Back on topic, I really don’t think there’s ever been a better time to buy a top end carbon frame. My R5 was discounted by 50% and the Scott was less that 25% of its original list price!
And these aren’t simply ageing frames that were top of the pile 5 or 6 years ago, they’re frames that are currently being used by Garmin and Orica.
One reason is that manufacturers are selling off “mechanical only” framesets in order to stock a common product line that can be used for mechanical or electronic group sets.
So a rider like me, that has no intention of going Di2 for the foreseeable future, there are some serious bargains to be had.
In fact, in the case of the CR1, I’ve got a pro-tour level bike – and the warranty/customer support of Scott – for little more than Ribble/Planet X money.

So you’re saying the 10 or so people discussing the merits of top end frames in this thread outweigh the thousands of keen cyclists who just get ion with it oblivious to fhe musings of active forum members?

Well, I’d surmise that the vast majority of cyclists have an interest in good kit and lust after the bikes the pros ride. Whether or not the choose, or indeed have the means to afford such bikes is largely irrelevant. The whole point of this thread is to discuss the merits of those frames, so it strikes me as a little bit odd for someone that has no experience of carbon roadbikes would dismiss the opinions of someone that owns and has ridden enough to be able to discuss their relative benefits or shortcomings with some authority.
But you take 6hrs to ride a century, so you’re clearly a novice. 😉

They’re clearly not. Ask anyone who rides a “cheap, old road frame” if they’d prefer a modern, pro-level frameset, and I would place money on the overwhelming majority saying yes they would!

And do you describe a 100 mile ride as “paltry” in a bid to suggest that it’s an insignificant distance? How strange…

Thank god the “third camp” aren’t in the majority then, or internet forums – indeed, conversation in general – would die a death. 🙄

Apparently Cervelo spent a lot of time making a lighter version of one of their frames (R5 IIRC?), the difference was so minimal they ended up adding thicker paint to the original to increase its weight and therefore enhance the weight difference.

Nonsense. The standard R5 (which I ride) is one of the lightest framesets in the world (depending how you weigh it). The R5CA, or project California is what I imagine you’re talking about, and it was built to develop even better technology, regardless of cost. That technology has trickled down to the 2014 R5, but there’s no way Cervelo would pointlessly add weight to a frame they sell 10s of thousands of in order to bolster the reputation of a bike they sell a few hundred of!

As has been said, you do get what you pay for with carbon frames, having ridden and owned quite a lot, I’m happy in the knowledge that my R5 is superior enough to a Ribble or Planet X to justify the additional expense.

If you’re an occasional rider, you might not notice the differences as much, but if you race, you’ll know which frames are better suited to different disciplines.

I also have a Scott CR1 which is a great bike for circuit racing, but if I was doing a century ride, I’d choose the Cervelo every time – the increase in comfort is incredible.

I had a Giant TCR for a couple of years and whilst it was a solid, comfortable frame, it lacked the stiffness of the Cervelo and the Scott.

The comment above about a really sorted frame making it feel like you’re cheating rings very true!

…And start with clean water in a big clean bucket, add a bit of plaster, mix it up, add a bit more, mix it up, add a bit more, mix it up… Continue until it’s the right consistency. No lumps.

And yes, buy multi-finish!

In fairness, the GP4000s I had were blue – the compound was hideous, rock hard and shiny… It was like descending on roller skate wheels in the wet!

I have a pair of old Conti Gatorskins which were much better but the Lithions have a herringbone tread on the shoulders which seems to hang on a bit better when it’s greasy.

Wheelie, did you get the freebies from Michelin too? I got the Pro4s too – tyres coming out of my ears at the moment… 😀

gp4000s

I found these to be lethal in the wet… I’ve got some Michelin Lithions on at the moment and I’ve not noticed any bum-twitching moments, so they must be OK… Cheap as chips too.

Can’t comment on puncture resistance yet, but managed to get through the traditional hedge-cutting season with no fizzers!

Dolan Prefissio here, absolutely love riding it. Very comfy, stable, handles well… I actually look forward to getting it out for winter.

Husqvarna here, about 20 quid from here.[/url]

I believe Canyon have something that fits the bill… It was reviewed very highly in Cycling Weekly this week…

likes cold shoulders, single word responses & snubbing

Then dating isn’t for you… You should try marriage instead 😉

“So, Junky… Are you the kinda gal that meets for a drink? Or are you one of those that just likes picking arguments on the internet?”

Likes making grown men squirm, Vaseline and zip ties…

this was an amusing thread dont spoil it

Apologies, just my attempt to diffuse Junky’s nitpicking in an amusing way… 😉

you seem to want to get into a pointless, pedantic argument for some reason.

