I could given them a printout of their normal blood results, circle a gym in the yellow pages, and tell them to consume less calories and move more.

@ DrP. Is that/Would that be the actual advice you would give?
I only ask as I believe you are an actual GP and so I’m just curious.

Edit:
I suppose another way to ask would be, does the NHS strictly instruct GPs on what advice to give on the matter of diet correction and exercise, or are GPs permitted a certain margin for including possibly, individually derived advice?

I’ve read some comments regarding stiffness, which reminded me of some reading I was doing recently on a related subject. It was suggested that excessive vibration will negatively effect overall cycling performance, IIRC something to do with either accelerated rider fatigue or additional energy req’d to power a buzzin bike.

If that indeed may be possible, then would having super stiff wheels actually possess the potential to detract from overall performance?

Obviously, at the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn’t want wheels that don’t track very wheel or flex excessively when you’re out of the saddle.

Edit:
Slight hijack 😉
@GT1972, What kind of wheel build are you having made at the moment and what would be on the sensible, but still very nice, list of wheels you’d like to have, or that you rate?

@ DrP. Thanks for that insight from your side of the screen, I appreciate it. After reading that I sympathize with how it must drag on people in your position, when you can’t perform your primary role, for being frustrated/confronted by the very people your trying to help. I’m guessing the issue for you and your colleagues is that it can go up a notch if you have to tell a parent their child is over weight/on the wrong diet, because then you’ll have crossed the border into the land of questioning someone’s parenting skills/choices.

I couldn’t watch the 4 OD thing, my browser said no and I had the internet dumb. I’m not so good with computers.

Snaps.

Thanks for the link, I’ll try to give it a look, but from DrP’s post, it sounds pretty grim:

It was a was programme about a completely avoidable problem – parents allowing their children to eat terrible food and drink terrible drinks, resulting in sickeningly overweight kids having their teeth pulled out

I admired the honesty of the consultants. It’s a shame they are ‘feared’ into shying away from the truth.
I haven’t seen the program, but I wonder why you put it like that.
Who/what’s intimidating the consultants? If that’s what you mean.

but I haven’t ridden them in heavy rain and they are tubs, not clinchers, so you don’t have the worry about them overheating.

My Dumbness is revealing itself now, I wasn’t aware of heat issues for carbon wheels, I thought the issue was lack of retardation, precipitating the additional purchase of carbon specific brake blocks.
My friend with the Aeolus D3s said he bought some carbon specific brake blocks which, in the dry, performed virtually as well, in his opinion, as when he was running alloy wheels with traditional brake blocks.

(although cup and cone
thats where I’m out, I’m never happy with the preloading, it drives me nuts. so I stick to sealed bearings.

mr_stru – Member

Is there any data on how tall a rim needs to be before it has any tangible aero effect?
Bontrager released a white paper discussing their Aeolus wheels and how they developed the rim leading edge. Obviously the paper is going to tell you the Aeolus is wonderful, but aside from that, it may offer an additional insight to the whole debate on aero rims. for example, those rims designed to deal with air flow, not directly inline with the direction of travel, etc.

Self built 1500gm for £300 odd for me.

Details?

I’ve been looking at the Hope hoops, I searched high-n-low for the Aeros with ZTR 400 rims, not just the RS monos (heavier).

I could only find a pair at Bike24 for 520 Euro, which given current exchange rates may well be inline with the approximate budget.

Although this info may not be applicable if you’re after a set of disc brake road wheels.

I came into work on them this morning and the ride was sublime. They are a little heavier than the Archetypes funnily enough (I think because the spokes are heavier in the Nemesis build) but they ‘roll’ so much smoother. That might not equate to speed but it felt lovely.

Isn’t that the nature of tubulars, rather than the wheels themselves?

The glue thing has always put me off Tubular tyres, but I noticed the schwalbe tubeless system might be worth a look as a close second?

