what jam bo said

Stainypants – I wouldn’t even respond to that, i’d be searching to cancel the order by any other means asap.

Bloodsexmagik – hopefully someone can shed some light for you (snigger), I’d have a stab at answering for you but im 18mths out of date myself.
For the record – Smudge knows his beans when it comes to batteries – avoid cheap chinese batteries where possible – when users claim ‘the batteries are genuine panasonics (etc), this is a good thing.

I’d say that the precautions in place have been perfectly adequate

So out of interest, what is the correct ratio for timescale per participant/member of public death?

prepare to be chastised for daring to have that unappologetic opinion.

Lazy bastard eagles.

I prefer Homme’s earlier work with Elven Queens of the Stone Age

Well here’s what his mate thinks, according to the BBC:

Neil McCarthy, a friend of pilot Andy Hill, told the BBC News Channel that the loop manoeuvre was regarded as “one of the most dangerous” to attempt.
He said: “If you don’t have the right entry speed, the right pull back on the stick, the G-force, the right gate height at the top of the loop manoeuvre, it can go wrong pretty quick”.

Totally wasted 2hrs watching Sinister the other night after seeing ads for Sinister 2.
Wondered how Pt 2 could ever be commissioned following such a shit film, checked reviews of Pt2 on Rotten Tomatos.. 6%..
Sounds about right

My Hope Hoops?…

Kudos to OP for posting

Words like “huge flying bomb” just reek of sensationalism! You car is also a “large high speed bomb packed full of highly explosive fuel just waiting to immolate innocent bystanders” but i bet you don’t think that when you get in it to ‘nip down the shops’………..

No offence was intended, I was highlighting the fact that a 15 ton jet engined vehicle filled will hundreds of litres of aviation fuel is potentially a very very dangerous object. And yes, I also consider cars as extremely dangerous objects, particularly when riding or walking in close proximity to them – and also whilst driving them, I consider the implications of my actions.

From memory I don’t think anyone on this thread called for a ban. In fact, quite the opposite – if you read my comments again you’ll realise that I was at said air show as a spectator. The aftermath of this tragedy has me questioning the safety of innocent bystanders (naturally). No one is trying to take away the adrenaline fuelled life experiences, but I think it was convert that made the point that those killed did not intend to join in with this partucular joie de vivre at that moment in time.
I merely commented that I’m keen to hope that any changes made to further mitigation at future shows drastically decrease the chances for similar tragedy’s.

Convert – your point about minutes per death in correlation to activity is also bang on point.

Slimjim, as a pacifist are you prepared to go another country and talk to those people directly who are stopping a village from building schools, re-opening a market so they can have a standard of living again or just so villagers can live in peace or do you just leave that to someone else.

As a pacifist I am against this notion of acting as world police, setting foot in other countries where we may be, but are also usually not welcome. More often than not we create further trouble for ourselves down the road by meddling in cultural and/or political affairs. Our motives are often veiled as humanitarian but as eluded to above, it usually deflects from a political and economic gain.

The links between munitions companies and many governments leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

For me it’s as simple as: armed forces = for defending home territory
Nothing more.

why do 7 people warrant such outrage when thousands are killed on the roads

Tomorrow, if it’s an average day, twice as many people will die of a heart attack than are killed when cycling in a whole year.
Should we stop worrying about cyclist deaths?

Id suggest that the difference is that we understand and account for the inherent risks involved in our daily commutes.
The jet that went down yesterday was effectively a huge flying bomb, pulling ‘safe mitigated’ manoueveres. Tell that to the occupants of the cars involved.
I expect your responses would be different had you lived in the nearby housing developments, or if your child was at the school located 50m from the crash point.

Mitigated risks or not, either a faulty jet or faulty pilot killed 7 people yesterday in the name of entertainment, people who were just going about their daily life.
I don’t call for knee jerk banning but having seen the fireball myself yesterday, I think the whole air show scene needs re evaluating at least.

