oh, the OP – don’t shoot the cats, it’s a bit unsporting, it’s a touch hypocritical if you analyse it.

Fair enough, I wouldn’t want to be considered unsporting… After all, I’m the type of man that only uses dry fly for trout.

So, I’ll catch the little f****rs on my fly rod.

Anyone know how to tie an imitation gold crest on a size 2 treble hook?

Just rather a poor choice of word. It’s hardly an audacious act!

I suspect he’s heard the word “audacious”, like the way it sounds, and has been waiting for an opportunity to use it.

He should have looked it up first. 🙄

As real as someone wanting to kill animals for having the audacity to behave like one.

Audacity? Really??? 🙄

Also presumably the rabbits that were introduced by the Romans, and the grey squirrels introduced much more recently. Also, you’ll want to be careful with your deer habitat since Muntjak, Fallow, Sika, and (obviously) Chinese Water deer are all only here because of humans. As are pheasant and several species of partridge. Also most types of mouse and rat. As for plants and insects…

I’ve shot half a dozen grey squirrels in the last fortnight. The only deer in my wood are native Roe. The only invasive plant species that causes any problem is Himalayan Water Balsam which I systematically cut back several times a year.

Introduced species are only a problem when they cause a detrimental impact on the eco-system. The effect of things like pheasants is minimal, I’m not concerned about them at all.

No I haven’t, it’s a section of ancient woodland that was recorded in the Doomsday book. It’s a site of special scientific interest.

All I’ve done is to restore the part that I’m lucky enough to own and reinstate some of the habitat that had been lost to development.

Mother nature takes care of the rest, and she’s done a good job of refining this over the millennia. For some pillock to let an apex predator roam free is utterly stupid and irresponsible.

You attitude I do not understand – you love wildlife, you encourage it to come but you hate cats.

What happens when the birds you encourage start eating worms and bugs and cats?

I don’t understand your inability to understand that cats are effectively an apex predator (apart from me of course) that is introduced into an environment where it isn’t wanted, by irresponsible owners who adopt an latch-key mentality to animal ownership.

Not only do I encourage birds directly (by using nesting/roosting boxes and carefully selected planting and coppicing) but I’ve created habitats for everything from microbes up to deer.

I’m more than happy for mother nature and her “circle of life” to crack on and take care of the earwigs, moths, bats, owls… Even sparrowhawks and foxes, as they’re part of the natural food chain. But I’m not happy about some middle-aged divorced woman letting her cute little predator free all day to decimate my woodland, just because she can’t be arsed looking after it.

Cats don’t kill for food – why would they when they’re spoon-fed prime cuts of meat and fish by their bed-wetting owners?? They kill indiscriminately because they have an unquenchable instinct to kill.

I’m not crying Johndoh, just forearming myself with all the necessary information before the local moggies start to die from lead poisoning. 😉

bigyinn – Member

If you want to encourage wildbirds, why not plant lots of hedges in your garden?

My “garden” is an acre of woodland. It has lots of hedges, undergrowth, overgrowth, coppicing etc. As I said, it’s taken a lot of investment to create the best habitat for birds and it’s paying dividends.

Nuthatches and treecreepers are a common sight, great spotted woodpeckers, all manner of tits and finches, goldcrests, and even kingfishers and dippers in the stream. Even had some waxwings last week. 🙂

And I’m being lambasted for popping a nice little lead pellet in its brain for a quick, pain free lights-out. 🙄

I’m looking into the possibility of building a contraption like in that video, but with my HW100 rifle lieu of a hosepipe…

The odd collar dove is a small price to pay. 😉

Helios vid is awesome! That guy is my new hero!!!

One soldier and one cold-blooded murderer. Neither of them progressed from shooting cats… 😉

“Anyone who is accustomed to despise the life of any living being is in danger of disregarding human life also.” Albert Schweitzer, Nobel Peace Prize 1952.

Utter codswallop. I’m a sociopath anyway, so none of these rules actually apply to me, but I’ve been shooting vermin most of my life, as have many people I know. And I only know a couple of people who have killed people on purpose. I haven’t, although people who think it’s acceptable to let their cats roam free would be high on my list…

Just read that article about the silly, hysterical woman whose pet vermin had been shot:

“it’s normally a small step from animals to humans.”

So once I become accustomed to shooting cats, I’m gonna start on those pesky kids scrumping in my orchard… Looks like I’ll be starting a “What JCB” thread to bury all the bodies!

All I can say is that if I shot a cat twice with a high powered air rifle, it certainly wouldn’t be making its way home! Very poor shooting.

The native British wildcat has been extinct for over 150 years… Even I’d struggle to make that argument stick with the local magistrate!

I’m not enticing them, I’m simply replacing an environment that has been systematically stripped from the country by past generations…

Don’t do hypothetical.
What’s the real situation?

Just use your imagination… Maybe start by removing the word “hypothetical”… 😉

Why punish a cat for doing what comes naturally?

If the cat was doing what came naturally, it would be chasing mice in North Africa, not killing goldcrests in my wood!

peterfile – Member

“Hypothetical Cat” sounds like some sort of nerdy superhero character.

Haha, he could potentially dress like a 1950s jazz funk gangster… In theory! And carry an air rifle 🙂

What offense would that hypothetical man be committing if he shot a cat on his own land to prevent it killing rare and protected birds?

Are cats protected by law?

38 isn’t very low Simon, I imagine you have an awful lot of overlap with that set up… I certainly don’t think low gears are anything to feel inadequate about, the best climbers in the world (Wiggins, Contador etc) are all “seated spinners” rather than bar-honking grunters!

That’s a 7800 series… We’ve had 7900 and now 9000 since then. The Dura Ace triple has been consigned to the history books, probably due to lack of demand. Probably due to it being completely pointless. Fact.

I should add that this chainset is still available to buy as NOS, because nobody bought them when they were the current range!

For smaller gaps between gears, and not having to shift at the front all the time. This is important to those that race, isn’t it? It was to me when I did it.

If that was the case, those that race would use triples. The fact of the matter is, those that race don’t need gear inches in single figures so they use doubles.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Part of the Retul fit is all about flexibility and also core and balance. You will be then set up on the bike with this taken into consideration.

Sorry Mullet, I didn’t make myself clear. The system can’t predict where the OP is going to comfortable once he’s got used to riding a roadbike. It’ll fit him based on his flexibility right now, and if he’s used to riding mountain bikes, his position will change as he becomes more accustomed to the road bike position.

I was talking to a guy on the Specialized stand at NEC – I was looking at an SL4 tarmac and he was trying to sell me their Body Geometry fit.

He made a big deal about how their system took into account discrepancies in leg length, shoulder height, any asymmetry. I asked him what he would do to compensate for differing leg lengths… He didn’t have an answer for that!

as i said before. a grown man on a light bike should be able to handle standard 53/39 no bother when paired with an 11 or 12-28.
particularly if 11spd takes most the larger gaps out.

Hmmm… There goes another spanner in the works! Just referred back to the calculator and 39:28 is 36.6″, a compact with a 25 on the back comes out at 37.9″. So I’d end up with a lower gear than I have on my compact set up… Interesting… Confusing… I’m still in 2 minds!

That’s a load of bollocks promulgated by the “look at how hard we are” brigade.

It’s nothing to do with looking hard! The best theoretical position is to have your back perfectly flat so you reduce frontal area.

In the real world, this isn’t comfortable or practical, as things like lungs still need to work. So the goal is to get as close to that ideal without impeding lung function or creating a position reduces pedalling efficiency.

I’d respect you more if you could admit it’s just about vanity.

I’d probably give your argument more credence if Shimano actually made a Dura Ace triple! 🙄

There’s a reason they don’t – modern technology allows a wider range of gears than ever before with a double. Why would anyone want another chainring and loads of overlap?

Unless I’ve been reading stuff wrong there seems to be a lot of people that suggest/recommend having a bike fit prior to purchasing a bike and, it seems, based on the last 20mins of responses that this isn’t the case?

Problem is, assuming you’re a mountain bike rider that hasn’t ridden a roadbike recently or regularly, your most comfortable position is going to be a mountain bike position! So if you try to get fitted now, you’re going to end up with a weird road bike – probably very high front end, short cockpit…

There’s a lot of kidology when it comes to road bike position – at the end of the day, the most flexible part of the setup is the rider and apart from saddle height (which is pretty critical) other variations are very easy to adapt to and they’re not going to affect your performance massively.

My advice would be to buy an off-the-shelf build, put all the spacers under the stem and flip it so it points upwards. Ride it for a few weeks, then lower the bars a bit at a time until you find a position you’re happy with.