I’m up for new wheels for the road bike. Yesterday I was looking, online, at Spada Stilletto, but I’m not convinced by the hubs.

Last year I was getting dangerously close to the buy button on a pair of Aeolus D3 3s. But decided against for now.

I’m feeling a bit ambivalent about braking performance for carbon rims. Probably being over picky, but I like good braking. However, after the description by GT1972, who wouldn’t have their interest in aero rims, reignited?

I’d be tempted to sell what I have and use the proceeds plus any tip-up, to buy new.

Silly me, I thought hormones had something to do with it.

C_G.

I sense your frustration at some of the comments posted on threads such as this. All I can do is suggest you role with it, don’t let it add to any problems you already have. Perhaps, rather, accept that out there, in the vast ignorance of the world, such opinions will persist, regardless of what others may know.

molgrips – Member

I decided to just nip it up

The Stabilizer Wins! yay 🙂

Op…. The torque man, the torque! What torque did you settle on?

Except we were talking about the scenario in which he can’t get an exact replacement (almost certain) and that VAG can’t supply a similar one (which seems likely, as it’s seems it’s not something they assemble themselves).
Given that it’s not a stretch bolt, and that it will have only been previously assembled once to a specified torque which won’t have resulted in plastic deformation (the likelihood of somebody having “nipped it up” on a non-serviceable unit is negligible) there will be no difference between the removed bolt and a brand new one – it’s actually preferable to using a new replacement which may not be exactly the same.

You’re repeating your point, and I don’t think anyone is suggesting the OP use a non identical bolt. However, you appear to be ignoring my explanation. So seeing as you won’t take the advice of someone in the “know” and seeing as you appear to need to demonstrate that you know more about the industry I work in, than I do. There’s nothing more I can do for you. You simply won’t be told. If this was your task, I’d happily go along with you using the original bolt, if for no other reason than to have you stop hassling me. It’s tiresome.

Cougar.
YGM.

Edit:
ampthill – Member
Presumably the bloke supplying the valve doesn’t suggest a torque?
I’ll get my coat
Not at all, it was a good suggestion.
🙂

Do you reckon a VAG bolt for a similar purpose (if such a thing exists) would be OK then?
Yes, for the reasons I have already stated in conjunction with the fact that OEMs prefer to use common fixings as much as possible, esp wrt the constraints which may be imposed during the main assembly process, including number of tools available at that station and costs of using an excessive number of uncommon fixings, for purchase and tooling reasons.

Otherwise it seems you do actually agree with me that there’s nothing much wrong with reusing the existing bolt.

No, I do not agree with you. If it’s wrong, you have a secondary problem, “nothing much” doesn’t come into it when you are relying on stuff to work within spec to perform a certain task.
The risk of breaking down because hydraulic fluid has leaked out of the G/B for lack of achieving the correct clamping force between the valve assembly housing and whatever it fixes to, is not one I would willing face for lack of trying to source and use a new bolt and by doing so massively increasing the chances of a completely successful valve replacement. This is the basis of my recommendation.
Ultimately there is too little known about this repair/valve replacement, so excising logical, sensible, hopefully inexpensive practices such as using a new bolt, shouldn’t be dismissed, imo.

Hahaha.. lol Trust me, I have done a LOT of research on this.
I don’t doubt that, you’ve already explained you’ve more time than cash. I haven’t questioned your resolve, but exploding at the suggestion of taking the car to the garage didn’t help.

However, if we might be permitted to sensibly discuss this, I would suggest that your research has lead you to a few conclusions, which seem to coincide with internet use, only.
Failure to find a torque spec online, doesn’t mean it isn’t published, While not finding that torque is decidedly inconvenient (I sympathize), those in the know, here, have pointed out that production lines building said G/Bs will use driving devices with pre-set torque values, so the data is somewhere. It’s just that google may not be able to help.

If you could have discerned the G/B supplier (is the supplier company name on the G/B) then e-mailing them might have provided you with the torque value you need. What have you to lose?

