No, stems do not need a longer expander to “clamp” on to.

Manufacturers like Specialized and Trek are very clear that the expander should be fully in line with the stem. Referring to whether or not the clamping force is sufficient to crush the stem is an over simplification and a red herring. You will commonly find similar guidance and accompanying diagrams published by the big manufacturers, e.g. the diagram below published by Specialized and that on page 8 of this Deda manual.

Invisiframe have a video guide on their website and on Youtube:

This article[/url] also gives some more detail and tips.

With regard to adding baby shampoo to the water when using the wet application method, it seemed to me to slow down the rate at which the tape adheres to the frame (I suspect it’s best to add only a small amount, to limit that effect).

Jambalaya, I think you are probably right to criticise Corbyn’s failure to condemn Maduro/what is happening in Venezuela.

In the interest of balance, would you please also share with us all your views on Margaret Thatcher and her relationship with Pinochet.

TJ – you and I have discussed your perception of commuting motorists as always being stressed out and rushing for no reason. Sound familiar?

Not stressed out or rushing Scotroutes – just averse to wasting time

Those car drivers you were discussing with Scotroutes are probably also just averse to wasting time.

I don’t do it in a car

In that case you will be unnecessarily impeding the flow of traffic. When the lights change and stop oncoming traffic, there will only be a short window of opportunity for cars to turn right before they too are stopped by the lights, depending upon the sequencing and whether there is a right turn green signal. If one or two cars are in the box already, then that could make a significant difference to the length of traffic that builds up behind them, which could have a cumulative effect over multiple sequences of the light.

Life is short. Don’t make it any shorter than it would otherwise be by taking chances in traffic when there is a safe, easy to use alternative.

It just sometimes takes an age to change

Change your attitude to the commute, and try to make it as leisurely a mental experience as you can. If you leave sufficiently early, then so what if it takes a while for the lights to change, just use it as a chance to relax and watch the world go by.

I have using push button crossing even if legal for bikes

I presume you mean ‘hate’, and if so I know what you mean (if there’s not a continuous stream of traffic, I will usually not push the button and will wait instead for a safe gap to cross). That said, I think any car drivers will realise that it’s best for them as well if you use the crossing, so I would not hesitate to use it. If it really bothers you, you could always walk across the crossing.

Brush slices with olive oil and grill on both sides till crisp and brown (~3 mins), then serve with

– prosciutto
– asparagus and shaved parmesan
– fresh red chilli and rocket
– anchovy, rosemary, lemon and olive oil dressing

(From The River Cafe Cookbook)

Top with slices of Taleggio cheese, and grill so that the cheese melts.

(From Made in Italy by Giorgio Locatelli)

But what about the bung, jury still seems out!

The jury is not out as far as the manufacturers are concerned: I don’t know of any that say otherwise than that the bung should line up with the stem clamp area. The leaflets supplied with stems usually all have a diagram and instructions similar to this one

If bung does not have a lip at the top, it may be possible to undo it and re-position it lower down inside the steerer. If so be careful when doing this because it is easy for the bung to slide down further than you want, and to have to fiddle with bits of bent wire etc. to pull it back up. It’s also probably not something that was intended to be fitted and re-fitted multiple times in the same fork, and I would be concerned that doing so too often might cause damage (scoring) to the inner surface of the steerer tube as a result of the rotation of the bung before it sticks and starts to grip.

If the bung does have a lip at the top, then unless it is long enough to accomodate the stem being lowered you will either need to cut the steerer or replace it with a longer bung. Obviously cutting the steerer is irreversible. Longer bungs may or may not be available for the steerer, depending upon what the internal diameter is. The longest I have seen is this one, which is 90mm long, and which I have fitted to one of my bikes to allow me to change the stem height within a wide range.

Taste is all a matter of personal preference, so threads like this asking whether you should get a grinder, buy pre-ground etc. are not really the best way to go about things.

My advice would be to go into some coffee shops that serve filter coffee in addition to espresso, ideally ones that offer V60/dripper, aeropress or, even better, Chemex, and see how much you like them.