Logging in, keep the links coming chaps

I turned up at the top end of Bostal Hill north of the air field just as the plume went up. Very eerie experience to even half witness. I cannot imagine the horror for those on the A27.
I’m aware that knee jerk reactions are inevitable, but the proximity of public routes and conurbation coupled with frequency of tragic events at shows like these does make me think that something isn’t quite right.

However, the Vulcan fly-by was still majestic, I’d hate to think that we are denied similar experiences in the future.

So forgive me if I’m reading this wrong, but ‘protecting the British freedom’ came further down the list than – not many opportunities round this way – will get free training/paid for privilege – play with some really cool toys – will get to see some cool places – my mates were doing it ?

Like I said earlier, I can see those attractions. It seems a lifestyle choice. But as I eluded to earlier, it’s not in my name that our boys get sent abroad to do the dirty work. It’s the propaganda effect of H4H that bothers me.

Best wishes go to anyone injured in their line of duty. I wouldn’t even wish that on my enemies..

I admit, the sainsburys Xmas ad got to me. I love the idea of humanity looking past the insanity of war and enemy, even just temporarily.

lets not get started on the heroism of suicide bombers then

Timeframe? Nobody knows what’s coming. I’m sure those who signed up in 1936 didn’t know they’d be legitimate heroes due to the nature of the task given to them, just as those who signed up in 1999 didn’t know they’d be cast as illegitimate heroes due to the task given to them.

Wrecker – forgive me, I do respect your work and can imagine the pressure and danger was massive. I just don’t agree with the principle of blindly going in under the charge of a governing body that I may or may not agree with.
In 1936 I think objectors would’ve been hanged or shot for treason if they chose not to fight, times have changed.

The individuals can be heroes even if the cause itself is unjust.

Does that extend to acts of terrorism? Or the freedom fighter saving his tribal leader from an incoming Allied grenade?

Anybody wiling to put their life on the line to protect my freedoms may not be a “hero” but they are definitely worth my support when they return.

I think I’m willing to put my life on the line to protect your freedom, im fairly convinced your freedom would be perfectly safe without having sent a single troop outside of our borders in the last 25-70 years.

I’m genuinely interested to hear squaddies/ex squaddies reasons for signing up, and whether they think Britain would not be free without military intervention within above timeframe.

Jp – good point. Should a nurse/doctor/plasterer receive dibilitating injuries in or outside the line of duty, they would most likely not recieve the same level of care or compensation (or would they?)
So for signing up to do the governments dirty work, you do seemingly become a hero.

Heck, I may be a hero in disguise, but I won’t choose to go to the Middle East to prove it.

For the record, I have a mild fascination with WWII and am fascinated by the machinery and its advancement during this period (literally just got home from witnessing unfortunate crash at Shoreham air show). I also have full admiration for the home guard and the soldiers of this era on the battlefield, fighting against forces literally looking to take over the world by any means.

That was a different era, different circumstances, with national service applying too.

Should it ever come to ground invasion of Britain by a genuinely oppressive force id imagine my instinct may be to sign up and defend… In fact, the army life style even appeals to me on some levels – I can see why wielding such machinery and the camaraderie would be an exciting prospect. Does testosterone play a part? Possibly.

My main point regarding modern day service is that I then take a step back and ask what are my motives? Why/who am I going to do this for? I don’t think the right answer is to commit. I don’t think soldiers should be in that place, jumping on hand grenades. I wish them no harm and it’s shameful how on many levels the govermnent ends up deserting them. Is that alone not enough reason for them not to sign up?

I do vote, I don’t sign up for war or invasions.
Oh, my rugby mate was 5 weeks into his first tour, literally weeks after completing his training. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the debate guys, I appreciate the different views. No offence intended, I realise it’s a sensitive subject with many invested interests.

Thank you Robd.

And rusty, I agree. However, I can’t imagine a reason that an ex soldier wouldn’t support a soldier cause.