Anyway, have you reattached the valve assembly to the gearbox now? I assume this is an insitu task?

Oh good.
😆

Here comes the hammer!

Please don’t use stainless steel in this application, it will be carbon steel for a reason. You might get away with stainless but it’s not uncommon for stainless steel bolts to cause more problems than they solve due to their susceptibility to chloride stress corrosion cracking.

When I suggested using a new bolt, I had intended that the OP would obtain one from VAG, irrespective of this particular repair.
Doing so would take care of the question of material. I wouldn’t suggest the OP goes and uses just a new bolt, even if there is a material choice available. One reason being Auto OEMs are either compelled or choose to use fixings which may have coatings applied to them in some cases.

The minefield grows larger. If a new bolt/s can be obtained from VAG as a fixing for any number of uses on the gearbox. Then I’d consider replacement for new. If a bolt can’t be obtained from VAG, then the decision is made for the OP. He’ll re-use the bolt/s they have.

Dear Moderator.

You have mail.

So why the requirement to replace after 5 uses, when any of that could have happened at any time after the first installation?

😆

Just not a very good one judging by your initial quesion
😆

molgrips – Member

I could put the cat among the pigeons by calling myself an engineer….. let’s see how that goes
This is STW, where anything can happen. Just don’t take it seriously. Oh!, hang on!

It really pisses me off how people say ‘take it to a garage’.. ok .. you gonna pay for that? Do you think I’d be farting about with it on the driveway if I had the cash to pay someone else? Let me remind you that all this shit started when I took it to a bloody garage.

Further consideration makes me question your assumption that any independent VAG specialist you might have taken your car to, wouldn’t have seen this issue before. Indeed, there could very well be said independents for whom this repair is familiar and a regular service they might provide at nominal cost and far less stress to the owner.
🙂

cookeaa – Member

Calm down Solo.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love it if engineering was a better recognised and respected profession in the UK,
Is totally calm, but you knew that, once you spotted the smiley ^^^, here:
😉

Personally I applaud anyone who has the gumption to pick up a spanner rather than dial a technician and just throw money at them…
I think there’s a half-way-house, provided said spanner owner then doesn’t proceed to bicker with folk who’s field of expertise is relevant and who may be willing to offer useful advice.

Which leads us neatly to, STW forum dreadlord: arcer!
In which case you replace it every installation – I don’t have a problem with that. Though if you’ve fitted it correctly using the correct torque, then that provides the guarantee that you have no plastic deformation.
Who’s up for educating Arcer? He seems to want to become a mechanical Engineer.

Somebody reassure me, quick!

I’m developing a technique for not educating confrontational forum members in the deeper arenas of Engineering. I’ve no wish to waist hours in bickering on here, proving to your none Engineering view of the world, how it all really works.
I’m the Engineer, take my advice or don’t.

A driver more interested with facebook than looking where they’re going

Good point! IME, today it must be 95% of all women under the age of 30yrs are constantly looking down as they drive, when they sit waiting at traffic lights, pretty much anytime they are in the car, behind the steering wheel.
It would seem they believe if they hide their phone on their lap, then nobody else will know what they’re doing. I suppose that they are constantly looking into their lap doesn’t seem to be a “give-away” as to what really has their attention while in charge of a motor vehicle.
Crazy!.

And yes, I know there’s a significant proportion of men who flout the law too. It’s just that in my experience, recently, nearly all women in that age group seem to be busy on their phones while driving.
Flame me if you want to!

molgrips – Member

That is awesome ^^^

Yes, Engineering, often over looked and usually under valued. Yet when needed, so apparently indispensable.
A bit more respect for Engineers, anyone?
😉

A road route I use to ride, ran through a hamlet which had a dual use footpath/cycle path. The surface of the path was so uneven it really was too uncomfortable to ride. However, the real deal breakers were the dog walkers. Effectively it was a pedestrian only foot path and I was happy to yield and ride on the road….

Oh no!, that’s when car drivers would pass me without pulling out to go round me, some hit the horn and would point, furiously, at the foot/cycle path. There was no way I could explain my decision, but this didn’t stop them making an instant judgement, resulting in them sentencing me to death, by driving so close to me.

I don’t ride that route anymore.

aracer -Member
Fairy nuff
😆

I’d opt for disc brakes if they came as standard on a new bike. Just for the wet weather thing.

I’m currently using some Mavic Kysrium SLS clinchers with dura ace 9000 brakes and the pads have small lumps of the rim brake surface embedded in them.
I’m sure most are familiar with the grinding sound conventional brakes makes on a wet alloy rim. It’s not an illusion, we really are grinding down that rim and so for me, replacing a brake disc is preferable to replacing the wheel/wheel rim, albeit that having to replace the wheel for brake wear is thankfully a very infrequent event in my experience.

You could always explain which of my assumptions is incorrect if you’d prefer to continue fighting.
You have deliberately missed my first contribution to this thread which allows you to overlook the OP disproportionate response towards me.
And now you’re resorting to baiting, which is against the forum rules.
Do you really need another love letter from the Mods?
I’ll leave you now to bicker with some other poor forum member, you big hitter you.

Serious question (not having a go) how would that make a difference?
You’ve ranted at me for several posts and now you want to chat?

OP.
I’d of gone in cautiously at 8 to 10Nm (although allegedly I don’t fix or advocate anyone else fixing stuff, etc) , so the suggestion by The Stabilizer sounds sensible to me. Again, if your budget will stretch to it, use a new bolt. I strongly suggest you do NOT lube the thread.
At this time I can’t think of anymore advice to offer. Good luck.

I’m not sure what the big problem is with fixing stuff yourself. Even most parts of modern cars (or other consumer stuff) aren’t all that complicated or difficult, and if you have time to spend and can get the parts you can generally fix stuff where a garage would just replace whole units.
You’ve made an assumption, which is incorrect. But please don’t let that stop you from ranting, some more, if you really need to.

Edit:
If the OP believes it’s critical to achieve good clamping force for the duration of subsequent ownership, I’d suggest a new bolt, if they can be sourced as single items/in small numbers.

I’m not holding my breath
Perhaps some more decaf and you could try not touching your keyboard for an hour.
No charge!
🙂

I would suspect that a VW dealer would probably refuse if it’s not a standard procedure as they’d be worried about warranty etc.
Yeah, I noticed that franchised dealers weren’t going to assist, I own VAG stuff too and it’s a PITA, but ho-hey.
Hence my initial referral to an independent VAG specialist.

I reckon the Stabilizer’s suggestion is the best bet in the absence of an OEM supplier torque spec.

Yes, of course it does – but it’s not published,
[molgripsmode]
I think you know that you really shouldn’t claim that the torque value isn’t published
[/molgripsmode]

Why do you have to turn every thread into a shit slinging fest?
Not at all, I made the perfectly sensible suggestion of taking your car to the garage. Where the staff there would have likely fitted your valve/s for you, if you had turned up with the valve/s in your pocket and your car.
However, after my sensible suggest of going to the garage, you went into orbit. You might do well to try the decaf mate.

thestabiliser – Member
M5? Just give it a nip FFS.

I don’t think you’ll find that particular measure of torque quoted for anything on say… a Toyota.
But yes, perfect, common sense eventually prevails.
It’s an M5 which should tell one, something.

and wrong – I could pick your post apart and point out where but CBA
Hhmmm, so you’ve also visited a power train assembly supplier to see their line and see people assembling equipment at a station using tools pre-set to certain torque values. Nice one. And there was me thinking you were thinking such a supplier left greg the gear box builder to decide for himself what today’s gearbox value assembly, fixing bolt tightening torque should be.

Well clearly you have connections
Don’t you have micro switch contacts to de-carbon with your file. In them olden days we’d of used t-Cut or brasso to polish off the carbon and minimize the surface scratching on the switch contacts so as to offset the time taken for the carbon to build up and once again prevent the switch from operating properly. But, hey, well, as it’s you.
🙂

honeybadgerx – Member

I think it’s to do with compression/extension of the bolt when you’re tightening/loosening it, so that there is greater friction on different portions of the bolt depending whether it is going in or out. I’ve tried thinking about it in a more exact manner, but I fear my head might explode.
It can be a very complex calculation, the Analysis guys at a place I worked at, about this time last year, just groaned when I mentioned thread torques and years ago a friend of mine working in a specific area of the offshore industry said his company employed a few guys who could do that shit, but they didn’t socialize too well, had poor personal hygiene and strange habits/twitches. But they could calc the thread torque loads and for fun they use to include the effect of paint on the thread, including the shear values for the paint itself.

So it’ll be a walk in the park for Molgrips.

It’s not published, cos it’s not a recommended repair procedure.
Of course, you are always correct… However, once upon a time a man in a factory built the gearbox you are messing with and the tool set to drive in the bolt in question, did so to a specific torque, so a torque value does exist, fact!

Hmm.. so let me see. £1500 for a new unit, £450 + lots of postage for a refurb by an indy, or £60. Ooh that’s a tough one.. hmmm…
It may be tough for you to understand, certainly seems that way to me.
Not to mention that you’re focusing solely on cost in GBP and not including the cost of hassle. Again, as always, you won’t be told, as you are correct as usual.

Do you think I’d be farting about with it on the driveway if I had the cash to pay someone else? Let me remind you that all this shit started when I took it to a bloody garage.

Ah!, it’s Molgrips, in Hissy-fit mode… Again.
So, you’re throwing your spanners out of your shed now, cos you own a car you can’t afford to run and repair. That sounds like all kinds of smart, you know, the kind of smart that replaces only the one valve.

OK. Provided it was ever tested, catalogued and published
You think the power train dept for that OEM hasn’t tested a fleet of vehicles to establish just exactly this type of thing. That the bolt didn’t come loose within 150K miles? I work in the Auto Design industry and I can assure you someone knows the torque, exactly.
Personally I’d of approached the G/B supplier for the torque spec.
If I wasn’t too busy ranting on a cycling forum…
😉

cbmotorsport – Member

Just look at the materials you are bolting together, the function that they are performing, and tighten as necessary. Exercise some common sense.

Alternatively find the correct torque spec, as developed during testing, carried out by the particular OEM in question.

I’ve an A8. Wouldn’t dream of friggin with the transmission, that’s what independent VAG specialists are for. A nice one might even tell you what torque to use. This would give me more time for changing my own car tyres, for example…
Then there are workshop manuals available online, also.
Other thoughts drift towards the application of the correct thread lock adhesive to prevent the bolt in question, loosening in service. However, if thread lock is applicable, there will be some indication of it’s use on the thread, from the initial installation.

Edit:
can you make a mark on the bolt and the corresponding metal its in then undo it a bit and retighten to that mark with the torque wrench set low, and then gradually increase the torque wrench settings until it reaches the mark?
Do not do this.

I would not suggest you use your torque wrench for loosening said bolt

Drac – Moderator
If you report them we can investigate and delete them, subject to the rules.
My emphasis.
😉

I don’t believe it could be any simpler than this!

Post an add, while obeying the rules. If anyone tries to piss on your parade, use the “report post button”. If you’re a genuine and honest seller, you’ve nothing to fear.

If you post in breach of the rules, expect to be dealt with.

We’re here for a common interest in cycling, we’re a community and it’s as good as we make it. If folk turn up and rock the boat, it’ll get sorted by those with the authority to look into it, subject to the rules. Not reporting for fear of upsetting those who may need to be reported, does no favours for our community, so tip-in, be part of the team and keep the classifieds as they were meant to be. With the assistance of the Mods.

Carry on.