If you like them a lot and really want to be able to have something similar at home, then you will need to get a grinder and buy similarly good quality beans.

If you decide that what the shops serve is not significantly better than whatever instant or pre-ground coffee you are drinking at home, then good for you, since it will cost you less.

At the and of the day, personal taste is the only thing that matters, and you like whatever you like. What others think or tell you about your preference is irrelevant.

Use only ‘just enough’ ? I suppose you could start without and add a tiny bit if it slips?

a bit of care to apply just enough mitigates this risk more or less entirely

it doesn’t really matter whether you have a bung or not, it shouldn’t break under the relatively low forces involved.

Trek and Specialiazed are unequivocal in saying no carbon paste on steerers, and other manufacturers also state that the bung must be in the same plane as the steerer clamp (I think if the bung is only half as deep as the steerer, then there might be the potential for a stress riser).

Carbon steerer breakages are rare, but they do happen and the consequences are potentially fatal. Trek and Specialiazed are two of the biggest bike manufacturers in the world, and given the potential financial consequences of getting this wrong, especially in the litigious USA, I would expect their advice to be the best.

If my understanding is correct, the bung really has nothing to do with the stem, and is purely for pre-loading the headset bearings?

It’s not as simple as that. Many manufacturers require the part of the steerer enclosed by the stem clamp to have the bung inserted to the FULL depth/height of the stem, i.e. the bung serves a structural function to strengthen the steerer where it is clamped and resist any crushing forces on the steerer.

Given the relatively short depth/height of most steerer bungs, that usually means that only 5mm-10m at most of spacers can be placed above the steerer.

In practice very many people ignore this and get away with it, but it’s against many manufacturers’ advice.

I’d always stick a bit of carbon anti-seize on the inner surface

Both Trek and Specialiazed advise not to use carbon paste on carbon steerers, because of the risk of the paste migrating below the stem, and the inevitable small movements of the spacers causing the paste to act as an adbrasive on the steerer.

Murder-lite is my description for when the murder is done off scene, body located, and investigation commences…because she doesn’t use a sleep function on her audioplayer, so doesn’t want to wake up to some creepy scene playing

Martin Beck? (although they don’t have much, if anything, in the way of humour)

The final incident was (to paraphrase): ‘You’re an abject professional failure because…’.

That’s just nasty.

I must have missed that bit[/quote]

When I tried to find the specific comments in question again last night to re-read them before posting on this thread, I could not find them and supposed that they had been deleted (by a moderator possibly), but TJ’s response to them was still there.

As others have said, it is difficult to discern nuance and tone in the written word of posts on an internet forum, but I had the very clear sense that – in conjunction with some of that poster’s other comments – the concern being expressed about TJ’s work issues and his well being, was quite false, and was being done deliberately to wind him up.

any chance your walking and it’s not road shoes.

I would go further and say any chance you’re walking some distance/on rough or awkward terrain, and it’s not spd race type shoes with a rigid sole.

If you like to explore tracks that you have never ridden before, and you are the type that tends to push on rather than turn back when the track deteriorates, then you may find that you will be better off with shoes that are more capable on those sections where you are forced to dismount and walk.

For that reason I’ve switched on my gravel bike from spd race type shoes to Shimano XM7 shoes (which have a Vibram walking sole). Because I was concerned that the XM7’s were less stiff and might not provide enough support on a standard spd pedal, I also fitted spd trail pedals to give a bit more support.

frankconway, I agree with your comment

Some contributors need to understand that overbearing and aggressive posts written in a domineering style do not generate discussion; they just cause interested parties to say…..’stuff this’ and walk away.

It’s even more disappointing when some of the protagonists have prior form and have publicly acknowledged their argumentative approach – but do nothing to change their behaviour.

