheeled MTBs?

Time to move on. Deep breath, best foot forward.

molgrips – Member 
They will cherry pick interpretations to back up their predetermined point of view based on that sentiment.

I think you’re just as guilty of that, as most here.

Try listening to Steve Hilton, on this morning’s R4 Today program. He makes some very good points.

I hope UK votes to leave. There’s as much uncertainty in remaining as to leave. Who here knows what Brussels will do in 5 or 10 yrs time? See, just as much of the unknown as if we were to leave. Furthermore, how much does UK Joe public know about what is currently happening. Has anyone mentioned current EU negotiations with the South American trade block, which will see low cost Brazilian and Argentine Beef undercut UK and Irish producers?

I want UK to leave, so as to kick start phase 2 of the EU project. Phase one is spent, out dated and broken. Time not to leave, as such, but bringing about real change any member state can’t achieve with a vote in Brussels.

Drac – Moderator
And because of that I won’t be watching the other 1hr 10mins

And then.

Drac – Moderator
No idea if there is any but I’d imagine there is but I’ve not looked. I’m sure there’s some that are full of misconceptions too but hopefully not as pathetically melodramatic and untruthful with such a crap opening line.

Remainista, in, I won’t listen, my mind is closed, my view, institutionalised, shocker!
Stay classy
;-)

Junkyard – lazarus
We will recover – as we will from the great slump and bankers crash but the question is when.

This raises a curious point. We all know that in general, the future is a mystery to all. So I find it slightly strange the public ask what will the outcome be. Any answer is conjecture at best, scaremongering at worst.

If the UK remains, there’s no incentive for Brussels to change. Indeed, Brussels might argue that the UK remaining is confirmation the EU is just fine as is, which it is not.

Back to the original Q. The remain side have identified their strongest card is fear over the economy and remain now seek to fight their cause in that particular field. The public should recognize this and keep an open mind to the full spectrum of potential changes we might enjoy once we are free of Brussels, in our current situation.

Leaving is separation, not divorce and I have little doubt London and Brussels can be “grown up” about brexit.

Just spotted this thread. Aint the time to read 8 pages now.

Addressing the title. It appears quite straight forward to me.

Remainistas threaten economic apocalypse to frighten that the public into selecting economic wonderful at the price to accepting their political agenda.

“ To save your economic future, accept our political ideology“

Of course, theres no certainty of the UK economy being permanently diminished after brexit.
Nothing is a foregone conclusion.

As for not trusting the UK gov, I’d suggest EU parliament is worse.

Brussels recently admitting they’ve got it wrong.

Unfortunately, a vote to remain will only cement the UK into place, after which Brussels wont do anything useful for the UK.
The actions and behaviour coming out of Brussels pretty much forces the UK to leave, imo.

Amateurs! :-)

Make Chipotle, lime, mayonnaise and add to, almost anything.
8)

:lol: @ the pro EV types who are deliberately overlooking the insurmountable infrastructure & recharging issues.

“It’s ok, someone will fix it for us”.

lol’d also at recharging trucks on the roads(very amusing :-) ). But for anyone who would consider that a solution, as if our roads aren’t already clagged to walking pace with heavy goods vehicles. Would be crazy.

Not to mention on-the-move recharging would require the driving skills of Lewis Hamilton.
Oh, me bad. They’ll be an onboard app for that.

EVs really aren’t the solution.
:-)

Clue is in the title :-)

I cycle alone.

Hence: Solo – member.

allan23 – Member
Yeah, I’ll take that correction

Wasn’t intended as a correction. Just building on a good foundation.
:-)

poah – Member

Remember thats possible side effects

Death is a “possible” side effect?
:lol:

Poah’s list of doom is a great example of, “selective” internet “research”.

In other news, it’s currently dry and bright here. But it will rain later.
:lol:

allan23 – Member

NO particular DIET WORKS FOR EVERYONE‘s!!!! Differing life style choices.
;-)

However, based on the assumption, contributors here are all Human. Then we’re operating the same physiological equipment.
Lifestyle choices which dictate/influence dietary choices, will elicit a range of physiological responses/results.

But as we all possess a liver, a pancreas, etc, etc. Then the under lying manner in which our bodies process what they eat, is far more likely to be influenced by choices of what we eat and whether we exercise.

Select what to eat based on knowledge of how your body will process the foods you choose.

Get some exercise, doing something you enjoy.
:-D

molgrips – Member
What I am after is the least bad cheap one.

Somewhat amusing, after that gearbox bolt thread you dragged out for several pages although you later claimed to have already tightened the bolt/s in question after the first page.
;-)

However:
molgrips – Member
I have a small 1/4″ one
:lol:

All things come to he who waits.

wilburt – Member
wtf!! crisp sandwiches are basic fighting foder and should contain crisps thats it.

You’re obviously too poor to play.

Rubber_Buccaneer – Member
Who in their right mind eats white bread?

It contains way less rat shit, which may be a bonus, depending on preference.

bikebouy – Member
Mayo

Is the Devils work.

molgrips – Member
The point is to go for a holiday though, so somewhere other than where I live

If you’re still travelling to the US semi regularly, couldn’t there be an opportunity to view/find fossils there? 

theotherjonv – Member 
Do you think GB cycling’s past successes are ethically worthless because they had better technology / marginal gains programs, rather than just being the fastest riders?

Advancement of equipment for safety or performance purposes is ethical because all competitors are free to find and employ those advances.

Messing with the very physiology of an athlete is another issue altogether and I pity anyone who fails to distinguish between doping and technological advancement.

Already I’m detecting echoes of the Armstrong thread with folk seemingly convinced that being a cheat and a Bast*rd as Armstrong was. Is the only way to win.

Speeder – Member
It doesn’t matter how she came by it or how much she used of it, up until the start of the year it was LEGAL

Ah! I think I see my mistake now. I was assuming world class sport, was practised by naturally gifted, talented, dedicated sports Men and Women. Who pushed their natural abilities in competition to compete and win at whatever level, within the spirit of and up holding the highest levels of sportsmanship.

Apparently, I’m wrong (again) and actually, to be a top level athlete, all I needed to do was train as a solicitor in order to navigate my way through what is and isn’t legal.
:roll: