I like the idea of an Alfine support thread…

Im holding on to the thin vein of hope that this hub fires in to life and gives me miles & miles of trouble free service (as i built a bike around it)..if not, im peeved.

i like that

im riddled with gay

last week I had a poo. Wait, I had a poo at lunch time today too.

I think racism should be renamed anticulturalism.

I have no problem with decent people of any background, I have a problem with negative cultures that clash with mine.

Skin colour has nothing to do with it as far as im concerned.

I am racist.

All races are.

be keen to hear how you get on, I have an 11sp recently purchased 2nd hand which has a similar residue.
I presumed enthusiastic chain oiling, but maybe I have a leak too.

Didnt realise there was a specific shimano oil to top with either, let me know if you find a good alternative as id like to flush mine out (if I ever stop it skipping gears)..

sorry AndyHilton, but you did come across as an arse in your first post, so dont get arsey that it has been mentioned.

I dont see any issue with asking about tyre choice, I feel a big difference between hard pack tyres and mud tyres, and a bit of advice on the terrain to make an informed decision beforehand seems sensible to me.

how the **** that is incredibly anal and pointless is beyond me?… making the negative comment is more anal.

why would they say children are visiting your house if they arent?

it doesnt add up

Oh dear..
I imagine someone higher up the pecking order got work of the documentary and made them pull the plug.
I would bet my mortgage on them not hiding anything that isnt already available elsewhere.
Yes – I imagine a lot of the bravado is a power trip – silly old buggers.
Not too dissimilar to most policemen I meet…

ha! OK, I get it now, all is forgiven.
Can we go for a ride now please…I dont wanna do this anymore…

You haven’t really told us anything. Other than that you refer to a chap in your lodge by his skin colour.

I was thinking about this again, beacuse in fact, ive pretty much told you everything regarding the society.
There really is not much more I can tell you (not even secrets). I could mention King Solomans temple and its pillars.
There, better?

you owe me a million dollars

Actually Slimjim, given that you are regular forum user seller, I’ll let you off.

whats your point? that im new to this forum? Do you usually treat new members with such contempt?
How should I become initiated into this club? I wish to be just like you brethren.

You haven’t really told us anything. Other than that you refer to a chap in your lodge by his skin colour

Oh boy, you really missed my sarcasm on that one then.
Trust me, I wouldnt give you any names, for fear of having my throat cut and tongue cast into the sea.

Another point which interests me is how many Masons assume that any scepticism or contempt one has for their beliefs (and a willingness to accept a deity of some sort is a core belief) must be based on jealousy and disinformation…

a) I dont have ‘beliefs’ other than honouring what was asked of me during iniation. What beliefs are you refering to? I never actually admitted to a belief in a deity either..
b) I never mentioned jealousy once, are you jealous? but there is a vast amount of disinformation being thrown around

Simonralli2 – I think you hit a really good point, the feeling of belonging to a brotherhood is what drives most members onwards and upwards within thier lodge.
The secrecy thing is like a badge of honour I guess (althogh most members I know treat the secrecy with a bit of tongue and cheek).

I tell you something for nothing though, ive not struggled to find a plumber/electrician/chippy/architect/builder in the last few years.
Job’s a goodun.

I’d say if you embrace that kind of ritual for whatever reason you’re a bit of a sadsack in good need of a leg up the ladder of life.

Thanks iDave.
But you know next to nothing really. If you have an interest in history, in pomp and ceremony, amongst many other things, then youd find masonry remotely interesting. Without the ceremony there would be very little to distinguish it from a social club. Its great for improving your memory skills too.
But what do I know, im just a sad sack who sits on a biking forum all day slating other people.

So you’d like me to prove a negative? Good one.

Not really Ransos, id rather you jogged on.

So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a foolethical and honourable not too. Even if what you say is true.

I agree CharlieMungus, I cringed whilst writing it originally – but none of us are whiter than white. I would bet a million dollars youve used/would use a similar situation to your advantage.

I can see why its frowned upon as a society(honestly), but IMHO theree is nothing sinister or nothing wierder than a men’s club that gives folks something to do, and has a positive outcome.
In all honesty I stopped actively taking part about 3 years ago as I felt id gone as far as I was interested in. Im still a country member and could enter again if I ever wanted to but I dont really think its for me in the long run. Why? Apart from feelign a teeny tiny bit daft, I just dont like the general public enough. Some of you are helping afirm this.

I just thought some of you may be keen on an insiders point of view. Nay, you just prefer to critcise. Human nature in action (or just Britishness?).

Supertramp – which province was that per chance?

Ive seen all kinds of ‘classes’ in my lodge and others ive visited, shame yours was sullied.
Ive heard tongue in cheek jokes, and ive never witnessed racism.

Have heard plenty of wife whingingness though.

you cannot be a secret organisation then complain that we dont understand you … her ei know open up like actually tell me what the rituals are or the handshake rather than say Googlle it. Even on here, when defending it behind a nom de plume, you cannot actually tell us can you.

As I already mentioned (do people actually read what is written?) Any ‘secrecy’ stems from people remaining true to their values and commitments. We have sworn a cremonial oath not to divulge, its purely ceremonial but would feel wrong to break.
Do you see masons going crazy over the secrets being splashed all over the internet and in books? no. it doesnt really matter.

Pretty much like any other Christian group aren’t they?

Not really, being christian isnt a pre-requisite, just belief in a supreme being. Christianity is never mentioned, hence Asian (hindu/sikh) members from and members of other faiths.

1) No women (outside their own little enclave)
2) Lots and Lots of problems in the past
3) P2 in Italy. Google it.
4) In my area (medicine) there was a masonic definite power base and circle of influence in a hospital where I trained.
5) The defensive tone of some of the members of the craft who have crawled out on this thread has to be seen to be believed.
6) And the people who are members might be just as generous to charity if they were members of another organisation. The Masons don’t get to claim all the credit for that.

1)Ever been to a pub with a men only room? Its old fashioned and its a bit wrong, but somehow it feels good. Masonry certainly cant be considered ‘modern’, I agree. They are making steps though.
2) lot & lots of problems? cant be bothered to ask for specifics to this vague point, but every orgnanisation has its dark problems – as does every race/government etc.
3) Italy? totally different organisation. Freemasonry is world wide but only connected by name in most cases. What is practiced/governed in one country is totally & utterly different in another. Its like saying a naughty italian school boy must be involved in the mafia.
4) So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a fool not too. Even if what you say is true.
5)again – tarring with the same brush. There are knob ‘eds in every organisation, you must have encountered some ‘ethusiastic’ members.
6) they would be just as generous, or at least inclined to be. But masonry binds them, gives them a common interest and probably raises the prospective outcome.

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

And I didnt use it as proof as there being no rascists in freemasonry, on the contrary, I made the poitn that there are quite a few old schoolers with Alf Garnet beliefs – there are a lot of old people after all!. My point was that these people exist in all walks of life and Masonry isnt exclusive to them. Any pub on a friday night is usually as bad.
My other point was that there any many non-rascists in masonry, as in ALL OTHER walks of life.
Read what you want to read though.

BTW – The negativity on here smacks of ”I dont understand it so I dont like it”

OK then, tell us what you do and say at your scouts for grown ups?

Why? Is just old fashioned syle rhetoric, look it up. Every word is online.

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

Can you prove otherwise?
So on that token, you are accusing Freemasonry of taking an ”im not rascist but..” stance? Feel free to jump to whatever conclusions you wish, its a free world. I happen to really like black Bob in my lodge.

LOL!

@ Edukator (ironic name) Birmingham 6? Yes, a total masonic cover up, the grand master told me so.
Fact is, our own government is involved in more cover ups every day than any masonic conspiracy you can spout.

@GaryGlitter – I tend to agree, mainly mentalists.

@ iDave – Did I not say that freemasonry was like Scouts for grown ups? Im happy to admit to scouts being a midly emabarassing past time – woggles and all that jazz. so willing to accept masonry in the same vein. Im sure you dont have any secrets though – best not go routing through your drawers eh
TBH, the secrecy thing is just part of the ritual stemming back from hundreds of years of tradition. Its just members being true to their values/traditions. The origins of masonry supposedly stem from a founding member giving his life rather than divulging passwords to villains whom had struck a mortal blow. Its about being true to the value of remaining true! As explained MANY time above, there are actually NO SECRETS, its all available on tinterweb and in various books.

@ ransos – Que? I was merely confirming freemasonry to not be a rascist organisation, your slant on the comment is cunning, but we all know what the original poster was refering too, do we really need to go down that path?

Having been a (young!) mason for best part of 8 years now im probably in a fairly good position to comment.
Firstly, the negativity on here is laughable. I heard the same theories before I joined and was intreagued to find out the truth, which is a lot less exciting than you may be lead to believe.

As already mentioned above (by perhaps one of our more open minded members) there are dodgy characters in all walks of life – members on here included im sure. Masonry is not exempt of dodgy blokes but it does do its best to exempt them, and if any member does cross the line morally or legally they are barred. I have witnessed this happen.

In a nutshell masonry does a lot more good than any perceived harm. Its hundreds of thousands of members (UK) all contribute to chrarity at every meeting. Local and national charities all benefit. Charity fund raising events are organised, and during a meeting a large proportion of time is spent discussing how much money has been raised and how much more could be raised with a little more effort.
It also does indeed serve as a gathering/social place for our OAP’s – keeping them in conversation and giving them something to do – hardly anything wrong with that?
Younger members also arrange other social events – BBQ’s – golf days – go-karting, you name it – all of these events raise money for charity.

Yes – freemasonry is the second largest contributor to charities in the UK.

During most meetings, ritual practice is carried out (the secretive bit), which is where the grown up Scouts/Cubs bit comes in to play. I agree, it is like scouts for men. Anything wrong with that? Men bonding? People striving to acheive a goal and earn a modicum of respect from fellow members as a result? Hardly worth lambasting.
ALL of this practice is readily available on the internet as are ALL of the passwords and handshakes. Most of the negative folk cant be bothered to find out for themselves.

Essentially, its a club for (mainly decent) men to gather, drink beer, have food cooked for them, dress smartly, make contacts within trade/business, socialise, carry out some pomp & ceremony (which the British are best at), and raise a SH!T LOAD of money for charity.
Hardly cloak & dagger.

Of course someones uncle’s neighbours mate’s butcher from the pub was a dodgy geezer whom apparently got away with something that couldnt be explained – that only happens to Mason’s, right?
Jeesh.

And to the fella who found it sexist & racist – My lodge has asian and black members whom would disagree – as would the women in women’s freemasonry.
Perhaps you happened to be invited to a lodge where (shock/horror) some members were a bit old school.
Perhaps try another lodge where the members would be different. As in most clubs/societies, the members all have different personalities, and masonic lodges are all individual.
Or you could just man up.

Why the secrecy? Why not?! It’s cool to hear the tongues wagging.. (despite nothing really being secret).

everyone is at least 10% gay. I find that funny.

all those who deny Alan Carr as being funny are just in denial.

Im off to bake a quiche.

I just got back from the sunday night show.
Was hoping to be wowed by the Foo’s but went more for my sister who’s a big fan and to make up for not paying enough attention to them at the IOW festival.

TBH, I was a bit bored too..

I like a few of their hits but have always felt like I want a bit more from them. When they released all my life I thought ‘cool – theyve grown some nuts’ but they havent really topped that, and that was 9 years ago now (!).
Fair play to anyone who loves them, I can kinda see why, but just cant quite buy in to them whole heartedly.
Also agree that the crowd was full of chavvy nob chops.

Loads of fit girls there though! and sadly even more fat ones.

For what its worth Im 6’1″ with 31″ inside leg, long torso short legs and ride the large version with 110mm stem.

I find it very comfy but they sure do ‘look’ compact. I would look rediculous on the medium size, not sure I look any good on the large!.

Primal Scream!

theres plenty of depravity in the red light district especially by night.

I would heartily recommend The Rokery, there are a couple in the city but my fave is in the south/central disctrict of Leidseplein.Its the most chilled out coffee shop…so if you like that sort of thing you can shmoka da pancake to your hearts content. Go for a hot chocolate too after one of thier finest northern lights..

And try the bar in The American Hotel, also in Leidseplein. I met Ronnie Wood last time I had a drink there.

Rembrandtplein is a great area to bar hop and people watch too.

The best thing about central Dam, is you can walk to pretty much any part of it in 30 mins if you feel like it. Other wise just hop on a tram.

ORDER ONLINE!!!!!

I literally spent years thinking that road bikes probably werent for me, but after realising that I was likely to get more milage in I took the plunge last year.
3 road bikes later im hooked, and wish id done it years ago. I feel the fitness advantage (cross training with MTB and running) and massively enjoy long ride outs now. Rode home 80 miles from Isle of Wight last week and was best ride of the year so far.

Do it, make sure it fits well, and enjoy.

dont throw your MTB!

I picked up a mint Cannondale road bike with full mint Shimano 105 for £300 on here just a few weeks ago. Its amazing what you can pick up for the money if you are willing to look at 10yo bikes and up your budget a tad.

So, historically, who has dealt out more shite to other races than white people (by which I mean “white Europeans, including Americans…”?

It’s more complicated than that. Lots of slave trading, for sure, but that was a very long time ago, and we definitely weren’t the only ones. It’s just that mostly we were the only ones taking people of a visibly different race and shipping them half away around the world. So many terrible stories from ALL OVER the world, that we don’t know about. Perhaps they happened outside of recorded history, perhaps we just don’t know the history. Did you know for example that the Japanese people (as a race) displaced the original inhabitants, the Ainu, who are now treated like dirt apparently – pretty similar story to the USA, Australia etc etc etc etc. It happened all over the world and is still happening.[/quote]

Amen.

It’s foolish to jump on the ”white man = racist” band wagon.
Throughout history there have been countless racist atrocities inflicted by all colours and creeds. By spouting ‘USA+Britain did all the slavery init’ you are doing nothing other than proving your own ignorance/brain washed blinkery.
Religion probably has just as much to answer for, but thats for another day.

”No racism isn’t truly a white man thing, but no race has dealt it out more severely with terrible consequences than the white man”

Says who? Thats a sweeping generalisation at best.
Are you speaking on behalf of international rascists throughout history?
Or the fact that most of the history you are aware of is based on white man? (as you are presumably white, and educated as such).
Many other countries have far far worse racsism problems (& history) than the UK – and many of those countries are not ‘white’.

As a white englishman living in/around very culturally diverse areas, I have been on the receiving end of more racist abuse than most have given out.
Ive noticed that in areas where I personally become a minority I tend to witness a more confident ‘mob rule’ attitude from other races (obviously).
I also have had discussions with asian friends/collegues on this and similar topics and this has been affirmed.

It is my belief that any & every culture has the tendancy to be racist/oppresive toward the minority in its immediate surroundings.
Racism truly isnt a ‘white man’ thing, and it will never be eradicated as culturally we are too diverse.
However, overtly liberal attitudes (which I find terribly lame) will only end up creating bigger problems in the long run as we shift the balance far too much.
We have to stop apologising, accept our differences and the very fact that we are different before we can move on.

There’s pikeys everywhere.

Windsors was better when Tim was running it!

En route from chertsey you can head to horsell common which is good for an hours quick singletrack, then via chobham common and on to swinley which has some great trails if you venture deep enough.
Have fun!

for going uphill and along road faster?