However, it is very understandable that such a debate can get very heated/passionate:

a) because being confronted by an aggressive dog can be terrifying. For me just writing about it brings back the strong memory of the unpleasant adrenaline rush and ‘fight or flight’ syndrome kicking in. I suspect that many of those who wrote strongly about out of control dogs experienced something similar, and that can cause people to be very forthright when writing about the subject, especially when dog owners are dismissive/demonstrate an entitled attitude.

b) some people on the thread seemed to be dismissive of those fears, based on their own experience (including as dog owners) implying that the problem was with the person who is afraid and might possibly overreact or act in a way which makes things worse.

Finally, Boblo made the following comment on that thread:

There’s a rather unpleasant bullying undertone on here now.

Seems *some* people have recognised a certain, formerly argumentative individual is trying to change/make amends and they are going out of their collective way to bait and make capital of this. It’s not right and *they* should be **** ashamed of themselves.

Having re-read some of the comments, I agree with Boblo: there seemed to be repeated goading, condescending and sneery remarks playing the man (TJ) and not the ball, which looked like they were deliberately intended to provoke an emotional response.

Unless she has already read some of her works and not liked them (or has already read the complete canon), how about Agatha Christie? She is the best selling novelist of all time for good reason. The collected short stories editions on Kindle are good and each story is ideal for a short read in bed.

Chapeau for taking my criticism in such good spirit and humour.

I was right then too.

Ferrari agreed with your dad when they developed the F40.

That may be true if you come from rim brakes. If you’re used to discs then rim brakes are ridiculous faffy things and discs are familiar and faff free.

How many threads can you find on STW and other cycling forums about how to set up and adjust disc brakes, how to bleed brakes, about disc brakes not working correctly, about leaks, about contaminated pads, about brakes fading?

Now compare the answer with how many you can find about adjusting calliper rim brakes and problems with them.

Disc brakes may be familar to you and faff free in your experience, but your experience is clearly not universally representative of many other disc brake users.

They’re penny farthing era embarrassments which would cause me endless angst being on my bike.

Like Captain Flashheart, you are reduced to an argument which has nothing to with actual merits or otherwise of the technology, and which resembles a teenager telling their parents that they cannot wear last year’s trainers because they are no longer fashionable and their mates are all wearing a different brand.

Sadly there is no realistic prospect of even a majority of dog owners ensuring that they have control of their dogs, whether by training them to have 100% reliable recall or keeping them on a lead. So we are forced to have to consider how best to respond to aggressive and even attacking dogs (and their pond life owners). I am reminded of the advice in Richard’s Bicycle Book published in the 1970s:

If the dog attacks: one defense is aerosol pepper sprays made for this purpose. They have a range of about ten feet and are light enough to clip to your handlebars. A water pistol loaded with a water-amonia solution will also work but is a good deal less convenient. If you have neither of these and can’t or won’t climb a tree get a stick or a large rock. No? The bicycle pump. Try to ram it down his throat. In any event, don’t cower or cover up, because the dog will only chew you to ribbons. Attack. Any small dog can simply be hoisted up by the legs and his brains dashed out. With a big dog you are fighting for your life. If you are weaponless try to tangle him up in your bike and then strangle him. Kicks to the genitals and which break ribs are effective. If you have got a pump or a stick hold it at both ends and offer it up to the dog horizontally. Often the dog will bit the stick/pump and hang on. Immediately lift the dog up and deliver a very solid kick to the genitals. Follow up with breaking the dogs ribs or crushing its head with a rock. If worst comes to worst ram your entire arm down its throat. He will choke and die. Better your arm than your throat.

Discs are better.

Discs offer no benefit over a good rim brake for the OP’s requirements, and arguably only have negatives for the OP’s intended use (comparative cost, faff and weight).

Why use early 20th century technology?

Because it works. If you are reduced to saying that something should be rejected simply because it is old technology, then you have exposed the weakness of your argument. The fact that something has worked successfully for a 100 years is not actually a reason to discard it (q.v. threaded vs. press fit bottom brackets).

OP, I was in a similar position to you at one point. I had a good quality touring bike, which was set up with (for the time) fastish wheels and 23c tyres, but was neverthless a tourer with heavier gauge tubing, cantilever brakes and a rear rack. I wanted something a bit nicer, lighter and faster, and initially I was going to get a top end audax machine. However, I realised that most of my riding on it would not be audaxes or long day rides, and that the bike would only be ridden for quick blasts in the evening or a morning at the weekend. Consequently I decided that the best tool for the job was a full on road race bike, even though I never raced on it.

Since you have a tourer which you can use for more relaxed rides/rides in bad weather and possibly for any gravel type roads for which you would not use the MTB, you can similarly choose a road bike that is specifically suited for quick blasts.

Taking this to an extreme, you might even decide to go for an extremely aero set up and fit which you might not like riding for a whole day, but I would not do that, and would prefer a set up that I could ride all day long in comfort if I wanted. As akira says, whatever bike you get, you need to get the right size and the fit set up correctly. A bottom of the range Defy or similar that is the right size and fits you well, will be far better than any top end machine that is the wrong size or not fitted to you properly.

I don’t know what the terrain around Adelaide is like, but if most of your riding will be 1-2 hour blasts, you might prefer not to have a 36 inner ring (in fact if the terrain does not have steep/long hills, and/or you are fit, I would prefer a 42 tooth inner, and fit the 36 or a 39 only when I needed it).

Since you have a number of local bike shops, start off by getting some test rides. Also I would strongly recommend a bike fit if you have that option locally. Some of the bike shops may offer fitting, but you want to be sure that they are not trying to fit you to the bike they want to sell you, so I would suggest asking around for recommendations.

Why couldn’t you use the FSA adaptor in the CRC link? (Genuine question – I don’t know if it would work.)

The internal diameter of the Praxis one narrows in the middle, which is why a cartridge square taper bottom bracket will not fit it according to the CRC Q&A page.

The FSA one will accept a square taper cartridge according to the CRC Q&A page, but the OP was concerned about it being semi-permanent. Personally, I would not want to use a cartridge bottom bracket in such an adapter, since I cannot help thinking that the repeated torque applied in installing and removing the cartridge to replace it when it has reached the end of its life or develops a fault, is going to lead to problems with the press fit at some point.

I agree with you about how good Shimano square taper bottom brackets are, but I think you might do better to store your Middleburn chainset and plan that your next frame will be standard BSA thread, and in the meantime start a new thread asking what are the best bearings to use with your current set up (obviously check for previous threads on the subject first).

If you read the Q&A’s on that CRC page, you will see that it is not suitable for cartridge bottom brackets (which pretty much rules out square taper) and that according to CRC “external cup bottom brackets are intended for use with this adaptor”.

It seems to me that you are trying to marry two standards which were never intended to be compatible. I suggest you provide more detail about what you are trying to achieve (why square taper etc.), and people may be able to provide better advice and/or point you in the direction of alternative options.

Garlic prawn linguine with cherry tomatoes

Heat a couple of tablespoons of olive oil in a saute pan (or frying pan if large enough to contain the pasta at the end) at a medium heat.
Add a pinch of dried chilli flakes and a finely chopped garlic clove and cook till the garlic is ‘pale gold’ (beige).
Add around half a dozen prawns and cook for half a minute to a minute, then turn them over and cook another half a minute to a minute.
Add between 6-8 cherry tomatoes, sliced in half, and cook for a few minutes, adding salt and pepper to season.

In the meantime cook 75g-100g of linguine or spaghetti in approximately a litre of boiling water with half a teaspoon of salt added to it. Cook it till it’s ‘al dente’ (so 10 minutes if the De Cecco brand), then quickly drain and add the pasta to the saute/frying pan, together with a good handful of finely chopped flat leaf parsley.

Allow half a minute to a minute for the pasta to cook a bit more in the juices and then serve with some bread (focaccia is good) to mop up the spicy garlicky tomatoey juices at the end.

You could leave out the prawns for a vegetarian version.

Whilst I appreciate Slowster’s comments, it’s worth pointing out that the first grinder up there is almost £1700 and the second is almost £700. I think, and as with many things, the 80:20 rule really comes into play when considering the making of coffee at home.