You’ll get used to him.

Does that warrant editing? All I was doing was suggesting what women might think of him if he was foolish enough to be himself… All in good humour, just like his posts… 😉

Oops, soz Junk, I forgot the winky smiley… 😉

Junkyard, my advice to you would be to NEVER, under ANY circumstances, try to be yourself…

They’ll just think you’re an irritating, argumentative, obtuse prick and that they’d rather become a lonely old cat lady than date you.

What happens when you meet for the first time and tnink they are nice but I dont fancy them at all.

You have the best time you possibly can, and with a bit of luck, you might make a friend out of it. I have to say, the worst thing about the process is having to let people down, but as long as you’re not unkind, it shouldn’t be a problem.

There have only been a few dates where it’s been so clear that we don’t get on, and in those instances, it’s come as no surprise to either of us that the other one didn’t text back!

But if she’s keen and you’re not, you’ve just got to be decisive and fair. Obviously, once you’ve met, it’s real life, so real life rules apply – be a gentleman and consider her feelings.

Generally, I would stress what a good time you had, what a lovely person she is (they usually are if you’ve got to the date stage) but that you’re disappointed that there wasn’t that spark… Maybe you’re just a fussy bugger, etc, etc, etc. It gets harder after a few dates…

people comfortable enough to be themselves

This is me being myself… 😉

You might have the rest of your life to “be yourself”, but you’ll never know unless you win the dating game.

Then on the third message I asked her out for a drink as per Shib’s advice. So far no response but it was later on last night. Fingers crossed.

Good luck Mister P! Fortune favours the brave… If she doesn’t reply, you can always fall back on the “Sorry, was I rushing things? I just thought we had a lot in common so it would be good to meet, see if we click…” sort of thing.

I tended to include a bit of NLP when asking… On the second or so message (right after she’s asked how you’re finding the website – they always do) I’d throw in something like “Yeah, there seem to be lots of nice people… A lot of people just seem to be looking for pen pals and never actually go on dates!!”

That way, she’ll be keen to prove to you that she’s not one of those people that frustrate you so much… (for all the doubters, shoot me down, but 90% of the time, this works ALL of the time ;))

Then, when you come to ask, you say something like “so, are we going to meet for drink? Or are you one of those girls that just likes emailing…”

It’s just sales… Attract, convert, close. Then seal the deal 😉

Yup, even the ugly ones… 😉

So you took your pic off just to reduce the amount of messages you get?? Yeah right. 🙄

There is a feedback facility on POF but it’s really not used very much… If you think about it, why would it? If the date went well, you wouldn’t want to big that girl up to other blokes, and it would be rather ungentlemanly to give an honest rating of a disastrous date!

Why would you do that Dez?? If a man doesn’t have a profile pic, it’s because he’s married. If a woman doesn’t have one, it’s because she’s butt ugly!

Schoolboy error..

I was trying to be genuine as that what every girl seems to want but i might just lie and unleash my true personality on the second date.

You have to bear in mind that an “average” looking woman will get several emails a day, so you’re going to have to find some way of standing out if you’re going to get noticed. Also, from what I’ve been told, women get so many emails that they don’t even bother opening half of them. I tended to restrict my emails to women who’d viewed my profile winked/expressed-an-interest. Made it easier to use a genuine-sounding, disarming opening gambit, even if it was largely copied-and-pasted, something along the lines of:
“Hey, I noticed you’d looked at my profile but didn’t send a message… So you’re either the type of person that’s not comfortable sending messages to strange men on the internet, or, you found my pics totally repulsive… etc, etc.”

My profile was a very sarcastic dissection of the weird and wonderful world of dating that hinted at a few disastrous dates and contained plenty of observations of the process that gave women plenty of scope to send a message without having to struggle for something to say. It’s a tricky tactic – you know that you’re going to alienate a large proportion of the women who don’t “get” the humour, but I figured that I’d not want to date someone who didn’t have a sarcastic streak!

You bought a mirror

No, I found a perfect 10 a few months ago… I’m still waiting for someone to tell me it’s some sort of wind-up! (Match Dot Com if you’re wondering…)

Likes fat-bottomed girls, comfy saddles and wet-wipes.

Really? I know you can scroll through clicking yes/no/maybe, but what’s the thing that’s only available to women? It actually says “this is only available to women” when you get the message… Is it “express an interest” or something like that?

I’m afraid I’ve not been on for a few months… Otherwise occupied you see 😉

Maybe I am old fashioned but I’d like a hello at least!

The “Would like to meet” feature is only available to women – I think it’s a good thing… The online equivalent of a smile across a crowded room.

It might seem old-fashioned, but the majority of women on there expect the man to take the initiative and send the first message. The “Would Like To Meet” is their way of undoing another button on their blouse, twiddling with their hair and seductively felating an olive on a cocktail stick at the bar… Trust me, I know women… 😉

I love it when I’m right… 😉

If you think about it, how on earth could one factory make all the Goretex jackets in the world?? I have 2 or 3 different makes and I’m sure at least one of those is made in China whilst another is made in the UK…

Isn’t it just the fabric that’s made in the same factory?

That’s like saying an Apollo is the same as a Colnago because they’re both made out of steel…

loddrik – Member

I also don’t subscribe to the ‘winter’ bike nonsense.

You clearly ride alone. If you ride with a group on the road you’ll be told to sit on the back if you’ve not got guards, and told in no uncertain terms not to come out again without full mudguards and a rear mudflap!

I’ve got the K-Edge one on my posh road bike, that’s what these are copying. The K-Edge one is just 2-pieces of beautifully machined aluminium – even the mount are is just machined to the perfect thickness to make it springy enough to hold the Garmin securely.

OK, so it’s 4 times the price, but I like nice things. Might get one of these for the race bike – it’s a bit more of a work horse.

Brand wasn’t great in the interview, BUT, it’s gone viral and people are listening to him. The message behind his arguments still came through, even though the substance was a bit naff. So this is a good thing, he’s potentially hitting a demographic who would normally let this sort of thing pass them by.

That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics. Che Guevara he ain’t.

Brand wasn’t great in the interview, BUT, it’s gone viral and people are listening to him. The message behind his arguments still came through, even though the substance was a bit naff. So this is a good thing, he’s potentially hitting a demographic who would normally let this sort of thing pass them by.

That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics. Che Guevara he ain’t.

Firstly I assume you have been asleep for the last 4 years then if you have failed to notice how much wealth these ignoble institutes have delivered upon us
Even when we owned them and we gave them the **** money they still did not loan it out did they.
Secondly the wealth comes from hoarding capital – gained by theft essentially as it was all unowned one day – and from the exploitation of the workers who get paid less than they earn so that the morally vacuous greedy hoarders of excess wealth can sneer at them as

Junky clearly understands even less about economics than the… Erm… Junky!

Are you suggesting that previous drug use devalues his opinion?

Can this be copied/pasted into the thread about how to be insufferable on this forum? 🙄

Absolutely nothing he said stands up to any form of scrutiny. That interview does nothing apart from fuel “disenfranchisement” (Christ I hate that word!!) and rally the masses that know nothing about politics and understand even less about global economics.

It panders to the lazy, envious underachievers that think the woes of the world are caused by a miniscule percentage of the financial services workforce getting bonuses, and whose ears prick up at sound of the words “redistribution of wealth”!

Where on earth would this wealth come from if it wasn’t for financial institutions and global corporations??

He’s very good at making himself sound clever. Look at how often he repeats the same words – his vocabulary isn’t half as varied as he’d like us to think and whilst he’s a fast talker and quick thinker, he’s not as eloquent as he’d like to be.

The problem is that the hoi polloi that are blinded by his flowery language are also the sort of people that would follow Hitler if they heard him utter the words “Bankers’ Bonuses”.

Naive, populist drivel from a good comedian and a master of delivery and cadence.

This clip did the rounds on Facebook and I was amazed by how many people thought Paxman was lost for words.

Bemused, amused and unable to get a word in edgeways would be a better summary.

The Cervélo wishbone is there to hold the brake caliper and comply with UCI regs. The strength is in the chainstays. 😉

Grum, the only part that’s remotely similar is the fork!

It doesn’t have the squoval tube profiles on head/down tubes, or the simple, straight-edged tapered head tube.

The seat tube is “similar” but has a cutaway for the front mech, so I suspect it’s symmetrical. The rear stays aren’t as thin and the bridge looks big and chunky. The dropouts are completely different and the chain stays don’t look as boxy, or asymmetric like on a R5.

Quite alot of gold standard sportive riders claim they’re just as good as a Cervelo/De Rosa/Madone etc.

All I can say is not many of those “gold standard” riders have ever ridden a Cervélo!

The Ribble R872 is identical to the De Rosa 838, but that is De Rosa’s bottom of the range carbon frameset and Ribble’s top of the range.

A real Cervélo is a completely different animal.

I wouldn’t buy into the idea that any of them are actually the same as any of the big brands.

This. The amount of people I hear bragging about their unbranded Specialized Venge/Pinarello Dogma/Cervelo R5 that snook out of the same factory just before the paint shop and cost a 10th of the price amazes me.

They’re perfectly alright frames, you can probably buy that one branded as a Planet X/Beacon/Ribble or some other UK company that import painted versions and sell them as their own.