In terms of performance, generally, lower and longer is better. But it’s a very uncomfortable position to achieve for a new rider. You’re better spending a bit of time improving your flexibility and easing yourself into a good position. If then you find you’re getting neck or back problems, get a bike fit to iron those out.

Road bikes aren’t comfortable. It’s about finding the best position you can tolerate! 🙂

Olie, I seriously question the measurements. It shows my measurements compared to the average for my height and it suggests that my arms are considerably longer than average which simply isn’t the case!
I even said to the guy, “you find me a bike in this shop that fits the measurements suggested”… He couldn’t.

If the OP is between 2 sizes, I’d always recommend going for the smaller size – I prefer nippier handling frames, and if you’re trying to scale a big bike down to fit, it’s probably not going to handle as well…

cynic-al – Member

Seriously why can’t people use triples?

Erm… Because they’re shite? There’s so much overlap between the ratios, it’s completely unnecessary on a race bike! The only time you could justify it is on a tourer where you might need a 25″ gear to haul a pannier-laden bike up a steep climb. And even then, you should really MTFU…

I had a full bike fit last week – not retul – and to be honest, the recommendations are utter tosh. It said I should be riding with a 140mm stem on my current set up – it’s currently VERY long and low with a 120!

I was being sized up for my new frame and there was very little useful info apart from confirming that I use the right crank-arm lengths and bar width… But I knew that already!

If you’re an experienced rider that wants to fine-tune position for optimum power and efficiency, it *might* have a value, but it’s not going to spit out a printout of the perfect bike.

I’m kind of hoping that it’ll be able to tell me pretty much exact sizes and geometry to look for in order to get a bike that fits properly and (as much as possible) comfortable.

It won’t. To be honest, you’d be far better getting a bike in the correct size according to manufacturer’s sizing chart and riding it for a while to get used to the position.

No fitting systems take flexibility into consideration, and if you’ve not had a road bike before, you’re not going to feel very comfortable for a while!

And modern road bikes are very flexible in terms of fit. If the frame is the correct size for you, you can get a wide range of positions by changing stems, spacers etc.

52:36 11-28 sounds the obvious answer considering you want to use it over a range of events. I can’t believe a 52:36 change is noticeably worse than a 52:38 change and I can’t see any other downsides, you might even save a gram or two in weight :p

I think this is correct – 2 teeth on the front will make a minimal difference to the actual diametre of the rings so front mech shifting shouldn’t be affected. The 2013 DA front mech is supposed to be world leading in terms of shifting, so it’s going to be an improvement on the older Ultegra/Dura Ace combo I’m using at the moment.

I tend to find that I sprint up to speed on descents, then tuck. The quicker you get up to top speed, the quicker you get down.

Plus, I get a perverse pleasure out of beating my max speeds!

I think you’re right DJ, but I don’t need to go as far as a compact to get the ratios, so either 52/36 or 52/38 is going to do the job.

And yes, I’m perfectly comfortable spinning at well over 120, I don’t want to be doing that at over 50mph!

None have steeper climbs. That’s why the bike is set up like that. I train on hilly roads though.

The Cervélo I’m building won’t be used for crits, I’ll keep the old Giant for that job, but I want it to be a do-it-all bike for sportives, Mallorca, Alps etc…

Interestingly, I’ve just found this calculator and worked out that I’d be doing 120rpm at just over 45mph with my 53:11 setup.

If I go to 52:11, I’d be doing 44.4mph at the same cadence…

I think I can live with that! I’ll just have to tuck a bit lower to shake of Thor 😉

Mudsux, firstly, I’m talking about the 11-speed 2013 DA groupset so the ratio gaps are pretty similar to the 11/25 10 speed I’m running.

Where have you got the 140rpm figure? Is there a calculator for this? As I said, I pedal up to about 48mph. Anything over that (or less depending on the road) I would certainly be tucked.

I’m not sure what point you’re making with your reference to the TdF rider, I’m sure he achieved top speeds of over 50mph too. We all have to slow down a bit for corners, pros and amateurs.

alex222 – Member

I accept I misread it but you are being a bit of a dick really.

This coming from the person that has tried to argue the toss with several people when he’s wrong?? I started this thread to canvass opinion about something I needed help on, not to listen to some silly prick trying to belittle people with ill-conceived nit-picking. Jog on.

druidh – Member

52/39/30 : 11/23 (Just saying like….) = 35.2″ – 127.6″

Druid, wash your mouth out. In fact, don’t anybody *EVER* mention the word “triple” on a thread about Dura Ace!!! 🙂