Indeed. What I was trying to say, rather badly, is that it’s worth paying for good quality beans which are more tolerant of any weakness in equipment or technique, and even then it may may be necessary to try several different ones before finding one you like and sticking with it.

It’s a lot easier for coffee shops to use beans for which dialling in the grind is more difficult and may require to be adjusted throughout the day, because they have better kit and/or they can afford the wastage.

Varies between bags of the same beans too, but usually not by much. Worth just sticking to the one bean when you find the right one for you. Or getting a grinder that allows you to easily change between settings.

Don’t really understand the popularity of those subscription things where you get a different bag every week for that reason. Can take a bag of beans just to get the grind dialled in.

In my experience some beans/blends have a much wider sweetspot when it comes to getting the grind and everything else right, and usually they are more expensive, e.g. Square Mile’s blend for Milk Bar. So buying beans like that can significantly compensate for limitations in equipment and skills.

Similarly, the very best conical burr grinders* make it much easier to get a decent shot from even the most unforgiving beans, without having to dial in the grind.

I think that to get the best out of a weekly subscription where the coffee changes each week, you either need very good skills to dial in the grinder without wasting too many shots or a high end conical burr grinder, or you drink most/all of the beans as brewed coffee.

* For anyone wondering what these are, this (a Mazzer Robur Electronic grind on-demand) is an example of a high quality conical burr grinder, of the type which you would expect to find in the bettter coffee shops (although I know the big chains do the non-grind on-demand version with a thwacker type doser).

In contrast this flat burr commercial grinder (Mazzer Super Jolly) which is the workhorse grinder in many coffee shops, will require much more attention to dialling in the grind and adjusting the setting more frequently.

I agree that children should be allowed – and even encouraged – to ride on pavements, and they should only start to ride on the roads, especially unaccompanied, when they have sufficient awareness, self-discipline and skill to do so reasonably safely.

However, that doesn’t mean that children should be just left to learn for themselves how to ride safely on the pavement. Riding on the pavement should be where they are taught the beginnings of safe, considerate cycling and roadcraft. That means teaching them how to use the brakes properly, including emergency braking; learning to anticipate and spot hazards and ride accordingly; slowing down and if appropriate stopping when meeting a pedestrian, a dog walker or someone pushing a baby buggy etc. Those skills will then stand them in good stead when they start to ride on the road.

The fact that the child in this accident went over the bars, suggests that they were riding too fast for the conditions, were not adequately aware of what was happening around them, and lacked the skill to emergency brake safely.

I blame the parents.

Craft Active Extreme long sleeve base layers are currently £22 at Wiggle[/url].

Prior to integrated shifters, it was quite uncomfortable to ride on the hoods for prolonged periods

This is cobblers. What probably made the biggest improvement in riding on the brake levers was the introduction of rubber hoods, which pre-dated Ergolevers and STI shifters by a couple of decades. Even then, not all rubber hoods were the same: the brown hoods fitted as OEM standard on Weinmann brake levers found on many bikes were more like rigid plastic than rubber, and I remember the vast improvement when I changed mine for much softer black rubber ones (also made by Weinmann). Changes in the general shape/profile of brake levers made by Shimano and Campag in the 80s and 90s improved their ergonomics further.

With regard to why frames were made with horizontal top tubes showing short amounts of seatpost, most seatposts were 250mm or less, so even if manufacturers had overcome the lack of suitable lugs by using fillet brazing to make a compact/sloping frame, they would not have had the components needed to build it into a bike.

Consequently when Giant introduced its compact frames with Mike Burrows’ input, it also had to develop and supply its own range of extra long seatposts to sell with them.

cinnamon_girl – Member

@hols2 – is that Sipowicz? Excellent choice!

hols2 – Member

Buntz from Hill Street Blues, but basically the same character.

It’s an awful choice: his character was not likeable and often behaved badly or bent/broke the rules. It’s interesting that of all the characters in Hill Street Blues, you have picked one of the least appropriate as a positive male role model. I suppose you have forgotten those who were good role models, like the character played by Daniel J Travanti, Captain Frank Furillo, because they were not as attractive as the flawed ones, or maybe you simply would not be able to recognise a genuinely positive role model, like the many who have suggested their favourite bad boy action hero (although I think they at least have the excuse of having their tongue in their cheek).

Brexit Bulldog is good because its a good impression. Some of the impressions are shite.

It’s absolutely not a good impression of David Davis. It’s a caricature, like Alf Garnett (of whom the David Davis impression often reminds me because of his bombastic xenophobia and racism), which is blackly funny because the ridiculous deluded self-confidence of the caricature seems to be uncomfortably close to the truth when considering what David Davis has said about the strength of Britain’s negotiating position, and the reality that is increasingly becoming apparent.

Many of the Dead Ringers impressions are not that great, as demonstrated by the need for the character to tell the listeners who they are at the beginning of some sketches. What makes it great is having good material that shows up the cant, deceit and hypocrisy of the current crop of deeply flawed politicians and the mess that they have created.

I think the sketches with Theresa May and Arlene Foster have been even better than the Brexit Bulldog ones, like their press conference where they agreed that they could not understand how they had not yet made a deal, since they had so much in common – “we’re both cold and judgemental”.

I’ve not used one, but if anything it sounds like too fine a grind rather than too course (too fine a grind will similarly choke an espresso machine, whereas too course results in water flowing way too quickly through the coffee grounds).

You might want to compare what you are doing with the the Hasbean brew guide here, even though you are presumably using pre-ground.

I emailed Nationwide Building Society today to ask why this exclusion had been introduced, and received the following reply:

Whilst we accept an individual’s choice to wear a helmet or not, we feel the requirement to wear a helmet whilst cycling is a responsible approach to encourage safe cycling for our members. This change is purely for the safety of our members.

Although, if a customer was not wearing a helmet, but the injury suffered is unrelated to not wearing a helmet we would consider the claim and we will always apply a fair and reasonable approach.

So, this was not a commercial decision imposed by the Underwriters or taken to reduce the price Nationwide pay for the cover, but a paternalistic attempt to influence/restrict people’s behaviour.

I have replied pointing out the very limited scientific/statistical evidence in favour of compulsory helmet wearing, referring them the information published by Cycling UK at http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets, and have asked them to quote the evidence for their decision.

It looks like Nationwide’s action stems from the cultural values associated with its being a mutual society which was established and exists solely to act in the interests of its members. Unfortunately in this case the desire to ‘look after’ its members has led it to overreach its responsibility.

As Nationwide has noted, the exclusion also applies even if the injury is totally unrelated to whether or not a helmet is worn. They say that in those circumstances they would apply a fair and reasonable approach (although such a decision may rest with the Underwriters rather than Nationwide), but the point of insurance is ‘peace of mind’, which means knowing that you are covered (rather than uncertainty regarding whether the insurer would waive the exclusion).

Given that there is evidently no commercial reason for this exclusion, I think it is a very bad decision on their part. It is very easy to imagine scenarios in which the application of this exclusion is clearly going to be wholly unnecesarily detrimental to members, to an extent that far outweighs the inadequately proven benefits of compulsory helmet wearing.

NB I’ve posted this on both Singletrackworld and the Cycling UK forum, since there are threads about this running on both forums, and I think it’s important that people are aware of the grounds for this decision by Nationwide.

an insurer stipulating that the insured carry out basic safety measures seems very fair to me

Just because something seems fair, OK or reasonable to you or anyone else, does not make it so.

As others have pointed out, there is not a compelling scientific/statistical evidence base for compulsory helmets, and it is that which needs to inform and influence decisions about making them compulsory, especially legally compulsory. If collectively we are just doing to base important decisions on how things seem to us, or on our own personal prejudices, then we will make bad/sub-optimal decisions.

The Nationwide is a business and this is, on the face of it, purely a commercial decision by one business, and the nature of competition and the free market should mean that if it is a bad decision, then people can take their business elsewhere.