Maybe I should chill – but like when I see motorists laying into cyclists in the press, it gets my goat and I feel the need to comment.
Just like with being constantly reminded that I should help the heroes, it gets my goat as I don’t like the way society is validating its actions

I agree that people who need help, are being helped as a result of this charity.
I also understand that it’s a very controversial subject as millions of Britons know someone or are related to someone in the forces – we have a patriotic population, I just feel that there is an element of propaganda about how this charity is pitched.

A good friend from my previous rugby team had his leg blown off on his first tour of Basra, 5 weeks into joining the army. I’ve seen the effects, I still am completely against his reasoning for choosing to join the forces.

Love this

Clipped in = energy saving + marginal increase in power transfer = ultimately more speed.

Your analogy to pro cyclists wearing them was really the debate ended.

Clips are for kooks!
It’s just riding bikes. The more we try and complicate it, the more likely joy is to disappear, and the further we get from the original, primal freedom bikes gave us as kids.

Except it’s not primal. It’s a largely Victorian era invention that has been refined over the last few decades in the name of super efficiency.

It’s a simple answer, if your commute is short(ish), and you don’t want the bother of carrying spare shoes etc, flats are just fine.
If you are taking longer rides and are partial to occasional/frequent faster rides then you’ll appreciate the added energy saving ergo extra speed benefits of being clipped in.

I’d suggest that if you’re already clad in Lycra and riding a lightweight road bike that you’re on the path to being clipped in.
Remember to ‘ride circularly’. It’s been mentioned a few times here already but is the key to a positive outcome.

I’d also love a super shallow drop road bar, with less flare than the midge. Not as much drop as bar above /\

On my iPhone screen the first picture honestly looked like someone has laid a giant turd on your roof.

Anyway, those vids are kinda fascinating and super creepy! What a cool creature. Poo like or not.

I prefer Harlequins

Thoroughly enjoyed spectating, some great performances. Stand out bits (asides the sunshine) , the whole crowd cheering one rider down the hill with 1min to go on clock, and making it in the nick of time.. And the poor fella crossing the line 8secs after closing time.

Spoke to him after and he said he gave it all he had on last lap to try and squeeze it in.

Jolly good event with some serious bike porn on show too. I’ll be entering next year

Wonder if it washed it down with some mushy bees?

Gazc, could you let me know how you get on with your XL once you’ve set it up?

coming from someone considering a Mega TR, i’ll take ‘Industrial chic’ as a description 🙂

Looking forward to manufacturers ditching front mech tabs altogether. Makes even more sense to me on trail/full suss frames. Either way, it could easily be executed much more smartly – look at the new Mega frames for example.

You see, I think the big simple tubes add a refreshing smoothness to the whole look.
Three uniform isosceles triangles coming together nicely.

Had actually considered that. Be a shame to bother the fresh paintwork mind.

It is mental to be hung up over such a thing isn’t it. ? .

I must overcome.

I am daft, and a bit OCD. Plus trained in 3D design so my eye is instantly drawn to such mitherings.

I may come around and attempt to overlook it.

I wouldn’t worry about the flex, even if you found it wasn’t to your taste – people will queue up to take the frame off your hands.

Is it wrong that despite looking the perfect frame for my needs, I won’t commit to one purely based on the gash looking front mech hanger sticking out of the seat tube?.. (conveniently obscured in most press photo’s)

I know, i’m a complete tart.

Not exactly vintage, but took my 98 Kapu up to SRAM Red 11sp a while back. Took a bit of chasing to get the King baseplate to fit the old school 1″ fork, other than that, absolutely love how it goes.

I’ve got one. Sounds great to me, can be had for around £120 mark on ePay or forums.

I’ve gotten through 2 matching KI 66 Amps too, as it comes with a great Phono stage built in. First amp starting buzzing on RH channel, 2nd recently blew completely so back to my old Cambridge Audio amp.

Being a lazy fecker I much prefer using the CA remote to switch sources, but I do miss the warmth of the Marrantz amp.

Pretty sure the 63 KI CDP also uses Philips mechanisms, regularly available on ePay.