However, I don’t think it is quite as simple as that. As has been pointed out above, the underwriter used by Nationwide makes no such requirement in the policies it underwrites for NatWest, Lloyds and TSB.

Changes to the terms of the policy will have been discussed and negotiated between Nationwide and the underwriter as part of the overall deal and the price Nationwide pays them for the cover. I very much doubt that this exclusion would have reduced the price, because although a cycling accident has the potential to result in a large medical expenses and repatriation claim, such claims are so infrequent that the wearing or not wearing of a helmet would be unlikely to make it worth it to the underwriter to offer Nationwide any significant reduction in the price for this exclusion.

That makes me suspect that this decision has been driven by one or more individuals in Nationwide, or possibly the insurer, with a personal bee in their bonnet about cyclists not wearing helmets. If so, they should get their knuckles wrapped by their superiors for letting personal beliefs influence business decisions they are entrusted to take for the organisation.

https://cycleworx.co.uk/collections/yokozuna-cables

If you are still considering Jagwire, then as per the last post on this thread:

https://r2-bike.com/JAGWIRE-Brake-Cable-KEB-SL-Slick-Lube-10-meter

I can see it’s a big part of the MTB future. I love uplifted days and an ebike is like taking an uplift vehicle with you, without the environmental impact.

my lord what a lot of fun. Bring on the development and evolution

Be careful what you wish for.

The need to propel yourself back up the hill under your own steam in places like Surrey Hills probably dissuades some people who essentially are only interested in freewheeling down hills. If low cost e-bikes greatly increase the number of riders in places like that, then I suspect that will in turn increase the likelihood of landowners imposing restrictions or bans, and of local authorities responding to pressure from locals to introduce controls over cycling where previously there were none.

That is true, though the hub needs a reasonable amount of force to shift, you wouldn’t want to reduce it too much.

It did occur to me when I made my suggestion that such a shifter might only be usable by someone with thumbs like Popeye the Sailor. That said, I have read that some people have found that they can all too easily snap the side plate from a chain when using a bar end shifter with Paul’s Thumbie mounts, apparently because so much force can be applied by the thumb even with such a relatively short lever.

How about just a knob, though? Thumbshifters can only really be shifted by a thumb through about 1/4 turn, a simple knob would work quite nicely.

I think the issue with a knob, is the need to remove/lift the whole hand from the handlebar to reach it and operate it, which is the strength of the gripshifter. In that respect the gripshifter is arguably superior to thumbshifters and paddles, but more people are used to the latter. I suspect that for most of us it’s a case of adaptation, and it’s simply a matter of getting used to the gripshifter.

bencooper – Member

It’d have to be pretty big – 4″ across to get a half turn end-to-end?

Unless you are including the thumb shifter itself in that 4″ measurement, I make it less than that. As far as I can see the diameter of the semi-circle around which the cable moves inside the standard shifter is ~40mm. The standard shifter does not rotate through a whole 360 degrees, so a thumb shifter that moved through 180 degrees would ‘only’ need to move the cable through a semi-circle with a diameter a bit less than double that of the standard shifter, i.e. <2 x 40mm.

Moreover, the thumb shifter would not have to be in the same plane as the cable: positioning it above or below the plane of the cable would allow it to move through a much smaller circle. Changing the profile of the curve through which the cable moves, i.e. a cam, could also reduce the amount of movement of the thumbshifter.

With a twist shifter I have a clunky obstruction between my hand and the brake.

If you have standard short length brake levers designed for one or two finger braking, you could switch to the longer length trekking versions which would allow you to move your hand away from the shifter except when you need to change gear.

That said, I wonder if the answer to the objections of many about the Rohloff standard shifter is not the fancy complex expensive designs produced by Cinq5 and Gebla, but rather a grossly oversized thumb shifter.

Given that this has up till now been referred to as a ‘French Line’, should it not henceforth be called a ‘Scottish Line’?

(I would have suggested calling it a ‘British Line’, but I know how some Scots get annoyed about their sportsmen and women being described as British rather than Scottish.)